Co-op rules against ebike

[lizzie]

Hi I just bought 2E bikes and have taken possession of one already. I stopped in my co-op office to find out about the likelihood of it being stolen from my garage I was immediately told that the bikes can’t be stored in the garage.
I explained I would be keeping my battery in my apartment but was told they can’t be stored in the apartment or the garage and what kind of battery is it. I immediately answered that that wasn’t the kind of battery I had but later I called my shop and was told that the lithium ion battery is in fact what I have. I own my co-op but of course that just means I have shares and I do have technically a rental lease so I won’t be approaching them to explain anything about the battery. I have a momentum which is made by giant but maybe this explains why there is no information online. Can A ny co-op bar me from storing my battery in my apartment? And is This fire a legitimate concern? The bike shop owner said that it is not with my bike being from giant but why is giant using the name momentum and not posting anything about these bikes.

 

[Gordon71]

Do you or any others have laptops, power drills, and/or anything else with a battery in their apartments?

 

[lizzie]

ummm yeah? kind of off topic... I guess you are addressing if this is a legit concern as opposed to my potential issue with board. seems im good with my battery as momentum not likely a fly by night although giant is flying very low with this and not being forthcoming with a manual. specs sort of available. I will not overcharge. and will hope the battery is not defective and not be regretful about spending 2500 instead of 1000..?

not sure how to address the board. this is not in my lease. for now I will avoid the person in the office employed by our managing agent who Is employed by the shareholders including me? for now it seems nobody is coming at me and I guess I will try to keep a low profile with my bike.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Do you or any others have laptops, power drills, and/or anything else with a battery in their apartments?

To be fair, almost any e-bike battery is much larger than any laptop or power tool battery.

I would do everything I could to ensure safe storage of the battery, both when you are charging it and when you are not. There have been lots of good discussion threads on how to accomplish that here and you could borrow or take inspiration from all the ideas we have shared.

There have been a crazy number of battery fires in recent years, and there isn't exactly what I'd call good information or education about best safety practices. My own opinion is that properly manufactured batteries which are properly used, not abused, and appropriately stored pose zero risk.

 

[lizzie]

agree, this could be legit concern with dyi and random batteries and companies. I should clean up my post. at this point, im more concerned with the rules, can they do this. and now what 5k later and my heart gone head over heels keeping the bike

 

[lizzie]

To be fair, almost any e-bike battery is much larger than any laptop or power tool battery.

I would do everything I could to ensure safe storage of the battery, both when you are charging it and when you are not. There have been lots of good discussion threads on how to accomplish that here and you could borrow or take inspiration from all the ideas we have shared.

There have been a crazy number of battery fires in recent years, and there isn't exactly what I'd call good information or education about best safety practices. My own opinion is that properly manufactured batteries which are properly used, not abused, and appropriately stored pose zero risk.

don't want to get carried away with the fires but I did a search and came up with almost nothing and def not "crazy number". links please?
but again im reasonably comfortable with this not being an issue with due diligence. now..what about rules against storing bike or battery in apartment or garage. wtf now what. lawyer up?

 

[rob feature]

To be fair, almost any e-bike battery is much larger than any laptop or power tool battery.

Fair enough. Anybody there have an electric car?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

don't want to get carried away with the fires but I did a search and came up with almost nothing and def not "crazy number". links please?
but again im reasonably comfortable with this not being an issue with due diligence. now..what about rules against storing bike or battery in apartment or garage. wtf now what. lawyer up?

I don't know. Articles like these make me think otherwise:

Powerless Tenants and Landlord Raised Alarms About E-Bikes That Sparked Midtown Blaze

Eviction case sought to remove tenants from luxury 429 E. 52nd St. after complaints of “motorcycles” ridden and parked in halls. City Council is now considering bills to prevent destructive lithium-ion battery fires.

www.thecity.nyc

Where and Why E-Bikes Catch Fire in NYC — And What Can Be Done About It

Most of the battery-related fires take place in working-class residential neighborhoods in Queens, Brooklyn and The Bronx.

www.thecity.nyc

From the last article:

The number of e-bike-related fires took off during the pandemic, coinciding with the growth in riders using battery-powered devices to deliver takeout via apps such as GrubHub and DoorDash. In 2020, the Fire Department determined that 44 fires were caused by faulty e-bike batteries; in 2021 there were 104. So far this year there have been 191.

191 fires in 2022? That seems like a crazy number to me. Also I have no reason to think NYFD would be exaggerating the number of e-bike battery fires.

 

[lizzie]

more off topic. anyway, we. have a few charging stations for cars and at our last yearly meeting, the topic of repairing or making functional the charging stations came up. there was discussion (and a Tesla employee present) about how all cars by a certain date will be electric and we will need charging stations. still so far off topic. thanks though

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Fair enough. Anybody there have an electric car?

Yeah, but with an electric car you could sue both the owner, who presumably has liability insurance, and the manufacturer if they sold a defective car. Getting made whole by suing a fly-by-night bicycle manufacturer or shade-tree tinkerer seems damned unlikely to me.

 

[rob feature]

Yeah, but with an electric car you could sue both the owner, who presumably has liability insurance, and the manufacturer if they sold a defective car. Getting made whole by suing a fly-by-night bicycle manufacturer or shade-tree tinkerer seems damned unlikely to me.

You have to excuse me if I find that a bizarre train of thought - peace of mind because you can sue someone.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

You have to excuse me if I find that a bizarre train of thought - peace of mind because you can sue someone.

Yes, it is bizarre, but if you've ever dealt with an HOA or Co-op board you would understand. A lot of the thought processes in that world are bizarre.

 

[rob feature]

I get it, but at the same time, the hypocrisy...

OP, did you sign any sort of document preventing you from storing an ebike there? Or some sort of document that says they can modify the original document at will?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

@lizzie, I think your Least Bad option is to build a fire-safe area in your apartment to store and charge the batteries at your own expense, and get the local Fire Marshal to inspect it and sign off on it. That way you'd at least have something to go to your Co-op board with and argue your case.

 

[lizzie]

I get it, but at the same time, the hypocrisy...

OP, did you sign any sort of document preventing you from storing an ebike there? Or some sort of document that says they can modify the original document at will?

ii have to review my lease that I signed at closing, got to find it. I feel I would remember this, and I don't think I did. and regarding peace of mind, I agree re insurance and deep pocket and liability. where there is someone standing behind a product it is more or different that peace of mind (what is that exactly) it is accountability. someone is responsible. if a car blows up you have a manufacturer and a dealer and big insurance policies. not so much with the DIY builders or LBS pass through or little companies that rebrand after a fire. I do not want to think giant is hiding behind momentum name. grrr. at this point, I am keeping these bikes, hiding them for now. digging out my lease. I know there was no smoking but 99% sure nothing about an e-bike which leads me to believe they can go F themselves. also, they cant come in my apartment unless an emergency so I will just pt the battery in the closet. lol

 

[rob feature]

I'd check with your insurance company and see if something like that is covered. If it is, just do your thing. If they mess with you, check back in with your armchair legal team here for more advice

Unless someone there just has a hard-on for you or ebikes, or you made some sort of impression, you may just be able to fly under their RADAR

 

[rob feature]

One more thing. Yeah, there are too many documented ebike battery fires. But so far it appears that the data demonstrates that these mostly occur in situations where the battery is charged or discharged outside of a set of acceptable parameters, modified, or poorly built. Convincing a set of people who may have already made up their minds on the subject may be another matter, but incidents involving well-made packs are rare.

 

[rich c]

Of course a co-op can have a clause to prevent hazardous materials stored in your apartment. New York, New York is doing that right now as well. Apartment fires are a real thing. Plenty of them shown on YouTube. Air Line companies have outlawed carrying them on airplanes for a couple years now.

 

[AHicks]

ii have to review my lease that I signed at closing, got to find it. I feel I would remember this, and I don't think I did. and regarding peace of mind, I agree re insurance and deep pocket and liability. where there is someone standing behind a product it is more or different that peace of mind (what is that exactly) it is accountability. someone is responsible. if a car blows up you have a manufacturer and a dealer and big insurance policies. not so much with the DIY builders or LBS pass through or little companies that rebrand after a fire. I do not want to think giant is hiding behind momentum name. grrr. at this point, I am keeping these bikes, hiding them for now. digging out my lease. I know there was no smoking but 99% sure nothing about an e-bike which leads me to believe they can go F themselves. also, they cant come in my apartment unless an emergency so I will just pt the battery in the closet. lol

My plan would involve "show me" as well.... Not after some negative Nancy answer based more on uninformed personal opinion than an actual rule.

 

[mschwett]

… but incidents involving well-made packs are rare.

i’d go beyond that and say incidents involving well made packs, not modified or damaged, and stored in reasonable conditions are beyond rare almost to the level of apocryphal.

incidents from cheap packs charged by the dozen on crappy chargers with crappy BMS… not rare at all.

sort of like if you decided to add an extra 5 gallon reserve tank to your car yourself and fill it up from a friends car in your garage every three days, eventually something terrible would happen.

check your lease and other relevant agreements. there may well be a blanket clause about the board being able to regulate hazardous items over time
nonspecifically. lay low in the meantime.