DJI’s in the gravel game now I guess?

[Jerome_24]

Saw this Paprika 53 bike running the Avinox motor on Velo.

This Week in Tech: New Shoes from Rapha and Trek, Titanium Cranks, and Maap Debuts New Kit

An updated titanium crank from Cane Creek, a new steel gravel bike from Battaglin, tube tires from Pirelli, and more this week in tech.

velo.outsideonline.com

Did not expect DJI’s first move into gravel to look like… that. Look is growing on me though.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Wonder what the weight will be with the Amflow being lighter then equivalent full suspension trail bikes with 600wh battery is around 19.5kg. Hell of a lot of power for a gravel bike!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Wonder what the weight will be with the Amflow being lighter then equivalent full suspension trail bikes with 600wh battery is around 19.5kg. Hell of a lot of power for a gravel bike!

Exactly my question and comment. I also wonder why make the bike heavier with the suspension fork.

You do not not need the Avinox. Ananda does if you are an advanced Chinese manufacturer (CYCTRON Infini X1)

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Exactly my question and comment. I also wonder why make the bike heavier with the suspension fork.

View attachment 191679
You do not not need the Avinox. Ananda does if you are an advanced Chinese manufacturer (CYCTRON Infini X1)

50mm tyres, mtb geo & front suspension all the rage for gravel bikes in '25 apparently.

 

[jabberwocky]

Their website is atrocious. I couldn't find geometry on it. It doesn't look super relaxed but its hard to tell in pics. Frame design is aping GTs triple triangle.

Full power mid drive and good size battery is a plus IMO. Otherwise, eh. I'll reserve judgement until I see better pics, full specs and geometry.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Their website is atrocious. I couldn't find geometry on it.

There is a small remark this site is before its premiere on April 10th

 

[jabberwocky]

50mm tyres, mtb geo & front suspension all the rage for gravel bikes in '25 apparently.

PLEASE UNIVERSE LET THIS BE TRUE. I mean, except the suspension, I don't care about that. Not that a 30mm fork really counts as suspension.

There is a small remark this site is before its premiere on April 10th

Hopefully the real website sucks less.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Not that a 30mm fork really counts as suspension.

It does in gravel cycling. Usually, a gravel bike has no suspension except for the tyres, as you know.

 

[jabberwocky]

It does in gravel cycling. Usually, a gravel bike has no suspension except for the tyres, as you know.

I know, I'm being tongue in cheek. Its not totally unheard of, the occasional person runs a suspension fork on local gravel rides, but most people just run rigid. I don't really get the point of these super light short travel gravel forks; if you really want front suspension, get a real fork with 80-100mm of travel. If you're a weight weenie you probably aren't running suspension. But everyone makes them so there must be a market.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Honest question: Who decides what constitutes a gravel bike?

Some race sanctioning body? The consensus of the riders who show up for gravel events? Or just the reality of what works best on typical gravel courses?

Are flat bars an allowable deviation from the drop bar norm (the potential aerodynamic disadvantage in rider posture notwithstanding)?

 

[jabberwocky]

Honest question: Who decides what constitutes a gravel bike?

Some race sanctioning body? The consensus of the riders who show up for gravel events? Or just the reality of what works best on typical gravel courses?

Are flat bars an allowable deviation from the drop bar norm (the potential aerodynamic disadvantage in rider posture notwithstanding)?

Its a really good question, and one that doesn't really have a clear answer. Historically there has been a variety of bike categories in that space between road bikes and mountainbikes. Touring bikes, endurance road bikes, cyclocross, monster cross, etc. Gravel is the hot (relatively) new category but its related to all those IMO.

The "average" gravel bike has coalesced as something similar to what would have been an endurance road bike 15 years ago. Start with a general purpose road bike, slacken it slightly, lengthen the chainstays, add tire clearance, tweak other geometry so the rider is a bit more upright and there you go. But there are lots of variations on that theme. I think gravel is in general less rigid about what is "the right way" to do it than the roadie world is. You get gravel bikes that are basically racing road bikes with a bit more tire clearance all the way to mountainbikes with drop bars. Where people ride gravel bikes varies a lot too, from packed cinder that is almost pavement up to MTB-trail.

Personally, its just a bike that I would want to ride on gravel rides. I have my preferences for geometry and rack mounting points and components but I'm not gonna pretend they are universal.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Honest question: Who decides what constitutes a gravel bike?

Some race sanctioning body? The consensus of the riders who show up for gravel events? Or just the reality of what works best on typical gravel courses?

Are flat bars an allowable deviation from the drop bar norm (the potential aerodynamic disadvantage in rider posture notwithstanding)?

just the reality of what works best on typical gravel courses?

This. Mostly!

UCI now sanctions Gravel racing so they might have bike regulations but it seems quite wide choice allowed. Listening to top riders talk about tyre choice, they obsess about it and usually hold off tyre decision until they're arrived at race location and tested the course day before and checked the weather forecast before committing. So anything from 35/38mm for fast rolling smoothish courses to 2.2 inch mtb tyres on rocky technical courses. The problem they face apart from the weather changing everything, is do they risk a fast tyre for the smoother sections or a big grippy tyre for the tech sections? Bit like in Formula 1 with wet tyres, intermediate or dry, wrong choice could ruin the whole race! In terms of flat bars I think the aero gains from drops still rule and I don't know if you are allowed to use flat bars- at the wide tyre 2.2 inch & with front suspension, not a lot of difference between those gravel bikes and XC MTB bikes- with has been commented on in industry.

In Cyclocross (the original gravel racing!) tyres under UCI rules have always been capped at I think 32mm.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I know, I'm being tongue in cheek. Its not totally unheard of, the occasional person runs a suspension fork on local gravel rides, but most people just run rigid. I don't really get the point of these super light short travel gravel forks; if you really want front suspension, get a real fork with 80-100mm of travel. If you're a weight weenie you probably aren't running suspension. But everyone makes them so there must be a market.

Well front suspension seems to be popular with gravel bike brands recently, Giant, Canyon, Ridley Moondraker all have front suspension bikes with clearance for 50mm+, though most reviewers are questioning it as a choice. It's blurring the lines between XC and gravel a bit.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I don't really get the point of these super light short travel gravel forks;

Neither do I. I only am saying 20-30 mm of suspension is enough. Redshift, Future Shock, even Cannondale Lefty.

Honest question: Who decides what constitutes a gravel bike?

It is the riders. Take part in a gravel group ride and you'll understand Jeremy

There are many gravel cyclists riding flat bar. The criteria:

• Light weight
• Fast both on asphalt and off-road
• Gravel bike components, e.g. drivetrain.

There is a distinction made between gravel racing bikes and bikepacking ones.

Hardcore riders (purists, nazis) only accept the drop bar.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Jeremy McCreary:

My brother Jacek is a person popular in the gravel cycling community. He participates in gravel races riding a flat bar Marin DSX 3 gravel bike, and he gets good results, especially in his age category (50+: he is 61),

See him in the front wearing the white helmet. He says: 'I am an MTBer by heart. I have the advantage off-road but no chance when my buddies get on asphalt' They are faster on asphalt because they use the drop bar...

 

[jabberwocky]

Well front suspension seems to be popular with gravel bike brands recently, Giant, Canyon, Ridley Moondraker all have front suspension bikes with clearance for 50mm+, though most reviewers are questioning it as a choice. It's blurring the lines between XC and gravel a bit.

Whats funny is many of the people who were local early adopters of the modern gravel movement rode converted MTB hardtails. Start with a 29er hardtail, swap a shorter stem and alternative bar of your choice (drops, jones H, whatever), rigid fork and slick tires and boom, gravel bike. I know many people doing variations on that in the late 2000s; they often called them monster cross bikes. Some people even kept the suspension fork. So more off-road focused gravel bikes with suspension forks is kinda getting back to those roots IMO.

Kinda depends on what sort of riding you do, but its not uncommon for people to mix gravel and singletrack in my area (especially north of the Potomac in Maryland where there is less gravel and more singletrack). If thats the sort of riding you regularly do, setting the bike up more MTB-ish makes sense.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Hardcore riders (purists, nazis) only accept the drop bar.

Reason enough to show up with flat bars.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Very helpful responses, everyone!

I still find my flat-barred Vado SL 1 5.0 EQ with tubeless 38 mm Pathfinder Pro gravel tires difficult to categorize. I ride it on smaller gravel whenever I get a chance, not just on packed dirt, and it generally does a good job. Also good on pavement.

So here's another honest question: Since flat bars are kosher, what's to stop me from calling this SL a gravel bike? Geometry?

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Very helpful responses, everyone!

I still find my flat-barred Vado SL 1 5.0 EQ with tubeless 38 mm Pathfinder Pro gravel tires difficult to categorize. I ride it on smaller gravel whenever I get a chance, not just packed dirt, and it generally does a good job. Also good on pavement.

View attachment 191687

So here's another honest question: Since flat bars are kosher, what's to stop me from calling this SL a gravel bike? Geometry?

Nothing!

 

[mschwett]

….

So here's another honest question: Since flat bars are kosher, what's to stop me from calling this SL a gravel bike? Geometry?

nothing of course ! but i’d say the manufacturer’s intent (which does telegraph in lots of small decisions about the bike, as well as bigger ones like geometry) matters. the vado SL (and non-electric cousin sirrus, which we have a nice example of) is marketed as a fitness bike, or hybrid, depending on what time you look at the marketing lol. i think that’s a good category for it, it does many things pretty well and is of the most benefit to riders interested in fitness, varied surfaces (hybrid), and not racing.

i think the categories are pretty clear, even if some bikes meet criteria of multiples categories. road bikes (endurance or race) are made for going fast and far on paved surfaces. gravel bikes are made for going fast and far on unpaved roads. the various types of mountain bikes are for riding off road, on steep surfaces (aka mountains.)

as jeremy had stated elsewhere, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a bike that is pretty good at multiple things. i personally prefer focusing on one thing, which is going as far and fast as i can on the many beautiful roads within riding distance of my front door, so i like road bikes and find no benefit whatsoever to things like suspension, upright riding position, tons of bosses, dropper posts, 1x drivetrains, huge tires or knobby tires and so on. but those things are awesome for other situations!

if one wanted to get pedantic, there’s probably a scoring rubric for “what kind of bike is this” in which enough of a certain number criteria from a category or attribute qualify it as a certain kind of bike. they have this for diseases, of which being addicted to bicycles may be one!