DRT Disaster Relief Trials

Here is another idea of Taleb's. Things that have been around, are most likely to be around. We can still recognize a spoon from Pomeii. If something has been around for one thousand years, it is most likely to be around in another one thousand years. If a new tech has been around for six months, it is likely to be around in six months. People making sourdough at home has been around for about ten thousand years. People riding horses about the same, ten thousand years. The Blackberry was around for maybe six years. Just because something is new such as the microprocessor does not make it better or be useful in the future than say having a local Blacksmith. The safety bicycle has been around and useful for almost 150 years.
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Many skills are disappearing like the old fashioned black smith ... growing vegetables, raising chickens, building anything with just lumber and hand tools, telling the weather by reading the sky, even using a map and compass. Anyway, I was testing out Bard (Google's new AI) while reading this thread so I asked it about batteries in EMPs and Carrington events. It is very long winded and wishy-washy but I will try to copy and post it on my next comment here.
 
PedalUma said:
Here is another idea of Taleb's. Things that have been around, are most likely to be around. We can still recognize a spoon from Pomeii. If something has been around for one thousand years, it is most likely to be around in another one thousand years. If a new tech has been around for six months, it is likely to be around in six months. People making sourdough at home has been around for about ten thousand years. People riding horses about the same, ten thousand years. The Blackberry was around for maybe six years. Just because something is new such as the microprocessor does not make it better or be useful in the future than say having a local Blacksmith.
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You're right, the problem is, that so many people don't have the most basic skills to revert to a simpler society. Back during Covid there were pages across the internet of people posting their failures to just make bread. Many people said they weren't going to try again. Everyone fails at making bread the first time, because it's very much about technique as it is about the recipe. Too many people out there take no time to prepare or practice the skills they'll need to survive. Consider the people out here in NY and NJ when hurricane Sandy came up the coast. People complaining that they have no food in the house. Plenty of warning was given that the storm was coming, and services and stores were probably going to be closed. Many did not prepare and did not have the barest of essentials on hand.

Prepare and practice now, because tomorrow it might be too late.
 
The Bard's answers ...
Me: Will a lithium battery still work in an EMP or Carrington event?

It is possible for a lithium battery to still work in an EMP or Carrington event, but it is not guaranteed. The outcome will depend on a number of factors, including the strength of the EMP or Carrington event, the type of lithium battery, and the condition of the battery.

In general, lithium batteries are more susceptible to damage from EMPs and Carrington events than other types of batteries. This is because lithium batteries have a higher energy density than other types of batteries, which makes them more vulnerable to damage from electrical surges.

If you are concerned about the possibility of an EMP or Carrington event damaging your lithium batteries, there are a few things you can do to protect them. First, you can store your batteries in a Faraday cage. A Faraday cage is a metal enclosure that blocks electromagnetic fields. Second, you can use surge protectors to protect your batteries from electrical surges. Third, you can keep your batteries in good condition by regularly charging and discharging them.
It is important to note that no matter what you do, there is no guarantee that your lithium batteries will survive an EMP or Carrington event. However, by taking the steps mentioned above, you can help to increase your chances of protecting your batteries from damage.


Me: Will a lead acid battery still work in an EMP or Carrington event?

Yes, a lead acid battery is more likely to survive an EMP or Carrington event than a lithium battery. This is because lead acid batteries have a lower energy density than lithium batteries, which makes them less vulnerable to damage from electrical surges.

Lead acid batteries are also less likely to be damaged by heat and radiation than lithium batteries. This is because lead acid batteries are made of lead and sulfuric acid, which are both relatively stable materials.

If you are concerned about the possibility of an EMP or Carrington event damaging your batteries, it is best to store your lead acid batteries in a Faraday cage. A Faraday cage is a metal enclosure that blocks electromagnetic fields.

Me: Is there a commercial battery enclosure with a built-in faraday cage?

Yes, there are a number of commercial battery enclosures with a built-in Faraday cage. Some of the most popular brands include:

• APC

• Eaton

• Tripp Lite

• Siemens

• Legrand

These enclosures are typically made of steel or aluminum and are designed to protect batteries from a variety of threats, including EMPs, Carrington events, and power surges. They are also typically water-resistant and fire-resistant.

The cost of a commercial battery enclosure with a built-in Faraday cage will vary depending on the size of the enclosure, the type of battery that it is designed to hold, and the features that it offers. However, you can expect to pay between $500 and $5,000 for an enclosure.

If you are concerned about the safety of your batteries, it is a good idea to invest in a commercial battery enclosure with a built-in Faraday cage. These enclosures can provide a significant level of protection for your batteries and can help to extend their lifespan.


Me :Will all electric devices that are attached to the grid be destroyed in a Carrington event or only those that are powered on?

Not all electric devices that are attached to the grid will be destroyed in a Carrington event. Only those that are powered on at the time of the event will be affected. This is because the electromagnetic pulse (EMP) from a Carrington event will induce currents in any conductor that is connected to the grid. These currents can cause damage to the devices, but only if they are powered on at the time of the event.

For example, a computer that is turned off at the time of a Carrington event will likely not be damaged. However, a computer that is turned on at the time of the event could be damaged, depending on the strength of the EMP.

The same is true for other electronic devices, such as televisions, radios, and cell phones. If they are turned off at the time of a Carrington event, they are likely to be unharmed. However, if they are turned on at the time of the event, they could be damaged.

It is important to note that the damage caused by a Carrington event is not limited to electronic devices. The EMP can also damage power lines, transformers, and other electrical infrastructure. This can lead to widespread power outages, which can have a significant impact on society.

In the event of a Carrington event, it is important to unplug all electronic devices that are not in use. This will help to protect them from damage. It is also important to have a plan for how you will deal with a power outage. This could include having a backup generator or having a way to cook food without electricity.

And so on ... it must be true if it's from Google, right ?
 
JedidiahStolzfus said:
Just a tip, as you know, it's difficult to store gas for long periods
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Since I've started adding Seafoam anytime gasoline goes into a gas can I've had no issues (except the fifth year of old fuel in a snowblower) and I've never run fuel out of the carb at the end of its season.

I think the can says extends life for 2 years, but I've witnessed better in both snowblower (low annual use) and generator (infrequent use).
 
Art Deco said:
In general, lithium batteries are more susceptible to damage from EMPs and Carrington events than other types of batteries. This is because lithium batteries have a higher energy density than other types of batteries, which makes them more vulnerable to damage from electrical surges.
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I speculate the issue would be damage to the BMS, rendering the battery unuseable.
 
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Art Deco said:
The Bard's answers ...
Me: Will a lithium battery still work in an EMP or Carrington event?

It is possible for a lithium battery to still work in an EMP or Carrington event, but it is not guaranteed. The outcome will depend on a number of factors, including the strength of the EMP or Carrington event, the type of lithium battery, and the condition of the battery.

In general, lithium batteries are more susceptible to damage from EMPs and Carrington events than other types of batteries. This is because lithium batteries have a higher energy density than other types of batteries, which makes them more vulnerable to damage from electrical surges.

If you are concerned about the possibility of an EMP or Carrington event damaging your lithium batteries, there are a few things you can do to protect them. First, you can store your batteries in a Faraday cage. A Faraday cage is a metal enclosure that blocks electromagnetic fields. Second, you can use surge protectors to protect your batteries from electrical surges. Third, you can keep your batteries in good condition by regularly charging and discharging them.
It is important to note that no matter what you do, there is no guarantee that your lithium batteries will survive an EMP or Carrington event. However, by taking the steps mentioned above, you can help to increase your chances of protecting your batteries from damage.


Me: Will a lead acid battery still work in an EMP or Carrington event?

Yes, a lead acid battery is more likely to survive an EMP or Carrington event than a lithium battery. This is because lead acid batteries have a lower energy density than lithium batteries, which makes them less vulnerable to damage from electrical surges.

Lead acid batteries are also less likely to be damaged by heat and radiation than lithium batteries. This is because lead acid batteries are made of lead and sulfuric acid, which are both relatively stable materials.

If you are concerned about the possibility of an EMP or Carrington event damaging your batteries, it is best to store your lead acid batteries in a Faraday cage. A Faraday cage is a metal enclosure that blocks electromagnetic fields.

Me: Is there a commercial battery enclosure with a built-in faraday cage?

Yes, there are a number of commercial battery enclosures with a built-in Faraday cage. Some of the most popular brands include:

• APC

• Eaton

• Tripp Lite

• Siemens

• Legrand

These enclosures are typically made of steel or aluminum and are designed to protect batteries from a variety of threats, including EMPs, Carrington events, and power surges. They are also typically water-resistant and fire-resistant.

The cost of a commercial battery enclosure with a built-in Faraday cage will vary depending on the size of the enclosure, the type of battery that it is designed to hold, and the features that it offers. However, you can expect to pay between $500 and $5,000 for an enclosure.

If you are concerned about the safety of your batteries, it is a good idea to invest in a commercial battery enclosure with a built-in Faraday cage. These enclosures can provide a significant level of protection for your batteries and can help to extend their lifespan.


Me :Will all electric devices that are attached to the grid be destroyed in a Carrington event or only those that are powered on?

Not all electric devices that are attached to the grid will be destroyed in a Carrington event. Only those that are powered on at the time of the event will be affected. This is because the electromagnetic pulse (EMP) from a Carrington event will induce currents in any conductor that is connected to the grid. These currents can cause damage to the devices, but only if they are powered on at the time of the event.

For example, a computer that is turned off at the time of a Carrington event will likely not be damaged. However, a computer that is turned on at the time of the event could be damaged, depending on the strength of the EMP.

The same is true for other electronic devices, such as televisions, radios, and cell phones. If they are turned off at the time of a Carrington event, they are likely to be unharmed. However, if they are turned on at the time of the event, they could be damaged.

It is important to note that the damage caused by a Carrington event is not limited to electronic devices. The EMP can also damage power lines, transformers, and other electrical infrastructure. This can lead to widespread power outages, which can have a significant impact on society.

In the event of a Carrington event, it is important to unplug all electronic devices that are not in use. This will help to protect them from damage. It is also important to have a plan for how you will deal with a power outage. This could include having a backup generator or having a way to cook food without electricity.

And so on ... it must be true if it's from Google, right ?
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Not all of that is true. In particular, the part about devices that are turned off. Many devices now have a "soft off". Ever see a TV or other device that has an LED lit to let you know it's off? Well, it's not off, it's still being powered. To turn it off, you'd have to unplug it, not just hit the off button. Just something that most people should realize and understand but many don't.
 
JedidiahStolzfus said:
Not all of that is true. In particular, the part about devices that are turned off. Many devices now have a "soft off". Ever see a TV or other device that has an LED lit to let you know it's off? Well, it's not off, it's still being powered. To turn it off, you'd have to unplug it, not just hit the off button. Just something that most people should realize and understand but many don't.
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The part about it being from Google so must be true was sarcasm. But I am impressed with the speed at which it can plagiarize information from the web. It's answers about ebikes (that I already know) weren't wrong, just rather superficial, like many forum threads.

And this isn't even version 1.0 yet, it's still beta. Glad I got out of programming before these AIs arrived.

And I put a switched off power strip on anything with a remote, and timers on things that run off sensors, just because it bothers me to have something using electricity when we aren't using it.
 
Roamers said:
I speculate the issue would be damage to the BMS system, rendering the battery unuseable.
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Yeah, I think anything with an unprotected BMS would be toast after a big surge, but I am not an electrician, nor do I play one on the internet. I wonder if even my whole house surge protector on my main panel would do anything 🤔. Maybe it would.
 
Warning: I am about to venture into some weirdness. My great grandfather was a master carpenter in the 1870's thru the late 1890's. He worked on the interiors of Colman train cars in Chicago. It was all done by hand. At age four I started using his tools to make toys. I would pick up a tool and feel a large rough but warm and tender hand over mine guiding me on how to hold and use it. In this way I learned to use and sharpen all the tools in his chest. Some how I knew to put a drop of whale oil on the sharpening stone. In our current world bits and tools are disposable. There is no spirit imbued into them and then past through generations.
 
PedalUma said:
Warning: I am about to venture into some weirdness. My great grandfather was a master carpenter in the 1870's thru the late 1890's. He worked on the interiors of Colman train cars in Chicago. It was all done by hand. At age four I started using his tools to make toys. I would pick up a tool and feel a large rough but warm and tender hand over mine guiding me on how to hold and use it. In this way I learned to use and sharpen all the tools in his chest. Some how I knew to put a drop of whale oil on the sharpening stone. In our current world bits and tools are disposable. There is no spirit imbued into them and then past through generations.
Click to expand...
I don't know where the picture is right now, but I have a section of pegboard in my workshop with tools from my grandfather hanging on it. I don't use those tools, but I have them there for inspiration. He was a blacksmith at a railyard and would just make things without plans. I collect and use vintage power tools. The oldest one I currently have is a jointer from 1958, painted in battleship grey. I have a lathe from 1962 that I'm the second owner. It isn't just that new tools don't have a soul, they're just not around enough to develop one. My 25yr old angle grinder from HD died last week. It did have a good life, got used a lot, but it was done. I can fix it, but the part is $25 and just not worth it.
 
Back to the original idea of using bikes in disasters, i can think of many reasons that the roads would be impassable that don't involve any EMP or even electricity ... a big gasoline shortage during an evacuation from weather disaster ( very likely) would leave roads blocked with out of gas vehicles, a storm or quake could damage enough of a road to block it off, a disabled semi truck likewise, or in a warzone like Ukraine a bike could get through where a car or truck probably can't . Probably many other cases where any ebike would be helpfull, and a cargo ebike invaluable to go for food, water, medicine or whatever. This is an interesting event, when did this start?
 
I do agree with the idea of using an ebike for such situations. It is something that my wife and I discussed when I wanted to buy one. That was part of the reason I went with a cargo bike and a trailer. I regularly go grocery shopping and run other errands with it. I don't like to ride without a purpose, just riding with no where to go isn't really fun for me.
 
Actually riding with with no purpose is the only way I like to ride. I don't yet trust myself or my bike to get me somewhere that I need to be on time. I have done it a few times, and arrived early but stressed and winded each time. Just need more saddle time, I think.
 
Rides don't have to under time constraints. I wanted to ride the other day and my purpose then was to take egg cartons over to my amish friend's farm. They didn't know I was coming, just kind of dropped in to say hi. Saw their new baby (8 kids now) and sat and socialized for a while then rode back. Sometimes I run down to the auto parts store, or go get eggs. Doesn't matter, just so long as I'm doing something productive.
 
I just hit a whopping 200 miles on my ebike. Most of those miles are with my wife on the back. WE really enjoy taking the ebike out for local missions. It might just push me into a cargo type ebike next. We've ridden to the zoo, to a barcade for pinball, groceries, take-out food and going for breakfast. So IF required I know we could easily put it (ebike) to use in a emergency situation.
 
Because I am addicted, I need to ride several times each day. And can often find justification in doing something practical such as getting groceries or visiting some bike shops for parts, socializing, getting a slice which is 1/4 of an extra large pizza, or reading science while drinking really good coffee and talking with diverse people in a beautiful place on the water with my shoes off in the sun. In the DRT I will use a heavy eBike and one of my partners will use a lightweight Gary Fisher. Part of my local marketing is showing by doing while having fun.
 

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Art Deco said:
Me: Is there a commercial battery enclosure with a built-in faraday cage?

Yes, there are a number of commercial battery enclosures with a built-in Faraday cage. Some of the most popular brands include:

• APC

• Eaton

• Tripp Lite

• Siemens

• Legrand

These enclosures are typically made of steel or aluminum and are designed to protect batteries from a variety of threats, including EMPs, Carrington events, and power surges. They are also typically water-resistant and fire-resistant.

The cost of a commercial battery enclosure with a built-in Faraday cage will vary depending on the size of the enclosure, the type of battery that it is designed to hold, and the features that it offers. However, you can expect to pay between $500 and $5,000 for an enclosure.

If you are concerned about the safety of your batteries, it is a good idea to invest in a commercial battery enclosure with a built-in Faraday cage. These enclosures can provide a significant level of protection for your batteries and can help to extend their lifespan.
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Another good reason to keep your batteries, and other sensitive electronic devices, in cheap, readily available surplus steel ammo cans.
 
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