Como 3.0

[Tfbruin]

About 2 months ago, my wife and I bought 2 Como 3.0s. One step thru and one step over. Yesterday we went for our longest ride yet, 42 miles. This was on a paved bike trail with some head wind and elevation gains of 833ft. Most of the ride was done on level 1 with a few times of going to level 2 on hills. What I was told from where we bought the bikes is that this would be no problem for distance. Well it was. My wife at about 165lbs had 4 bars left on her battery at the end. For me at 230lbs, my bike quit with assist with about 7 miles left. That was terrible. There was a head wind on the way back and it was pretty hard to go 7 miles with no power assist. I know that there are some that can do this with no problem, but being older and not the best fit it was very difficult.



So my questions are:



Does this distance sound about right for the Como 3.0?



What would be the best way to be able to do this ride? I also was very easy on the assist during the ride as I saw the battery level going down. I would really like to ride this at a 2 level without worrying about the battery.



Would upgrading to a Como 5.0 be better?



Any help would be appreciated. I love riding the bike and would like to do this ride again with assist the whole way.

 

[Art Deco]

About 2 months ago, my wife and I bought 2 Como 3.0s. One step thru and one step over. Yesterday we went for our longest ride yet, 42 miles. This was on a paved bike trail with some head wind and elevation gains of 833ft. Most of the ride was done on level 1 with a few times of going to level 2 on hills. What I was told from where we bought the bikes is that this would be no problem for distance. Well it was. My wife at about 165lbs had 4 bars left on her battery at the end. For me at 230lbs, my bike quit with assist with about 7 miles left. That was terrible. There was a head wind on the way back and it was pretty hard to go 7 miles with no power assist. I know that there are some that can do this with no problem, but being older and not the best fit it was very difficult.



So my questions are:



Does this distance sound about right for the Como 3.0?



What would be the best way to be able to do this ride? I also was very easy on the assist during the ride as I saw the battery level going down. I would really like to ride this at a 2 level without worrying about the battery.



Would upgrading to a Como 5.0 be better?



Any help would be appreciated. I love riding the bike and would like to do this ride again with assist the whole way.

You and your wife should switch bikes and check range. She only used 20% and you needed 120% for the same bikes and route Your bike is not performing as it should b/c of your weight alone. I am about 200 lbs and ride a new Como3

 

[Speedmerchant]

I can regularity get over 40 miles on my Como3.0 and ride a lot in level 2. Yours doesn’t sound right.

 

[Sierratim]

42 miles, a headwind , and over 800 feet of climbing is a pretty good ride.

I like Art's suggestion re switching bikes and repeating the ride.

You might also check the assist level settings on each bike. The defaults on my Vado were Eco = 35/100, Sport = 65/100, and Turbo = 100/100. I've got them set now to 35/35, 65/65 & 100/100 for better mileage. If your bikes are setup differently they will get different mileage.

You could also try the Mission Control app's Smart Control feature where you can set the ride duraction, distance, or heart rate as well as elevation change and the bike's response to elevation changes and let the bike set the motor power to get you through the ride with a specified remaining battery power. One goal of this feature to minimize 'range anxiety'. There are a couple of threads that discuss this in more detail.

A new Como 5 would also help with 'range anxiety' with it's 600Wh battery, but it's a pricey solution. An alternative that several of us have adopted is to carry a second battery on longer rides. All of the Como/Vado batteries are interchangeable (with up to date firmware) so you can get a 600Wh backup battery and you're good to go.

 

[Tfbruin]

At work right now so I can’t check, but another thing is that her bike seems like it gives assist more than mine. I remember checking the mission control app and the 2 bikes have different tire circumferences. Don’t know if that would make a difference.

 

[Art Deco]

At work right now so I can’t check, but another thing is that her bike seems like it gives assist more than mine. I remember checking the mission control app and the 2 bikes have different tire circumferences. Don’t know if that would make a difference.

Actually check the tires, They are probably the same.

 

[Sierratim]

At work right now so I can’t check, but another thing is that her bike seems like it gives assist more than mine. I remember checking the mission control app and the 2 bikes have different tire circumferences. Don’t know if that would make a difference.

The tire circumference should be the same. This is used to calculate speed and distance, info that the Smart Control feature would rely on. The dealer needs to set this.

Check the MC app for the assist level settings. More assist = more battery usage so it might be more related to rider weight, i.e. less weight = more acceleration with the same motor assist.

 

[Tfbruin]

Ok checked mission control on both bikes.

Hers: Battery 3.20.0, Motor 7.1.1, Display 13.4.0
Mine: Battery 3.20.0, Motor 7.1.1, Display 13.4.0

But
Hers: Wheel Circumference 88.78in
Mine: Wheel Circumference 90.28in

Both bought at the same shop and just 2 days apart.

Tune levels on both are ECO: 35/35. Sport: 35/100 Turbo: 100/100

Does any of that help?

 

[Art Deco]

The 90.28 wheel is what I show and same versions except battery. Mine is ready for an update, but those are good versions AFAIK. And now that you have mission control check battery health under diagnose... check boost settings under tune...

 

[Sierratim]

Ok checked mission control on both bikes.

Hers: Battery 3.20.0, Motor 7.1.1, Display 13.4.0
Mine: Battery 3.20.0, Motor 7.1.1, Display 13.4.0

But
Hers: Wheel Circumference 88.78in
Mine: Wheel Circumference 90.28in

Both bought at the same shop and just 2 days apart.

Tune levels on both are ECO: 35/35. Sport: 35/100 Turbo: 100/100

Does any of that help?

Looks normal. The assist levels aren't an issue.

@Art Deco had a good suggestion with swapping bikes and riding the same route.

Missions Control's Smart Control function might be a good tool for you.

A 2nd battery would be the ultimate answer.

 

[Art Deco]

Looks normal. The assist levels aren't an issue.
SNIP
A 2nd battery would be the ultimate answer.

Nope not the ultimate. I want to set my wheels to 88.78 and get the kind of performance his wife gets.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Although the advice from all participants of this thread is sound and correct, there is a factor that seems to be overlooked: The rider's leg power, especially when combined with the body weight. For a 230 lb rider, the headwind and the elevation gain reported, the 42 - 7 = 35 miles sounds just right with the 460 Wh battery if @Tfbruin isn't particularly fit. I can tell that from my own perspective, a heavy rider with weak legs.

On my rides together with my brother who is 150 lb and strong, his battery use is ridiculously low while mine is extremely high -- on the same e-bike -- and we have had a choice of three of them!

I started my e-cycling adventure at 236 lbs; my legs are ill; I was riding in strong wind season: All these factors made the range very poor, and I started with the Vado 5.0 (600 Wh battery). The assistance levels were set too high in my old model of the Vado. I had no other choice but to buy the second 600 Wh battery and carry it in a reinforced pannier. Since that, I went down to 200 lbs, am fit (as much as my legs allow it as they cannot get really better), learned pedalling at high cadence, got experience, and use Mission Control wisely. Now, I know I can ride for 50 miles on a single 600 Wh battery provided flat terrain with good roads, light wind, warm weather, and my willingness to get tired. Still, I prefer to carry a spare battery just to not be afraid of the unpowered ride home. (My brother can ride for 90 miles on the same battery, and he often rides with the assistance OFF).

I was really shocked when I bought Giant Trance E+ 2 Pro with only 500 Wh battery. Riding that e-bike in hilly terrain and/or off-road makes my range extremely short, while my brother can ride as twice as far on the same e-bike!

The best advice, which agrees with other opinions here, especially those of Sierratim would be:

1. Invest in the 600 Wh Vado/Como battery (the name is UI-600) plus the battery cover (the cover is inexpensive and necessary). Carry the spare 460 Wh one in a reinforced pannier if really necessary. Buying the battery and the cover is still far cheaper than buying the Como 5.0.
2. Use Mission Control actively: The Smart Control feature for Ride Distance does miracles.
3. Try to pedal faster in lower gears. Como can give the Cadence figure in the display. It is necessary to pedal above 70 rpm to improve the bike performance, and it is good for health as well. (Pedalling above 80 rpm is ideal but needs practice).
4. Make sure your tyres are inflated at least at 3/4 of the maximum allowable inflation pressure.

I need to re-iterate the battery range strongly depends on the rider, and there is nothing worrying in the figures given by you @Tfbruin. The 460 Wh battery is just too small for you.

 

[Tfbruin]

Thanks for all the input. What I have decided, call me crazy but I’m going to get a Como 5 ordered and still order an extra battery for the wife’s bike. That way I can take her 460watt battery and use it as a spare. What was said about the fitness of the rider probably holds true here as my wife is more fit than me. What is a little crazy is we have swapped bikes and hers has a lot more power it seems. Must be from the wheel circumference differences in mission control. I will probably seem my Como 3.0 once a 5.0 becomes available. That may even out the size differences between us.

I will also say that I have looked at lots of bikes. And I really feel that specialized makes the best looking bikes. They just seem so stream lined and well put together. I went and looked at several Treks and Bulls and none of them looked as good to me. I know I should probably not base my decision based on looks, but I love the looks of the Comos. I also think they have had the most comfortable riding position for me. We had Specialized Low Rolls before the ebikes and loved them too.

 

[Sierratim]

Thanks for all the input. What I have decided, call me crazy but I’m going to get a Como 5 ordered and still order an extra battery for the wife’s bike. That way I can take her 460watt battery and use it as a spare. What was said about the fitness of the rider probably holds true here as my wife is more fit than me. What is a little crazy is we have swapped bikes and hers has a lot more power it seems. Must be from the wheel circumference differences in mission control. I will probably seem my Como 3.0 once a 5.0 becomes available. That may even out the size differences between us.

I will also say that I have looked at lots of bikes. And I really feel that specialized makes the best looking bikes. They just seem so stream lined and well put together. I went and looked at several Treks and Bulls and none of them looked as good to me. I know I should probably not base my decision based on looks, but I love the looks of the Comos. I also think they have had the most comfortable riding position for me. We had Specialized Low Rolls before the ebikes and loved them too.

Have you been using Mission Control to Map Your Rides? If so you can compare you average assist levels to your wife's. This might confirm Stefan's very valid point.

Your wife's bike feels like it has more power than yours. The 2019 and earlier Como 3s were equipped with the 1.2 motor that develops up to 75Nm of torque. The 2020 Como 3s have the 1.2e (e = economical) motor that uses less power (hence the 'e') but also develops less torque, ~50Nm. It is possible that your wife's bike is a 'new old stock' 2019 Como 3. Your LBS could confirm this.

 

[Art Deco]

Your wife's bike feels like it has more power than yours. The 2019 and earlier Como 3s were equipped with the 1.2 motor that develops up to 75Nm of torque. The 2020 Como 3s have the 1.2e (e = economical) motor that uses less power (hence the 'e') but also develops less torque, ~50Nm. It is possible that your wife's bike is a 'new old stock' 2019 Como 3. Your LBS could confirm this.

This. The 1.2e in my bike is weaker than the regular 1.2. But it does have better range on the smaller battery...If hers has the bigger battery and motor that is probably what's going on.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

What I have decided, call me crazy but I’m going to get a Como 5 ordered and still order an extra battery for the wife’s bike. That way I can take her 460watt battery and use it as a spare.

Wise decision if you can afford it. The Como 5.0 has a powerful motor, the 600 Wh battery is pretty large, and you would have 1060 Wh of battery juice at the beginning of your rides. I can only recommend Ortlieb Bike-Packer pannier necessarily with the Ortlieb Commuter Inserts to reinforce the bottom of the pannier. Then you can safely ride your Como with an extra battery. With the 1060 Wh, I am sure you can make a metric century, or 62.4 miles, (or perhaps even more). I was able to make 75 miles on 2 x 600 Wh batteries and had still energy in the spare one, maybe for 5 miles more. (It theory, I should be able to make 100 miles in the Eco mode but I am too weak a rider).

 

[Brendon@OEB]

Thanks for all the input. What I have decided, call me crazy but I’m going to get a Como 5 ordered and still order an extra battery for the wife’s bike. That way I can take her 460watt battery and use it as a spare. What was said about the fitness of the rider probably holds true here as my wife is more fit than me. What is a little crazy is we have swapped bikes and hers has a lot more power it seems. Must be from the wheel circumference differences in mission control. I will probably seem my Como 3.0 once a 5.0 becomes available. That may even out the size differences between us.

I will also say that I have looked at lots of bikes. And I really feel that specialized makes the best looking bikes. They just seem so stream lined and well put together. I went and looked at several Treks and Bulls and none of them looked as good to me. I know I should probably not base my decision based on looks, but I love the looks of the Comos. I also think they have had the most comfortable riding position for me. We had Specialized Low Rolls before the ebikes and loved them too.

Glad you're getting a new bike on top of your new bikes! I'd say, based on what you've said, that a simple battery upgrade would be sufficient. That said the 1.3 motor is well worth the upgrade. Should you not want the bike as a class 3 the dealer can install the lower speed limit to keep you both riding together.

As Stefan said, the Ortlieb E-Mate is the go to and fits the rear rack well, I use both of them on my shop Vado. Also, a nice note, she can use the battery too since the Vado/Como use the same battery system.

Also, worth noting, the cadence and rider effort play huge impacts to how hard the motor works. If you can run a higher RPM at the pedals (cadence) and utilize the gears in the back to make it easier on the motor. Granted your speed will "suffer" but you can really increase your range.

For instance, riding at full turbo to my shop limiting my rider output at no more than 175 watts, over 17ish (25.5km) I use around 45-55% battery life, but I'm parked at max speed the ENTIRE time, no joke.

By comparison, we did an 80 mile (115km) road ride with a buddy, stuck him on the Vado, us on our road bikes. We took it slow on the climbs but he ended towing us home at 26mph for the last few miles.

Range is a tricky bugger, slow your effort and use the gears at the expense of speed and these bikes can do wonders! Want to go fast? Put in the effort or limit the range.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

the Ortlieb E-Mate is the go to

E-Mate is good but the battery barely fits in it. I said Bike-Packer with Commuter Inserts.

my rider output at no more than 175 watts

Mine is only 84-100 W, making the ride slower, and reducing my battery range.

 

[Brendon@OEB]

E-Mate is good but the battery barely fits in it. I said Bike-Packer with Commuter Inserts.


Mine is only 84-100 W, making the ride slower, and reducing my battery range.

Sorry for the mix up regarding panniers.

Understood regarding rider output, I also know you're working on your cadence too which makes a huge difference.

Bottom line, bigger battery should work, since OP is getting a 5.0 they'll have the best of both worlds!