Downgrade Vado SL to Class 1?

[rochrunner]

Without boring you with my reason for wanting to do this, I'm wondering if it's possible for a Specialized dealer to make a change in my firmware settings to change my SL from being a Class 3 (28mph) e-bike to a Class 1 (20mph). I'll check with my LBS the next time I'm there but would like to know if anyone has done this or heard of it being done.

I recall that, back in 2020, I needed a warranty motor replacement on my Vado 4.0. After I picked up the bike, it was working well again but I noticed right away that the assist was cutting off way early. I took it back and they discovered that the new motor had been set by default to the Canadian settings, which I believe is 32kph = 20mph. They were able to easily change it for me, so maybe I've just answered my own question! And the accessory box that came with the bike included a loose "Class 1" sticker...

 

[Calcoaster]

Without boring you with my reason for wanting to do this, I'm wondering if it's possible for a Specialized dealer to make a change in my firmware settings to change my SL from being a Class 3 (28mph) e-bike to a Class 1 (20mph). I'll check with my LBS the next time I'm there but would like to know if anyone has done this or heard of it being done.

I recall that, back in 2020, I needed a warranty motor replacement on my Vado 4.0. After I picked up the bike, it was working well again but I noticed right away that the assist was cutting off way early. I took it back and they discovered that the new motor had been set by default to the Canadian settings, which I believe is 32kph = 20mph. They were able to easily change it for me, so maybe I've just answered my own question! And the accessory box that came with the bike included a loose "Class 1" sticker...

I emailed specialized tech support with that question last year when a friend was considering buying a Vado sl and was concerned with the law disallowing class 3 bikes on bike paths. Spec wrote back saying yes, it is a simple procedure for the bike shop to do.

 

[rochrunner]

I emailed specialized tech support with that question last year when a friend was considering buying a Vado sl and was concerned with the law disallowing class 3 bikes on bike paths. Spec wrote back saying yes, it is a simple procedure for the bike shop to do.

Thanks. I stopped at the shop while on a ride the other day and they also confirmed that.

 

[gpburdell]

Just curious, what trails have officials enforcing class 3 vs class 1 if the rider is staying under 20 mph? Is that enforcement anything beyond checking the sticker?

 

[Calcoaster]

Just curious, what trails have officials enforcing class 3 vs class 1 if the rider is staying under 20 mph? Is that enforcement anything beyond checking the sticker?

I have seen signs on bike paths that exclude class 3 bikes but have not seen any enforcement. I don’t ride on bike paths myself but i can imagine the liability issue if someone was riding an “illegal bike” on a bike path and hit someone.

 

[rochrunner]

Just curious, what trails have officials enforcing class 3 vs class 1 if the rider is staying under 20 mph? Is that enforcement anything beyond checking the sticker?

That's always been my point about the class definitions. If I'm riding at a reasonable speed on a MUP -- which I always do -- why would it matter what my theoretical top speed is? After all, my car's top speed is way higher than the speed that I drive around my neighborhood.

My main reason for possibly doing this is that I want to take the bike on the type of guided tours that I've been doing for many years on my regular hybrid or road bikes. At least two of the companies now permit e-bikes but limit them to Class 1 in order to cover themselves in regard to local regulations. I guess I could just put a Class 1 sticker on the bike, but I really don't want to be dishonest about it and it would be hard to claim ignorance if it were determined that I had put a Class 1 sticker on a Class 3 bike.

 

[Calcoaster]

Makes sense to me. I don’t know if your lbs could give you a class 1 sticker after resetting the firmware but they could give you an official looking statement describing the setting now being to “class 1 standard”. Seems like that would cover you.

 

[rochrunner]

Makes sense to me. I don’t know if your lbs could give you a class 1 sticker after resetting the firmware but they could give you an official looking statement describing the setting now being to “class 1 standard”. Seems like that would cover you.

There was a Class 1 sticker in the packet that came with the bike.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

This would be great for taking my Creo up to the Niagara On Lake area in Canada. It’s so flat there (except at the Queenston monument area) that you really never need to turn the bike on at all, but you’re still riding around on a Class 3 ebike which is not at all legal up that way. Lovely area to ride bikes, though, and why not be able to ride a good one.

 

[mogulman]

That's always been my point about the class definitions. If I'm riding at a reasonable speed on a MUP -- which I always do -- why would it matter what my theoretical top speed is? After all, my car's top speed is way higher than the speed that I drive around my neighborhood.

My main reason for possibly doing this is that I want to take the bike on the type of guided tours that I've been doing for many years on my regular hybrid or road bikes. At least two of the companies now permit e-bikes but limit them to Class 1 in order to cover themselves in regard to local regulations. I guess I could just put a Class 1 sticker on the bike, but I really don't want to be dishonest about it and it would be hard to claim ignorance if it were determined that I had put a Class 1 sticker on a Class 3 bike.

I usually take most of the stickers off my bikes after I purchase them. The lbs didn't tell me what class it was either. I don't remember what class my bike is

 

[gpburdell]

That's always been my point about the class definitions. If I'm riding at a reasonable speed on a MUP -- which I always do -- why would it matter what my theoretical top speed is? After all, my car's top speed is way higher than the speed that I drive around my neighborhood.

My main reason for possibly doing this is that I want to take the bike on the type of guided tours that I've been doing for many years on my regular hybrid or road bikes. At least two of the companies now permit e-bikes but limit them to Class 1 in order to cover themselves in regard to local regulations. I guess I could just put a Class 1 sticker on the bike, but I really don't want to be dishonest about it and it would be hard to claim ignorance if it were determined that I had put a Class 1 sticker on a Class 3 bike.

I'm a strong proponent of personal integrity, so I get your point of view. Though I also think some rules are just plain stupid - if you're not using assist beyond 20mph then your bike's Class 1 vs Class 3 is immaterial. If it were me I'd probably just remove the existing class sticker and see if anyone asks.

I usually take most of the stickers off my bikes after I purchase them. The lbs didn't tell me what class it was either. I don't remember what class my bike is

 

[Allan47.7339]

If you are riding in an area where it's known the rangers check, they will know the various brands and models and if there is no sticker they will assume class III. Same could be true for an event where they have someone watching the bikes at the start, although in the one I experienced, I think they were just looking for stealth e-vehicles because they didn't care about my Creo but only asked about how I was managing the range for the long distance.

I am curious if anyone has ridden both the class I version Creo/Vado SL and the class III versions and how the cutoff at 20 compares with the class III? The cutoff would be very noticeable on a full power Vado where it can do most of the work up to 28 but that is not the case on the SL version for most riders. Due to the physics equations, I can't get my class III Creo close to the top speed limit without a tailwind or downhill and my real limit is generally about 20mph plus or minus other than in a sprint. I have ridden with someone on a different brand class 1 bike that could not keep up with the mostly non-assisted riding group during the times we were riding about 17-18 because she would too close to the cutoff and she would drop behind.

 

[rochrunner]

Due to the physics equations, I can't get my class III Creo close to the top speed limit without a tailwind or downhill and my real limit is generally about 20mph plus or minus other than in a sprint. I have ridden with someone on a different brand class 1 bike that could not keep up with the mostly non-assisted riding group during the times we were riding about 17-18 because she would too close to the cutoff and she would drop behind.

I think I've gotten my SL up to about 25mph a couple of times in Turbo mode but that's about it. Seems like the riding position on a Creo would yield a couple additional mph? My previous bike -- a Vado 4.0 -- would hit the 28mph cutoff but even that took non-insignificant effort on my part!

 

[tom9779]

Speed limiting e bikes to me seems so silly.

Does society generally speed limit cars? No! They can go well above legal limits even on freeways!

What you have instead is just speed limits that people need to adhere too!

With good old pedal power you can go dangerously quick on a cycle path without a motor.(and seemingly should run into the same issues with the law in terms of deemed endangerment?)

All it takes is common sense and the right level of policing.

 

[Allan47.7339]

The question was specific to a Vado SL to for a specific reason. There are other forums for the discussion of ebike power etc please don't start in a technical forum.