Convert From Derailleur to IGH?

[Directlj]

Hey! Sorry if this is already a thread, didn't see it. Can you take a bike with a Shimano drivetrain, rear derailleur, etc, and convert it to Enviolo or Rohloff with
belt? How crazy/big/expensive would that be if possible? I know, short answer, expensive. Reason I ask is I can get a very nice ebike near cost, so ahead of the game there,
but really would love one of these systems. So some expense to do it is acceptable, in this case. Thanks!

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Yes, it is possible but there will be 'considerations'. Before committing, I suggest assessing whether the challenges are surmountable. Give consideration to…

• alignment of front and rear sprockets
• chain tensioning – belt drive unlikely to be used
• easing-up of motor whilst shifting gears
• axle width
• cable or electric switching
• rim or disc brakes

As usual, 'keep it simple' is the best way to go.
…David

 

[McCorby]

If the frame isn’t designed with consideration for a belt, such as a removable chain-stay, you will be unable to install and remove a belt without significant modification to the frame.

 

[Directlj]

Aha! This is very good info, thanks folks. More to consider than I imagined. I probably should've said off the bat what bike we're talking about, which is the Trek Allant+ 9.9s. I have attached a photo of the chainstay/dropout/rear cassette, etc. So looks like, according to what you both say, David and McCorby, this is a no go? Thanks so much!

 

[reed scott]

I find IGHs intriguing. Maybe some day. But it's one more component on the bike that I can't work on. Or even understand. There is a simplicity factor about bikes that appeals to me. I've already gone beyond simplicity by getting into electric bikes but I don't want to go much further down that road. This has to do with why I believe in Bafang as well. Swapping in a new motor is not hard at all. (see videos) so the complexity at this level isn't scary to me. Now controllers ... and all those wires ... no thanks.

 

[McCorby]

I find IGHs intriguing. Maybe some day. But it's one more component on the bike that I can't work on. Or even understand. There is a simplicity factor about bikes that appeals to me. I've already gone beyond simplicity by getting into electric bikes but I don't want to go much further down that road. This has to do with why I believe in Bafang as well. Swapping in a new motor is not hard at all. (see videos) so the complexity at this level isn't scary to me. Now controllers ... and all those wires ... no thanks.

Off topic, but curious. Why is Bafang easier to swap than others? Shimano for example is very straightforward. See pic below.

- 3 mounting bolts

- From left to right - Display, Speed Sensor, Di2 shifting (optional). You can even swap where you plug the display and Di2 since it‘s a CAN bus and they use the same connector.

- Battery connector (in green)

- Not shown - Mode selector switch and Di2 shifter switch (optional) on handlebar. These plug into ports on the display and again it doesn’t matter which port you plug them into. No need to run additional cables to the motor!

- Easy peasy lemon squeezy!

 

[Directlj]

Not sure what all that has to do with the thread, but thanks for your thoughts on what you find interesting. To sum up, it's pretty clear that you can't put an IGH on this bike. Thanks!

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Aha! This is very good info, thanks folks. More to consider than I imagined. I probably should've said off the bat what bike we're talking about, which is the Trek Allant+ 9.9s. I have attached a photo of the chainstay/dropout/rear cassette, etc. So looks like, according to what you both say, David and McCorby, this is a no go? Thanks so much!

You can install Rohloff E-14 and it has been done before for Trek Super commuter.
Instead of the Cassette, you will go with Rohloff but you will still retain the chain. Yes, the Rohloff with electronic shifting can be done.
Read more here: https://www.cyclemonkey.com/blog/tech-talk-retrofit-your-e-bike-rohloff-e-14-electronic-shifting

It will be a VERY involved and expensive process. You are looking at $2200 to $2500 provided Trek approves this conversion.
You need to have a Rohloff expert work on this project and find the right adapters and make it work to your bike's carbon frame.

 

[indianajo]

The belt is a no-go. Your frame doesn't splice to let the belt in. Your 10 or 11 speed chain is incompatible with the 7 to 8 speed width of sprockets that come standard with IGH.
I swapped a 7 speed shimano derailleur to 8 speed Sturmey Archer S80 IGH. Cost $280 Hardest part was getting the right length spokes to lace the wheel. Spoke calculators are full of lies, and the dealer niagaracycles.com wouldn't tell me anything, as if 26" MTB wheels were some kind of big mystery. 3 orders later I got the spoke length right, but needed 12 mm nipples (extra length) to make up for spoke unevenness. I left the derailleur takeup on the bike so I wouldn't have to break or splice the chain (which took me 3 afternoons and 2 tools manufactured when I finally wore a chain out). I didn't worry about alignment, and it wasn't a problem.
I seriously dis-recommend the Sturmey Archer S80 IGH. Shifter pawl started popping off every mile starting about mile 500. I had to lay on my back on the ground and use a channl-lock plier to wind up the shifter ring every time it popped off - every mile. With cable loose the hub snapped into 8th speed, which was unrideable on flat ground.
The shimano IGH might be better; I didn't buy one. I bought a 24 speed bike with 8 SRAM sprockets in the back. the S80 slowed me down about 10% over the shimano 7 speed on my 27 mile route, averaged over 6 weeks & 12 trips. At least the IGH axle didn't break as a 6 speed shimano rear did. I weighed an exhorbitant 190 lb in those days. I suppose I was supposed to be age 12 and 90 pounds to ride that DIamondback bike. (I am short). And the S80 axle didn't come unscrewed and drop balls all over the road, as a 7 speed shimano derailleur did. *****y design, the cheap consumer grade shimano 7 speed rear. I had to push the ***** of **** home after the balls fell out. Bike will not fit in wife's car, and besides she works in the daylight hours. As long as I was riding a 7 speed shimano derailleur, I bought a 2nd 3/8"x26 nut, sawed it in two to be thin, and countertorqued the nut to the race in the 7 speed axle to keep it from coming unscrewed again, 20 miles from home. Harder than **** to buy a 3/8"x26 nuts, niagaracycle shipped me some random hex shaped piece of junk 3 times. They refunded my money promptly, but that didn't fix the bike. Now I buy parts from modernbike.com, but they don't support Sturmey-Archer much. I rode a SA 3 speed IGH for thousands of miles on my AMF english racer from 1966 to 1981. Was quite happy with the 3 speed IGH, but only enough speeds for flat Houston or Herington, KS.

 

[Directlj]

Terrific. Well, I mean, all this good information, folks, I really appreciate all the contributions above, very quickly learning a whole lot. In my personal case, I'm in a position to get a Trek for a sharp discount, so the decision will be, go for that, you could do a whole lot worse, and deal with the traditional drivetrain and chain. Or spend more than double and get everything I would want. There's a lot one could do with that 4K! Cheers.

 

[Alaskan]

I have a Riese & Muller Homage with Rohloff as well as a Delite Mountain with 11 speed Shimano XT. I also have an Allant +9.9s with a modified drive train which I absolutely love. I swapped out the rear cassette for a 1-51 tooth 12 speed. I also put a Sram AXS wireless derailleur on this bike and finally installed an Onyx classic microspline rear hub on the Allant. These mods added about $1,600 to the bike cost but gave it a performance boost that I just love.

I think the high performance, light weight, modern derailleur setup matches the sporty character of the bike way better than an IGH would.

 

[scrambler]

IGH wise it is a matter of reviewing the dropout and IGH specification, main candidates are Rohloff and Kindernay. As you review that, find out the Belt line possible for the IGH version matching your dropout width (on a 148mm dropout, Rohloff is 50 mm or 52 mm, and Kindernay 45.5mm). Then check what are the possible chain line in the front knowing a sprocket usually has an offset and can be mounted on the inside or outside of the spider. One thing to verify is the possible interference with the motor and frame when getting into small belt lines.

Belt wise, if Gates is a no go (unless you split the rear triangle open), there is the Veer split belt alternative that can be installed for closed triangle.
Split Belt™ Bicycle Belt Drive Kit | Explore Bike Belt Drive Conversion – VEER (veercycle.com)

But their belt is wider (14mm vs 12mm for Gates) which makes them a no go with Kindernay whose configuration does not leave enough space for the belt without it touching either the Hub or the shifter (Gates barely fits in there)

Last issue is the tensioning. Because you have a fixed dropout, you would probably need a tensioner for the belt (unlikely that one belt size would be just right). These do exist but there is nothings really standard, so it may require some custom fabrication or finding one on another bike that can be adapted

 

[tomjasz]

f*ck belts! The only HONEST review, well maybe there are more, from Alaskan reveals the spendy IGH units are just that. Spendy. Nexus IGH and chain for the win.

 

[scrambler]

f*ck belts!

You are entitled to your preferences

 

[tomjasz]

You are entitled to your preferences

WHAT!? I'm not absolutely correct? Agreed!

 

[voidedwarranty]

I and currently planning on an SA SX-RK3 conversion for my Juggernaut HD still in the early stages but have the igh ordered now it's on to chain, tensioner, and spokes. I'll post here with updates, successes or failures.

 

[reed scott]

Please, somebody splain it to me like the dummy I am but it seems to me and IGH is slower than a chain and cassette. A 44 tooth chainring with a 10 or 11 cog high gear results in a comfortable cruising speed of 25 mph with a top end over 30. I don't see Kindernay IGH providing this. Don't know about Rolhoff.

 

[voidedwarranty]

Please, somebody splain it to me like the dummy I am but it seems to me and IGH is slower than a chain and cassette. A 44 tooth chainring with a 10 or 11 cog high gear results in a comfortable cruising speed of 25 mph with a top end over 30. I don't see Kindernay IGH providing this. Don't know about Rolhoff.

I wish I could explain it but some of the math doesn't add up for me either. What I do know is my chainring is 44t and the rear cog will be 18t which means my SA SX-RK3 in 2nd gear (direct drive) is a 44/18. It is said the steps are 33% which makes me think I take 33% of 18 which is about 6 and add or subtract depending on the gear. So 1st should be equivalent to a 24t and 3rd should be equivalent to a 12t. None of this equals the claimed 177% gear range so I'm missing maths somewhere.


Ok so this is straight from SA. My math is way off (not way off but one of those you get the right answer but the work is all wrong) and this now make less sense . Either way I'm going for it. 10speeds is just too much for where I live. There are virtually no elevation changes by me and when there is, they are not steep enough to warrant 10 speeds (on a BBSHD ebike at least)

 

[voidedwarranty]

Please, somebody splain it to me like the dummy I am but it seems to me and IGH is slower than a chain and cassette. A 44 tooth chainring with a 10 or 11 cog high gear results in a comfortable cruising speed of 25 mph with a top end over 30. I don't see Kindernay IGH providing this. Don't know about Rolhoff.

Just came in. I'll let you know how it feels with the BBSHD once I figure out what length spokes I need.

 

[indianajo]

Well, finally! For 50 years the Sturmey Archer 3 speed was gear 1 direct, gear 2 150%, gear 3 200%. With a stocker 46 to 52 front sprocket & 18 rear, 2 was useable only downhill and 3 was useable never. 75%, 100%, 133% are much more useable. Been looking for a 24 tooth sprocket for mine; may be theoretically available but never stocked anywhere. I ride the 45 lb "austrian racer" very occasionally, mostly for the memories. I preferred the Bendix 2 speed coaster brake I purchased & had installed in 1965: had 75% & 100% selectable by backpedaling. That bike was stolen in 1966.