Ebike specific Chain

[tomjasz]

I learned Wipperman Connex won't run on narrow wide chainwheels, like Lekkie, race face and eclipse. Truly a quality chain. Very disappointed. Since 132l are a pain to find and buying two and making a chain gets pricey, I've taken to buying cheap Sunlite, and keeping a spare and smallest chaintool I could find in my battery bag. Got a good deal on 5. I bought a chain measuring tool and staying on top I've not been burned on a ride. BUT I'm a casual rider, I still would have liked a quality chain. There are other chainwheels but offset issues with DIY mid drives.

 

[rmasa]

I finally just gave in and purchased one of those chain stretch gauges.

I will now trust it, and replace the chain when the gauge indicates it.

 

[Maxwellian]

Still haven’t seen anything specific as to what the actual difference on an “ebike specific” chain is, on this thread or anywhere else. Stronger rivets? Better hardening on the wear surfaces?

Reading this thread though, I think I can shed some light on a couple things.

The Bosch performance/Cx chainrings are tiny, but there is a 2.5x gear ration to the crank, so it pedals like a ring 2.5x as big.

On mid drives with a small chainring, it spins faster, so similar chain tension as a mid drive with a full size chainring. But, smaller chainring means more bend in the chain, so the load is carried by fewer rollers, and the higher speed means the chain bends and straightens more often, so it should wear faster. This is despite a lower chain tension than you might have on say, an unassisted bike with a triple crank. The common mid drives put out 70 or 80 Nm. A 200 pound dude standing on a pedal is 150 Nm, before you add any dynamic movement or pulling up on the handlebars.

So, I’d wager these mid drives aren’t killing chains through shear force, they’re killing them with small chainrings, speed, consistently high loads, and often too much force while shifting.

 

[indianajo]

There is imitation steel containing lead and copper from scrap. The ****ese ATA freewheel that came with my $179 hub motor probably is made of that. Based on my experience with co-workers harbor freight "tools". There is medium quality real steel containing only iron and carbon tempered properly. In my experience Suntour parts from ****wan are made of that. Shimano cheaper line freewheels sold on discount store cycles are probably that. There are better steels maybe containing alloys of chromium, vanadium, or manganese. The highly reputed KMC chain may be that. SRAM and shimano premium cassettes are definitely tougher than the shimano grocery store parts.
A 250 W mid drive motor may consistently be applying more force to the chain than the average rider. 7 speed bikes may have decent life, but 11 speed e-bikes may not. The premium 11 speed chains used by road bikers are lasting about 1000 miles or 1500 KM. See the reports on roadbikereview.com which is passionately non-electric. The 10 and 11 speed chains are narrower than the 7-8 speed chain and more prone to wear. The wider chain used on 5 speed freewheel on a 1986 Schwinn mountain bike, I got ~8000 miles out of a one, without electricity.

 

[tomjasz]

Still haven’t seen anything specific as to what the actual difference on an “ebike specific” chain is, on this thread or anywhere else. Stronger rivets? Better hardening on the wear surfaces?

Reading this thread though, I think I can shed some light on a couple things.

The Bosch performance/Cx chainrings are tiny, but there is a 2.5x gear ration to the crank, so it pedals like a ring 2.5x as big.

On mid drives with a small chainring, it spins faster, so similar chain tension as a mid drive with a full size chainring. But, smaller chainring means more bend in the chain, so the load is carried by fewer rollers, and the higher speed means the chain bends and straightens more often, so it should wear faster. This is despite a lower chain tension than you might have on say, an unassisted bike with a triple crank. The common mid drives put out 70 or 80 Nm. A 200 pound dude standing on a pedal is 150 Nm, before you add any dynamic movement or pulling up on the handlebars.

So, I’d wager these mid drives aren’t killing chains through shear force, they’re killing them with small chainrings, speed, consistently high loads, and often too much force while shifting.

There'splentyout there, easily Googled. https://www.connexchain.com/en/e-bike-chains.html

 

[tallpaul]

My Bosch Performance S Haibike came with a Shimano chain. 1200 miles later I replaced it with the KMC X10e chain. After another 1200 miles or so had to replace it again. Second KMC X10e needs replacing now at, you guessed it, 1200 miles again. So no difference.
I like the KMC X10e as it has a removable connector so I can take the chain off for thorough cleanings.
I use a chain stretch measurement gauge, and also listen to the noise the chain makes as it ages.
Wish I could get more miles out of these chains. Maybe a Gates belt in my future?

 

[Patdown45]

Rmasa,

If looking to replace your chain, the benefits of going with an ebike specific chain really makes a difference if you ride with a mid drive system. If you ride with a Bosch mid drive, there will be much higher torque being applied to the chain vs a rear hub system.

If you ride with a rear hub system then a basic chain will be OK. With that being said the less expensive parts typically are made from materials that will wear quicker and will typically get a shorter lifecycle then a higher quality chain. Now keep in mind that a cheaper cassette / freewheel will also be a wear point. So ideally you want to match similar qualities there to get fairly close wear patterns. No point getting a high quality cassette and throwing on the cheapest chain. With a high quality chain/cassette setup riders will typically experience longer life, smoother shifting and a generally nicer ride. Keep in mind that the whole drive train needs to be properly maintained and lubricated. A bent, dirty worn out derailleur wont make a high quality chain / cassette feel better... ;-)

Now, here is where I feel and know that an ebike specific chain makes a difference. If you use a basic chain like an HG40 for example on a Bosch mid drive then you're probably going to experience a chain snap at one point. This is due to the high torque being applied to the chain from the drive unit. If you have a great bike with a quality cassette for example and put on a basic chain like the Shimano HG40 you're probably going to spend more $$$ in the long run then dishing out the extra cost of buying a better quality chain. The accelerated wear will certainly eat away at the cassette and front chain ring much quicker assuming it doesn't snap before that. If you have a shop do your service work for you, you'll probably spend more in the long run then biting the bullet and getting yourself a decent chain / cassette set up. We have clients who use a good quality Shimano / SRAM cassette paired with a CONNEX / KMC ebike chain and also a CONNEX chainring and have increased their life cycle already to the point where we have not been able to determine by how much as the setup has not been due for replacement yet. I am sure they will be ahead when they calculate in the labor savings and I know they are ahead if they calculate their time for not having to bring the bike to the shop for service.

If you ride offroad and ride hard with a mid drive like Bosch, you need the best (chain, cassette, chain ring etc....) that you can afford. Trying to save a couple of $$ on a mountain bike when going offroad will just cost you more and ruin your day eventually. When you shift frequently under load this is really where a high quality chain like the CONNEX or KMC E series combined with an upgraded chain ring makes a difference.

In summary a rear hub is more forgiving than a mid drive so you can use pretty much anything. Ride more aggressively or want the convenience of getting longer life, upgrade to the higher end ebike specific components.

hope this helps,


Will
shop.scooteretti.com

So true I just snapped my chain after a 6 mile portion of my commute. Even though I had a chain tool, just couldn't get the pin pushed back before it would just fall out....walked it home...no quick link....lesson learned and I have a bbshd custom build

 

[pmcdonald]

The chain on my mid drive is at the 1,000km mark and, while well shie of the 0.75 wear on my gauge, is slipping the odd pedal stroke from time to time. I'd like to have a replacement on standby.

The current chain is a 10 speed KMC e10 but they've been out of stock at my go-to stores for months now. Can anyone recommend other good performing chains? The cassette is a Shimano HG50 11-36T with a 36-48T dual ring at the front.

 

[Sierratim]

The chain on my mid drive is at the 1,000km mark and, while well shie of the 0.75 wear on my gauge, is slipping the odd pedal stroke from time to time. I'd like to have a replacement on standby.

The current chain is a 10 speed KMC e10 but they've been out of stock at my go-to stores for months now. Can anyone recommend other good performing chains? The cassette is a Shimano HG50 11-36T with a 36-48T dual ring at the front.

I get good results with Shimano CN HG701 chains for my 11 speed mid-drive Vado 5. I believe the 10 speed version of this chain is the CN 6701.

By good results I mean ~1,000 miles before getting close to 0.5% stretch, the recommended limit for 11 speed chains.

The recommended stretch limits are just that, recommendations. I change chains early to avoid excessive wear to more expensive drive train components. If you're feeling chain slip, it's time, even if you're not at 0.75% yet.

 

[pmcdonald]

I get good results with Shimano CN HG701 chains for my 11 speed mid-drive Vado 5. I believe the 10 speed version of this chain is the CN 6701.

By good results I mean ~1,000 miles before getting close to 0.5% stretch, the recommended limit for 11 speed chains.

The recommended stretch limits are just that, recommendations. I change chains early to avoid excessive wear to more expensive drive train components. If you're feeling chain slip, it's time, even if you're not at 0.75% yet.

Thanks @Sierratim, appreciate the recommendation. It's slipped virtually since kilometre zero, so I must have inadvertently damaged it when swapping tyres after purchase.

 

[Sierratim]

Thanks @Sierratim, appreciate the recommendation. It's slipped virtually since kilometre zero, so I must have inadvertently damaged it when swapping tyres after purchase.

Shouldn't slip at 0Km. Does it seem to slip at the cassette? Derailleur adjustment can cause what feels like slipping. Does the derailleur move freely? I lube all the pivot points on mine each time I clean the chain, every 300 miles or so. Does it shift into the largest and smallest cogs smoothly? Shift cable stretch can cause derailleur performance to drift over time making shifting less smooth. The barrel adjuster at the shift lever or on the derailleur can compensate for this. Try turing it 1/2 turn CCW. If it's a bit better, repeat until the slipping stops.

This Park Tool video discusses the details of derailleur adjustments;

.

Chain length could also be a contributing factor. This Park Tool video discusses how to check it;

.

Good luck.

 

[pmcdonald]

I counted my current KMC e10 links today and came to 122. Most of the 10 speed chains I see are 116 links and stock of the e10 is proving hard to track down (affordably). Newbie question: should I be looking to match the current number of links or is there some leeway there?

 

[Hasaf]

I have recently changed my commuter eBike to a NuVinci. This means that I do not need to deal with a derailleur. As such I am switching to a BMX chain. I have done this before and I just have more faith in a chain where the pins extend a little past the plates on the chain.

 

[Sierratim]

I counted my current KMC e10 links today and came to 122. Most of the 10 speed chains I see are 116 links and stock of the e10 is proving hard to track down (affordably). Newbie question: should I be looking to match the current number of links or is there some leeway there?

For best results the number of chain links should be the same over the life of your bike. My vado uses a 120 link chain. Many adult size bikes use 116 links, but these wouldn't work well on my ebike. I suggest confirming the chain length as per the Park Tool video. It'll probably match tour original 122 link chain. Replace with the confirmed length. For 122 links you can go longer and shorten with your chain tool. 126 links is fairly common.

 

[pmcdonald]

Thanks for the reply @Sierratim! A replacement 10 speed 122 link chain is proving challenging to source.. Any reason not to use an 11 speed chain on a 10 speed cassette? I've found stock of the KMC e11 but nothing approaching affordable of the KMC e10.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Thanks for the reply @Sierratim! A replacement 10 speed 122 link chain is proving challenging to source.. Any reason not to use an 11 speed chain on a 10 speed cassette? I've found stock of the KMC e11 but nothing approaching affordable of the KMC e10.

too thin. the e bike chains are about the same price about 45.00 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A7E38IO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I get about 2500 miles from one. but the lmc I got 1500

 

[pmcdonald]

too thin. the e bike chains are about the same price about 45.00 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A7E38IO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I get about 2500 miles from one. but the lmc I got 1500

Thanks for the reply. That one is proving not much easier to track down (affordably) here in Australia! I see it's 118 or 138 links. I'm after 122 so I'd need to shorten it and buy a link - Shimano seem a bit stingy with supplying links.

I only ask about the 11 speed chain because a lot of threads I read suggest it'll be fine. The 11 speed in question is ebike specific and I'm just a commuter humming along without too much strain on the drivetrain.

 

[byunbee]

My Bosch Performance S Haibike came with a Shimano chain. 1200 miles later I replaced it with the KMC X10e chain. After another 1200 miles or so had to replace it again. Second KMC X10e needs replacing now at, you guessed it, 1200 miles again. So no difference.
I like the KMC X10e as it has a removable connector so I can take the chain off for thorough cleanings.
I use a chain stretch measurement gauge, and also listen to the noise the chain makes as it ages.
Wish I could get more miles out of these chains. Maybe a Gates belt in my future?

Just wanted to ask whether you back off from pedaling as you shift gears. For example if you’re pushing constant force by pedaling hard this force on the chain you are putting your effort + the power of the motor on your chain, which may explain premature wear.
Also, if you have a lot of inclines in your commute, that’ll also wear down your chain faster. For most people even non-bike chains should last 2-3k miles I would think.

 

[Sierratim]

Thanks for the reply. That one is proving not much easier to track down (affordably) here in Australia! I see it's 118 or 138 links. I'm after 122 so I'd need to shorten it and buy a link - Shimano seem a bit stingy with supplying links.

I only ask about the 11 speed chain because a lot of threads I read suggest it'll be fine. The 11 speed in question is ebike specific and I'm just a commuter humming along without too much strain on the drivetrain.

I don't believe you'll find a 122 link chain. You'll need to go longer and shorten it to the length you need. I've found good prices from the online Euro bike shops. They ship to most locations for a flat price; $10-$20. It's definitely worth while if you need a couple of things.

I haven't tried an 11-spd chain on a 10-spd setup but I used to run 9-spd chains on our original 8-spd DIY ebike conversions. No problems, just a bit 'crisper' shifting. You may find the same for an 11-spd chain in a 10-spd set up. I wouldn't guarantee it, but it's a small risk IMO.

 

[pmcdonald]

I don't believe you'll find a 122 link chain. You'll need to go longer and shorten it to the length you need. I've found good prices from the online Euro bike shops. They ship to most locations for a flat price; $10-$20. It's definitely worth while if you need a couple of things.

They're out there (https://www.wiggle.com.au/kmc-e10-10-speed-e-bike-chain), it's just super hard to find stock anywhere for under $100 our money. Even the alternatives posted here are close to $100 once shipped to Australia. That's a lot for a chain. I'll plug on with the OEM chain and watch local stock levels like a hawk.

I'm guessing running a 116 or 118 link chain as a replacement is a Very Bad Idea?