Crash today on black ice

[Jason Knight]

Are you guys riding on ice and in cold weather because you have to or you are choosing to do it?

It's that or not ride from mid October through to mid to late April. Having cycling off the table six or seven months of the year is a bit excessive for "But baby it's cold outside" You get used to it eventually.

Our friends in Europe ride in snow and ice all the time... 1) they're used to it, 2) they have the infrastructure and their government aren't asshats about maintaining it.

Where I live those are the conditions they start salting... but sometimes you're out and about before they get there. With the e-bikes it's SO easy to sucker yourself into going faster than you should, or accelerating when you shouldn't...

It's actually one of the entire reasons I wanted a fat tire bike... hell, it's the entire reason. Where I live slippery conditions are commonplace. Unprepared "normal" riders go down from slick leaves in the fall alone, which can be as dangerous as ice and people don't even think about it.

In fact I had a slight skid this past Friday out and about at 3AM, (my favorite time to ride) that if I was on my old non-electric cruiser I would have gone down just like @Eric0976 no question, but the 4" fatties dug in quickly enough and reduced the amount of slip. Advantage of being able to run down at just 5 psi giving me a nice big contact patch. For a second it grabbed hard enough I thought it was gonna toss me the opposite direction, but giving a tap of throttle instead of braking corrected that. A bit like when you're in a skid in a front wheel drive car, you point the wheels where you want the car to go, and drop the hammer since braking is just going to make it worse.

But yeah, black ice is murder for anything on two wheels if you're not used to it, or just get caught unawares. If the temperatures are anywhere below 40F you need to keep your head on a swivel, 'cause who knows how solid the permafrost is set in, the ground being well below freezing due to overnight temps despite being warm outside. There's even a hint of sheen you keep your arse below 5mph, even if it LOOKS fine. Even if it doesn't stop you from going down, at least it'll reduce the hurt.

Like here this morning it was 38F outside, but the overnight low was 20 and there was a layer of frost on everything. There were still hints of icy patches on less traveled roads even around 3 in the afternoon when it was 50 out! Don't let warm air temps in late fall, winter, or early spring sucker you into a false sense of security.

In fact black ice is at its ugliest when you have 40-45 degree morning temps after a freezing night. A fine sheen of water droplets on top of the ice, where it's ALL at or below 32F thanks to "phase change" is just begging to find yourself on the ground in pain.

@Eric0976 hopefully the shoulder heals up quick. 24 years ago I took a similar spill -- down a hill -- and completely shattered my elbow. Shock set in and it stopped me from realizing how badly I was hurt. I felt nauseous for three days and had some "minor pain", slept way too much because it was the weekend, and being an American I didn't want the 'expense" of health care. Monday (crash was friday) I woke up and couldn't move my arm without screaming in pain. Doctor couldn't believe I used the arm like nothing was wrong for so long. Ended up needing the elbow and 2" of bone in each direction from it replaced with metal parts.

Ah, to be young and stupid.

 

[rayray]

Yeah, black ice is no fun. I’m a fair-weather rider, so no risk for me on a bike, but I once hit black ice on on a highway at 55mph while on my way to go skiing (Crystal Mountain via 410, for you Washington folks), and it was “interesting”. Fortunately, there was no oncoming traffic and I was able to recover by steering into the slide. I doubt I’d manage that on a bike.

 

[Eric0976]

My black ice crash was in 1971 and on a motorcycle. Everything started out ok, and there was no ice where the ride began, but a few turns later the bike just went out from under me and we slid across the other lane and into a granite curb. Luckily, there was nothing coming the other way, but I did manage to break my wrist and the front brake lever.

Same here. Clear by the house then got crazy

 

[Eric0976]

It's that or not ride from mid October through to mid to late April. Having cycling off the table six or seven months of the year is a bit excessive for "But baby it's cold outside" You get used to it eventually.

Our friends in Europe ride in snow and ice all the time... 1) they're used to it, 2) they have the infrastructure and their government aren't asshats about maintaining it.

Where I live those are the conditions they start salting... but sometimes you're out and about before they get there. With the e-bikes it's SO easy to sucker yourself into going faster than you should, or accelerating when you shouldn't...

It's actually one of the entire reasons I wanted a fat tire bike... hell, it's the entire reason. Where I live slippery conditions are commonplace. Unprepared "normal" riders go down from slick leaves in the fall alone, which can be as dangerous as ice and people don't even think about it.

In fact I had a slight skid this past Friday out and about at 3AM, (my favorite time to ride) that if I was on my old non-electric cruiser I would have gone down just like @Eric0976 no question, but the 4" fatties dug in quickly enough and reduced the amount of slip. Advantage of being able to run down at just 5 psi giving me a nice big contact patch. For a second it grabbed hard enough I thought it was gonna toss me the opposite direction, but giving a tap of throttle instead of braking corrected that. A bit like when you're in a skid in a front wheel drive car, you point the wheels where you want the car to go, and drop the hammer since braking is just going to make it worse.

But yeah, black ice is murder for anything on two wheels if you're not used to it, or just get caught unawares. If the temperatures are anywhere below 40F you need to keep your head on a swivel, 'cause who knows how solid the permafrost is set in, the ground being well below freezing due to overnight temps despite being warm outside. There's even a hint of sheen you keep your arse below 5mph, even if it LOOKS fine. Even if it doesn't stop you from going down, at least it'll reduce the hurt.

Like here this morning it was 38F outside, but the overnight low was 20 and there was a layer of frost on everything. There were still hints of icy patches on less traveled roads even around 3 in the afternoon when it was 50 out! Don't let warm air temps in late fall, winter, or early spring sucker you into a false sense of security.

In fact black ice is at its ugliest when you have 40-45 degree morning temps after a freezing night. A fine sheen of water droplets on top of the ice, where it's ALL at or below 32F thanks to "phase change" is just begging to find yourself on the ground in pain.

@Eric0976 hopefully the shoulder heals up quick. 24 years ago I took a similar spill -- down a hill -- and completely shattered my elbow. Shock set in and it stopped me from realizing how badly I was hurt. I felt nauseous for three days and had some "minor pain", slept way too much because it was the weekend, and being an American I didn't want the 'expense" of health care. Monday (crash was friday) I woke up and couldn't move my arm without screaming in pain. Doctor couldn't believe I used the arm like nothing was wrong for so long. Ended up needing the elbow and 2" of bone in each direction from it replaced with metal parts.

Ah, to be young and stupid.

My injury does not look as bad. Looks like only the AC joint took a hit, no bone fractures.
Yeah need to be out and about early for work commute (video shows 8:30a but it was 7:30a) and it was about 35F outside. Next time I will be prepared with studed tires.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Here's to a speedy recovery, @Eric0976 !

The streets and paths leading to our Denver home were all prone to black ice -- sometimes all at once. And the number of black ice days per year has been on the rise. Walking the dog twice a day could get pretty dicey. Can't imagine facing that threat on a bike.

Knowing where the black ice tended to form and what to look for wasn't a reliable defense. After 3 falls on the stuff in the last 2 winters, had 3 choices: Get younger bones, get rid of the dog, or age in place someplace else. And the 2nd was no more an option than the first.

And that's why we had to move to a SoCal beach town. Just black ice refugees.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Guys,
It was only the last Saturday. I was on an off-road ride in Winter conditions together with my brother. Snowy, temperatures below and a little above the freezing point. At some point, we shortly got on the pavement. I missed the next turn to the forest, so I stopped my Vado SL, sighed, and reluctantly walked my e-bike for several metres. To discover I was walking on black ice! It was no issue for the Schwalbe Marathon Winter Plus (35-622) to ride but a big trouble to walk there!

Depending on your wheel size, Schwalbe offers Marathon Winter, Marathon Winter Plus or Ice Spiker Pro tyres. I find the MW+ pretty adequate and ride in icy conditions with no fear. However, it is always possible to crash. My last crash on ice happened on Jan 20th this year, zero speed, at the parking lot of the block I live in. Totally safe travel on ice, and a crash on the last 10 metres! It hurt... For a long time.

Last Saturday, return from the ride, gravel, freezing conditions. I felt confident on MW+.

 

[Eric0976]

Thanks everyone for the kind words, dramatic personal recollections, and advises. Take care out there and enjoy the rides!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Get well on soon Eric! You even do not know how much I sympathize with you!

 

[ruffruff]

Good idea. Especially for days with uneven icy road conditions. Yesterday I should not have ridden (was too eager after a week and a half without riding because i had to wait for a new battery). Went back home, took the car to go to work and almost had a car crash!

Oh man!!! That hurt to watch! I went OTB last August and tore up my shoulder! 50% tear of cuff. The problems is when you reach out with your arms- That's what messes up your shoulder....After a couple steroid shots I can finally lift the coffee pot to fill it!

I just spent hours poking studs into 5" tires for winter riding. I icefish and ride my bike out on the ice so I went with super aggressive studs.

Terrene Ultra Traction Tungsten Carbide Stud Kit

The sharpest points, the tallest stud, and the largest surface area create the highest-traction stud on the market. Aluminum base, tungsten carbide tip 100 studs

www.terrenetires.com

Triple traction on both the outside and inside treads for cornering and hex studs in two rows down the middle.

 

[snipechief]

get well soon.
i crashed on a morning commute in Honolulu back in 1987. Early morning with road slicks on my stump jumper. I was trying to negotiate a right turn on a greenlight making a big sweeper turn, and the bike went out from underneath me.(wet crosswalk paint) luckily there was very light traffic at that early time, and the oncoming cars stopped before running me over. I extended my right arm out to soften the blow and it yanked my shoulder out of socket, and I had lots of road rash, and bleeding. I had another 7 miles to ride. Long story short, my shoulder still hurts. I hope you mend well.

 

[dodgeman]

When I watched your video I kept thinking he is going to lose it on this corner, then when you fall it wasn’t where it looked bad. Glad you are not hurt worse.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Shoulder injuries are a recurring theme here. I have my own "bum shoulder from a bike" story. And even if there's no permanent damage, they can be painful for months.

Is the answer to keep your hands on the bars?

 

[fooferdoggie]

tearing your rotator cuff can really last I still have issues 5 years later. my wife with her shoulder replacement has suffered the most that was so bad.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

tearing your rotator cuff can really last I still have issues 5 years later. my wife with her shoulder replacement has suffered the most that was so bad.

Yes, it's a serious injury -- and a cycling risk that shouldn't be taken lightly.

A freak bike accident involving dogs and squirrels left me with a partial tear 20 years ago. Couldn't lay on that side that for 9 months. Last year, a fall on black ice on foot finished it off. The pain and disability took 6 months to resolve.

 

[Jason Knight]

Is the answer to keep your hands on the bars?

I would actually say no. In fact it's that "death grip" on the bars that causes most shoulder and arm injuries on bikes as it increases the chance of a "elbow lock". It can even prevent you from twisting during the fall to an angle where the upper arm takes more of the hit than the shoulder.

It's why if you're riding with your arms out perfectly straight you're at higher risk in a head-on collision or a fall of shoulder and elbow injuries. Every time I see people riding with their arms locked out perfectly straight it makes me cringe.

One of the MANY reasons I dislike straight bars way the **** out in front of me. You know how when adjusting your seat your legs should never hit full extension whilst sitting, and the claim that riding standing up is prone to causing knee and hip problems that the recumbent guys are always talking about? Same idea.

I say "claim" because I have severe doubts about that given how much more work riding a recumbent is.

I think it's much like -- as I've learned the past fifteen years as a website and office accessibility and efficiency consultant -- how people who sit way way back from the keyboard with their arms out straight get a lot of wrist and shoulder pain... same reason that large desktop mounted touchscreens are a nightmare for people with arthritis or mobility issues. Thus why the most ergonomic option is a full size full travel mechanical switch keyboard IN YOUR LAP in a quality office chair, not on the desk. Just like you should throw the mouse in the trash, get one of those trackballs you move with your thumb, and place that on a stool next to you at the same level as your seat. Also helps with arthritis and other issues since my keeping your hands below your waistline you improve blood flow. To the point you can actually reverse some damage.

Ergonomics I actually stole from the F-16 fighter jet. None of the controls in front of you require full arm extension to reach, the most important non-stick controls are actually just above your knees, and the throttle and stick are mounted low alongside your legs. Be even better if your chair lets you recline 45 degrees and you wall mount the display up high.

Biking seems to have similar issues where so much of what people seem to say "aids" comfort not only does the opposite for me, it runs contrary to simple physiology and accessibility norms. More so though is how much of it seems designed to create accidents or even just injuries such as those caused by bad posture or repetitive motion.

Like if you're riding with your arms fully extended, you have to either take one hand off or rotate at the shoulders to steer. Fine and dandy on slow turns where leaning does most of your turning, but anyplace you need to really turn you're likely risking injury to the area of the lower cervical. Or the lean way the hell forward stance that can cause injury to the upper cervical. Pinched nerves in the spine are not a good idea. And that's without figuring what goes on in a crash.

An extended and locked elbow in a crash is going to transfer energy right up through the humerus into the cartilage at the shoulder, possibly up into the scapula and by extension the clavicle. This flexes and deforms connective cartilage "out of spec" and if your ligaments or even tendons are at full extension, combined with the extra force of a direct impact at the shoulder, and that's where tearing of muscles and ligaments start. Sound familiar? Hello torn ACL. Such muscle and tissue damage oft being avoided or minimized if something as simple as the elbow and fingers not being at their limits of motion range or under strain. Such as a locked elbow and a death grip on the bars.

And I know WAY more about this **** than I should. Occupational hazard.

What's the advice from skiing? If you're going down, go limp.

These days I also take the extra precautions of wearing a jacket -- that looks like flannel -- with elbow and shoulder pads hidden in it, and a cut over it with a backplate. I probably should add some pants with kneepads in them. ARMOR UP PEOPLE!

Laugh is my "armor" is so "stealth" I could probably wear it around the workplace and nobody would notice apart from the fact the tartan flannel makes me look like Al from Home Improvement.

I might write an article on Medium about cold weather biking safety. Whilst I've only been e-biking for two years, I've been biking in cold weather down to -9F / -23c for three and a half decades. The only changes e-biking seems to bring to it is how easy it is to go too fast, and the higher wind chill that comes with it. Solution? Don't go beyond PAS1 in unsafe conditions and don't "throttle ride".

Not that I use my throttle for much more than powering out of a skid, or starting when I forgot (or was unable) to downshift before stopping. More so when my top speed in PAS 5 on the Aventure with the 53:11-36 drivetrain is 50% faster than the max throttle speed.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

All the best to a speedy and full recovery.

When it comes to black ice or ice of any kind & you are a commuter, there is no good one-fits-all answer. Studs on paper sounds like a great solution and only if you aired down those tires and still, tip-toed your way anytime you turned your handlebar to anything other than a straight-ahead position. Lean into a turn? Lol, you are going down.

But think about the weather circumstances that would create that black ice. Quite rare within a 365 day calendar. In some areas of the US, it might be something you encounter once a decade. You than have to ask yourself about running on those studs when the road surface is clear and dry or simply wet, for the other 89 days of winter.

And a reply to that scenario might be "Well, I'll just buy a set of studded tires and wheels and just put them on for when the day is snowy or in a potential black ice situation". And realistically, how many people here would go to that end? Myself......if it is snowy or icy outside, the H-Bike Full FatSix stays dry inside the garage. One day, the sun does come out and again, shines!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Black ice may be rare elsewhere, but it certainly wasn't rare in my part of SE Denver.

Large daily temperature swings are the winter norm there. As a result, we got snow followed by a series of melt-refreeze cycles 5+ times a winter. The black ice forms when meltwater wetting otherwise clear pavement refreezes overnight. The cycle can go on for days.

 

[Kayakguy]

Sorry to hear about your accident, Eric.
Crashing on black ice happens instantaneously and is unavoidable. The fall is always face down, and the injuries may hurt for 6 weeks or more.

After I had my first and only black ice crash, I immediately ordered a set of Schwalbe studded tyres. I now ride all my e-bikes on studded tyres in the winter.

When I was still teaching (many eons ago) I rode my acoustic mt bike to school/work almost every day. This was before B. Franklin invented electricity. My final push was up a steep hill following an abrupt turn at a T intersection. As I initiated the turn, I hit black ice and was down like a shot. I picked up some bruises, and tore the knee in a new pair of pants. No traffic, fortunately, and no damage to the bike. As I walked the bike up the sidewalk, I came to realize concrete (the walk) is a lot less slippery than blacktop (the road). They seem equally hard when you fall on them.

 

[username00101]

Well it happened quickly. Busted right shoulder and bike needs to go to the shop. Here is the crash:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ifv16g2kvnwegne/Crash.mp4?dl=0

this is why I'm not riding my bike unless temps are well into the 30s. f*ck crashing on ice.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Moving from Denver to San Diego last August is looking smarter all the time. Just learned today that a former neighbor 2 doors down fell on black ice around Thanksgiving. And she's STILL in a rehab unit 4 weeks later! No other details.

Last winter, the neighbor in between slipped on a patch in front of his house and got a hip replacement out of it.

And I fell on ice there 3 times in the last 4 years -- the first time with a significant shoulder injury. All of us had walked that neighborhood year-round for decades -- in my case twice a day everyday.

Take-home lesson: Experience with black ice isn't all that protective. Cycling's probably no different.