Class 3 commuters

[Maestrodenada]

I've put about 5000 spectacular miles all-weather miles on my Yamaha Cross Core, and I'm looking to get something faster that I can practically use as a car replacement for longer errands / trips. I'm an enthusiastic and fit cyclist who enjoys pedaling, and want something that is bike-like- I'm less interested in fat tire / motorcycle-like things. I really like the torque sensing mid-drive. Budget is $5k-ish.

I'm looking for someone really reputable and reliable. I don't want a Bafang motor- I'm not looking to tinker or have to worry about things like replacing internal gears. I need an incredibly reliable transportation appliance that I don't have to troubleshoot, or worry will cut out on me when it's 20 degrees F or pouring down an inch an hour (the Yamaha has been great in that way).

R&M and Tern have fantastic looking options that are just entirely out of my price range (I wouldn't mind a cargo bike). Serial 1 looks interesting but I really want at least a front suspension since I do intend to ride at the upper end of the speed range (legal in my jurisdiction), and they seem to have a pretty slow charger. The Gazelles look very interesting and are currently at the top of my list. Civilized cycles actually looks like the perfect bike, but they are totally unproven (haven't shipped anything).

Are there other good options I'm missing?

 

[Maestrodenada]

Perhaps by 100% assist he meant doubling the rider power? That would be the eco setting on my Yamaha. I usually ride at 250%. But for kicks let's do the math on that.

Let's assume on a flat, a 60lb bike, 185lb rider in an upright-ish position takes 650w of total power to move 28mph (I'm adding a bit to what I saw in an online calculator for cycling power with your hands on the hoods for a road bike). So at 100% assist, you're having to crank out 350w (personally my FTP is 100w south of that so we're already into fantasy land) and the bike will do 350w. So in that ideal scenario you'd need a 825wh battery for the 66 miles.

My fantasy bike, the R&M Supercharger, has a 1,250Wh battery option. So in this ideal fantasy scenario I actually could get 66 miles pedaling at 170 - 180w, which I could probably do for 2.5 hours (but I'd be pretty unhappy afterwards). Of course that's an $8000 bike...

 

[BlackHand]

Are there other good options I'm missing?

Electrical Bikes powered by Bosch - Moustache Bikes

Moustache is the strong belief that the electric bicycle represents an incredible opportunity for the development of bicycle use! We believe it is the perfect tool to leave the car in the garage.

moustachebikes.com

Moustache seems to slot in between R&M and Gazelle for pricing IIRC.

I really like my Haibike Trekking S, but they don't offer a speed version in the US right now.

The new Crosscore is going to be class 3 if you like to stick close to what you have now

Yamaha unveils two new 28 mph electric bikes for gravel and road riding using new mid-drive motor

Yamaha Power Assist Bicycles, the electric bike division of Yamaha, has just announced two new updates to the brand’s US...

www.google.com

 

[BikingSoCal]

gazelle ultimate T10+ hist all my buttons for fast commuting

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

R&M and Tern have fantastic looking options that are just entirely out of my price range (I wouldn't mind a cargo bike). Serial 1 looks interesting but I really want at least a front suspension since I do intend to ride at the upper end of the speed range (legal in my jurisdiction), and they seem to have a pretty slow charger. The Gazelles look very interesting and are currently at the top of my list. Civilized cycles actually looks like the perfect bike, but they are totally unproven (haven't shipped anything).

We built our Samurai model for a rider like yourself. While I don't mean to hijack your thread, you should consider the Samurai model in your shortlist.

Zen Samurai - Built in Canada - shipping since June 2022

E-bike enthusiasts and EBR readers, We are happy to announce that we are ready to accept pre-orders for the Zen Samurai model. A very capable bike that has the Bosch Gen-4 CX/speed motor, dual battery capability, Gates belt drive, internal gear hubs like Enviolo and Rohloff, and other premium...

electricbikereview.com

I was a rider like yourself and understand the requirements well. At one point, I used to commute 30 miles each way from College Park to Annapolis, Maryland (see strava image below)
If our Samurai model doesn't suit the bill, no worries but wanted to make you aware of an option that ticks most of the boxes -
Bosch Gen4 Speed motor
Gates belt drive
Enviolo/Kindernay/Rohloff choices
Dual battery - 1000 Wh
Quality Air suspension
Samurai Base model with 2 batteries can be customized to meet your budget

 

[Bicyclista]

I've put about 5000 spectacular miles all-weather miles on my Yamaha Cross Core, and I'm looking to get something faster that I can practically use as a car replacement for longer errands / trips. I'm an enthusiastic and fit cyclist who enjoys pedaling, and want something that is bike-like- I'm less interested in fat tire / motorcycle-like things. I really like the torque sensing mid-drive. Budget is $5k-ish.

I'm looking for someone really reputable and reliable. I don't want a Bafang motor- I'm not looking to tinker or have to worry about things like replacing internal gears. I need an incredibly reliable transportation appliance that I don't have to troubleshoot, or worry will cut out on me when it's 20 degrees F or pouring down an inch an hour (the Yamaha has been great in that way).

R&M and Tern have fantastic looking options that are just entirely out of my price range (I wouldn't mind a cargo bike). Serial 1 looks interesting but I really want at least a front suspension since I do intend to ride at the upper end of the speed range (legal in my jurisdiction), and they seem to have a pretty slow charger. The Gazelles look very interesting and are currently at the top of my list. Civilized cycles actually looks like the perfect bike, but they are totally unproven (haven't shipped anything).

Are there other good options I'm missing?

Perhaps the least expensive option would be to "tune" your bike with a speed derestrictor such as the bikespeed. I did that with my Yamaha-powered Haibike mountain bike and have enjoyed it for 15,000 trouble-free miles. I also added a rack and panniers. If you did that, your Yamaha Cross Core would be closer to a car replacement.

Regarding cargo bikes, I recently bought a Yuba Spicy Curry AT (all terrain). It supports speeds up to 28mph and it can house two batteries. The basic Spicy Curry AT is $5,500 and a second battery (plus electronics) adds another $1,000, if I remember correctly. So, just outside your budget perhaps. (Yuba also makes the Kombi E5 with Shimano Steps motor for $3,300, but I don't think it's a Class 3 ebike. And the standard Spicy Curry is also not a Class 3 ebike.)

Keep in mind that if you like Yamaha's "instant torque" you may be disappointed with the sluggish performance of other motors. In my experience, the Yamaha motor is one of the stronger mid-drive motors, with the ability to start up quickly and climb difficult hills. The Bosch Cargo Line motor in my Spicy Curry AT is as strong as my old Yamaha PW motor, but cannot match it off the line. The Bosch Performance Line motor in my girlfriend's Tern HSD is wimpy by comparison.

 

[geysir]

Strangely, the speed delimiters only work on Yamaha motors mounted in non-Yamaha brand bikes. For Yamaha bike there was an Asian source for replacing the plastic sensor ring that mounts on the rear wheel by the brake rotor. I agree that the Yamaha motor is very nice when starting.

 

[geysir]

The Class 3 ebike I am buying next week is the 2022 Specialized Vado 5.0 for $5,000. 28mph, 90 nm, peak of 560 watts, 710 wh battery. Should have a long range. I want a bike with front suspension as my ripped shoulder screams at me on big bumps. This will replace a Yamaha CrossCore.

 

[WattsUpDude]

Strangely, the speed delimiters only work on Yamaha motors mounted in non-Yamaha brand bikes. For Yamaha bike there was an Asian source for replacing the plastic sensor ring that mounts on the rear wheel by the brake rotor. I agree that the Yamaha motor is very nice when starting.

This isn’t true. I have a SpeedBox 2.0 on my Urban Rush and it works really well.

 

[geysir]

That's good to hear Speedbox 2.0 works for your Urban Rush. On the website there are 2 versions for Speedbox 2.0. The first is "Speedbox 2.0 for Yamaha PW (Until 2018)". It states "BE CAREFUL! This chip is not compatible with the following motors: PW-SE, PW-X, PW-TE, PWX2 a PW-ST".
The second version is "SpeedBox 2.0 for Yamaha (PW-X, SE, ST, TE, CE, X2)". It states "Not compatible with following bikes: CrossCore, CrossConnect, YDX-Torc, YDX-Moro, YDX-Moro Pro, UrbanRush and Wabash" .

 

[WattsUpDude]

That's good to hear Speedbox 2.0 works for your Urban Rush. On the website there are 2 versions for Speedbox 2.0. The first is "Speedbox 2.0 for Yamaha PW (Until 2018)". It states "BE CAREFUL! This chip is not compatible with the following motors: PW-SE, PW-X, PW-TE, PWX2 a PW-ST".
The second version is "SpeedBox 2.0 for Yamaha (PW-X, SE, ST, TE, CE, X2)". It states "Not compatible with following bikes: CrossCore, CrossConnect, YDX-Torc, YDX-Moro, YDX-Moro Pro, UrbanRush and Wabash" .

It was an adventure but I finally found a solution that worked.

 

[geysir]

Geysir what engine/motor does your bike have?

I have a 2019 Yamaha CrossCore with the Yamaha PW-SE motor. A nice motor but the medium frame has a top tube too short for me.

 

[geysir]

I am hoping the Specialized (Brose) Vado motor is just as nice as the Yamaha. For 2022 Specialized did change the belt and programming so the motor won't fail like the 2019 and 2020 models. I also look forward to the air suspension forks, roomier frame, and 28 mph limit. Brakes aren't a factor as I upgraded the CrossCore to hydraulic disc brakes (Shimano MT200 for $60).

 

[Baldhills]

I've put about 5000 spectacular miles all-weather miles on my Yamaha Cross Core, and I'm looking to get something faster that I can practically use as a car replacement for longer errands / trips. I'm an enthusiastic and fit cyclist who enjoys pedaling, and want something that is bike-like- I'm less interested in fat tire / motorcycle-like things. I really like the torque sensing mid-drive. Budget is $5k-ish.

I'm looking for someone really reputable and reliable. I don't want a Bafang motor- I'm not looking to tinker or have to worry about things like replacing internal gears. I need an incredibly reliable transportation appliance that I don't have to troubleshoot, or worry will cut out on me when it's 20 degrees F or pouring down an inch an hour (the Yamaha has been great in that way).

R&M and Tern have fantastic looking options that are just entirely out of my price range (I wouldn't mind a cargo bike). Serial 1 looks interesting but I really want at least a front suspension since I do intend to ride at the upper end of the speed range (legal in my jurisdiction), and they seem to have a pretty slow charger. The Gazelles look very interesting and are currently at the top of my list. Civilized cycles actually looks like the perfect bike, but they are totally unproven (haven't shipped anything).

Are there other good options I'm missing?

My wife and I are riding this bike: https://electricbikereview.com/gazelle/ultimate-c380-plus-hmb/
Her‘s is a small mid step, and mine is the large high step frame.
The bike is very durable, and makes a great commuter/every day ride.
The manual Enviolo trecking hub is shifting easier the more we ride. I find it natural now to twist the grip unconsciously to keep it in the optimum gear. With this set up there is less maintenance required. Should be a good long term low maintenance bike.
This bike is only sold in the US market as it’s a class 3 bike.
We are very happy with these bikes!

 

[bones774]

It was an adventure but I finally found a solution that worked.

Tell us about it, please

 

[Baldhills]

gazelle ultimate T10+ hist all my buttons for fast commuting

Or the Gazelle Ultimate C380+.
It’s more expensive then the T10+, but more durable with less maintenance.

 

[Alaskan]

I really liked my Evelo Aurora Limited with its 750 watt Dapu mid drive and Enviolo CVT with Automatiq shifting and carbon belt. It was quick, responsive, quiet and very well built. It did have a throttle, which I did not use much and was tunable to go up to 25mph. Great company with solid, helpful people. Unfortunately all my comments are past tense as the bike was stolen. I have a new Evolo Omega arriving next week. This new model has the same motor tuned up to higher torque output (105 NM torque to 115). It has an easier step through, bigger internal battery and weighs 10 pounds less. You can also add a second integrated battery for up to 100 miles range.

It should be an outstanding commuter.

Omega

Experience an elevated riding experience with the Omega electric bike. Built with top-of-the-line components, including a powerful mid-drive motor and fully automatic shifting. Find out why people love the Omega. Shop now!

evelo.com

 

[BikingSoCal]

Or the Gazelle Ultimate C380+.
It’s more expensive then the T10+, but more durable with less maintenance.

Maintenance on regular derailleurs is overrated.
Cleaning the chain is no big deal to me.
Easier to change the tire, more speeds, easier to take care at your LBS, less resistance to pedaling if power off, less battery use.
I almost bought it but decided against it.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Maintenance on regular derailleurs is overrated.
Cleaning the chain is no big deal to me.
Easier to change the tire, more speeds, easier to take care at your LBS, less resistance to pedaling if power off, less battery use.
I almost bought it but decided against it.

Plus then I look at the bike more that way. Plus most of the internal hubs are way to limited gear wise for me and the better ones are hugely expensive.

 

[Marci jo]

I really liked my Evelo Aurora Limited with its 750 watt Dapu mid drive and Enviolo CVT with Automatiq shifting and carbon belt. It was quick, responsive, quiet and very well built. It did have a throttle, which I did not use much and was tunable to go up to 25mph. Great company with solid, helpful people. Unfortunately all my comments are past tense as the bike was stolen. I have a new Evolo Omega arriving next week. This new model has the same motor tuned up to higher torque output (105 NM torque to 115). It has an easier step through, bigger internal battery and weighs 10 pounds less. You can also add a second integrated battery for up to 100 miles range.

It should be an outstanding commuter.

Omega

Experience an elevated riding experience with the Omega electric bike. Built with top-of-the-line components, including a powerful mid-drive motor and fully automatic shifting. Find out why people love the Omega. Shop now!

evelo.com

Sharp looking bike, Alaskan. Step through, mid-drive, & throttle. Would love to test ride one.