Buying an Ebike for my commute to and from work to tackle a large gradient hill.

[Harllequin]

Good afternoon folks.
After a bit of reading and head scratching I’ve decided to reach out for some advice.

I’m looking for an Ebike for my trip to work. The way there is very easy as it’s all down hill. The return is up that same lovely steep hill. It has a severe gradient so I’m looking for a higher torque motor.

I prefer the looks of a battery integrated into the frame rather than a black box stuck on the side. I also want to go with mid drive as I like the feel of those better than a hub drive motor.

My budget is 2k or under.
So far I’ve narrowed my choice down to the following 3 bikes.

The Raymon Hardray E 4.0 as it has the Yamaha PW-TE, 250W, 60Nm with a 500Wh battery, priced at £1750 WT=23.2kg

The Lapierre Overvolt HT 7.6 with it’s Yamaha PW-ST 70Nm Motor System, 630Wh battery priced at £1899 WT=25.7kg

The EBCO Adventure 3 Trapeze which has the 65nm Bafang M200 Mid Motor and a 417Wh battery priced at £1999 WT=22kg

I like the look of all 3 bikes despite how different from one another they look.

From what I read I thought the PW-TE and the PW-ST were the same motor specifications wise, so the discrepancy in torque has me puzzled.

I’ve not found reviews of those specific bikes but looking at other reviews on bikes that use similar setups it seems the Bafang cuts power abruptly when you hit the 15.5mph mark. While the Yamaha is a lot more refined.
I’d rather have the progressive drop that Yamaha seem to give.


What is holding me back from the Yamaha setups are the older posts I have read about Yamaha not supplying parts for motors and the need to just buy and install a whole new unit. Is that the same in 2024 as it was in 2022?
While not an issue for the time it’s under warranty it is a consideration for down the line.


I’d love to hear from any of you guys who own any of those 3 bikes please.


I’d also like to hear from you if I have missed a bike I should add to the list to consider.


I’m leaning towards the Raymon, I know it has the lowest torque of the 3 but for £150 to £200 cheaper I can live with the bit extra effort which will be required. It’s also not a bad weight at 23.2kg, granted not as light as the EBCO at 22kg but a lot better than the Lapierre at 25.7kg


Thank you kindly in advance folks.


Cheers

Darren

 

[Ben J]

I also want to go with mid drive as I like the feel of those better than a hub drive motor.

Good choice, but be aware almost all of those will require pedaling to go up the hill. Hub drives are more likely to have a throttle so you could go uphill without any pedaling (assuming the bike has the power).

 

[Explorer-1]

OP>"It has a severe gradient."

You might want to be a bit more precise; 'severe' is open to too much interpretation.

 

[Harllequin]

I don't mind the pedaling part. I doubt any hub motor would drag me up that hill without some help from me

 

[Harllequin]

OP>"It has a severe gradient."

You might want to be a bit more precise; 'severe' is open to too much interpretation.

107 meters in 1 km

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

107 meters in 1 km

That's a pretty respectable 11% grade! I can get my 70 lb, 500W, 65 Nm torque-sensing hub-drive up that with acceptable exertion but had to lower the stock gearing to keep an acceptable cadence.

Meets my needs, but I don't have to face your hill everyday. If you foresee days when you'll want less sweat getting home, an ebike like mine is definitely not the tool for the job.

If durability and reliability are important, finding the right tool for under $2,000 won't be easy. Not knowledgeable enough to steer you there, but I do know 2 things:
1. Test before you buy.
2. Make sure you can get local service, and not just on the mechanicals.

Good luck!

 

[DaveMatthews]

I've had good luck with Giant...

Explore E+ 1 625Wh (2022) | bike | Giant Bicycles UK

www.giant-bicycles.com

 

[indianajo]

250 w is .25 kw or 91775 kgm/hr. So if the bike+rider weighed 100 kg a 250w motor could lift the bike+rider+accessories 918 m in an hour, barring wind resistance. So on a 10.7% grade a 250 w motor could travel 8.58 km in an hour eliminating wind resistance and input from the rider. A 200 kg rider+bike+accessories would climb 459 m in an hour on a 10.7% grade and travel 4.29 km.

 

[Catalyzt]

That's a pretty respectable 11% grade! I can get my 70 lb, 500W, 65 Nm torque-sensing hub-drive up that with acceptable exertion but had to lower the stock gearing to keep an acceptable cadence.

Meets my needs, but I don't have to face your hill everyday. If you foresee days when you'll want less sweat getting home, an ebike like mine is definitely not the tool for the job.

If durability and reliability are important, finding the right tool for under $2,000 won't be easy. Not knowledge enough to steer you there, but I do know 2 things:
1. Test before you buy.
2. Make sure you can get local service, and not just on the mechanicals.

Good luck!

Thank you for doing the math, Jeremy!

By way of comparison, I can ride up a 15% graded road on a 40nm 250W 47 lb. mid-drive eMTB, and I'm 66 and have health problems, but it does require substantial effort and I work pretty hard generally to stay fit. If you are reasonably fit, the 51 lb. Hadray could probably do the job. To me, that would be the lower limit of what's reasonable for my age and ability level on a daily basis. In the real world, I sometimes climb dirt trails far steeper than that, but for very short distances, and maybe once a month.

The brakes on the Hadray were not well liked on the site that I visited (emtb-Test). That might give me pause. I burn through brake pads pretty quick, there are a lot hills out here.

 

[Harllequin]

Thanks for the replies folks.

I know the bikes I have narrowed down will be capable of helping me up the hill. I had a try of a 50nm hub motored bike and that worked well enough for what I needed.

I have not tried any of the bikes yet, but I will be using a local bike shop who I like after chatting with the staff there.

Thanks for the info about the brakes Catalyzt, I'll have a look into that and see if there are a better quality pad available for them.

 

[Urbancowboy]

Well I don't know much about eBikes, bought mine new via Amazon Last Spring on whim. Well I guess I got Lucky, I love this Bike it definitely works for me. The only mayor drawback I found so far is, if I leave it alone I am sure it gets stolen Pronto. So when I go to the Swimming Pool early in the morning I take my old beater regular Bike.
My eBike (Fucare Gemeni) has a 750 Watts Motor and 2 Batteries. I am over 200 Lbs and this Bike will pull me up steep Asphalt Roads no problem whatsoever.
My suggestions to you or anybody would be to try out a bunch of different ebikes. Perhaps you can make a Deal with your trusted neighborhood eBike Shop before you purchase from them.
Thanks -UC

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

The Raymon Hardray E 4.0 as it has the Yamaha PW-TE, 250W, 60Nm with a 500Wh battery, priced at £1750 WT=23.2kg

The Lapierre Overvolt HT 7.6 with it’s Yamaha PW-ST 70Nm Motor System, 630Wh battery priced at £1899 WT=25.7kg
What is holding me back from the Yamaha setups are the older posts I have read about Yamaha not supplying parts for motors and the need to just buy and install a whole new unit. Is that the same in 2024 as it was in 2022?

I have the predecessor to the Yamaha PW-ST, the PW. 70nm of torque like the ST. You want the additonal 10nm of torque and the extra 130wh of battery and at that, it's a minimal price upgrade. Go with the Lapierre.

My 2016 Yamaha PW motor and batteries are still trouble free since early 2017 and alot of miles on the odometer. I do know that the ST motor is on the last of the US bound Yamaha powered Haibike mountain bikes. All it is, is a step down in torque from the PW-X series of motors.

I know for my PW, parts are available in the Yamaha parts pipeline on motorcycle parts websites like Revzilla. Can't speak for you UK folks. The Yamaha remains one of the most trouble-free ebike motors and batteries on the market.

 

[Harllequin]

Thanks for all the replies folks.

At the finish I went with the Raymon.

I'd have liked the Lapierre but non of my local bike shops had it in stock and while I could have ordered it from my local bike shop's web page, it would mean that I had to address any problems the bike had by sending the bike back to the supplier as the local shop, despite being the same company were not allowed to touch the bike for repairs or warranty. The web page acting as a middle man with the bike coming direct from the supplier.
That just seemed too convoluted for my liking. It's a lot easier going down to somewhere in person and dealing with people face to face.

The EBCO, well I went to have a look at it and just walked away, I just didn't like the look of it in the flesh at all, add to that, the posts I found about it were not kind on it's ride quality or quality in general.

That left the Raymon. Out of the 3 I liked the look of that best anyway.

I've ordered a few bits and bobs to fit like mud guards, lights and other toys. Once I have it the way I like I'll pop up a pic.

My first trip out on it was Thursday / Friday, the trip to work was nice and stable, I didn't turn the motor on and the bike felt nice and easy to pedal on the few flat non down hill parts. While the brakes are at the bottom end of quality as per the review that Catalyzt found, they are the best brakes I've ever had on a bike, there must be something in this hydraulic setup combined with discs, I bet it catches on .

On the way home Friday morning I the motor had the motor turned on from the start and you could feel the motor helping, the bike felt OK on the flatter parts, with it set to minimal assistance. Once I got to the second part I didn't mess about, I just turned it up to max setting.
There are 3 different gradients on the way home, starts off slight, then gets a bit worse, finishing with the nasty part.
First 1.5 miles were very easy, I had the gearing set up on the smallest gear all the way. Then I hit the hill properly for the last half a mile, while the motor was helping I still had to nock it down 2 gears in order to get the full benefit. It was by no means easy and left me "out of puff" at the top of the hill, but at no point did I think I'd have to get off and push!

Time wise the last half a mile took me the same amount of time as the first mile and a half.
13 minutes 10 seconds in total. When I take the car I average 9 minutes on the trip back home, so as far as time goes I'm rather pleased with that, my average speed home was 9 mph, again I can live with that for the first time out on a bike in years.

I've added a couple of pics of the info from my Fitbit, it handily split the average speeds between the slight, harder and OMG sections of the hill and the elevation from start to finish. While the graph shows the time it all took.
That extra bit of data should please Explorer-1.

Thanks again folks for all the input, once I finally get the bike all kitted out I'll pop up a pic.

Cheers
Darren

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Darren @Harllequin, I'd love to hear more about your experiences with the Raymon. Raymon e-bikes are sold by a large store of CentrumRowerowe.pl here. I met a young roadie on my Sunday's ride. He asked me questions about e-bikes, as he intends to buy one for his Dad. He specifically mentioned the Raymon. Any insight on the battery range?

 

[Harllequin]

Darren @Harllequin, I'd love to hear more about your experiences with the Raymon. Raymon e-bikes are sold by a large store of CentrumRowerowe.pl here. I met a young roadie on my Sunday's ride. He asked me questions about e-bikes, as he intends to buy one for his Dad. He specifically mentioned the Raymon. Any insight on the battery range?

Sorry Stefan, not as yet, I've only used it the once. I've just checked the battery indicator and I've got 9 out of 10 lights left. I'm 91.5kg and had a backpack on with a 19" laptop and other bits and bobs so it had to haul a good bit of weight about.

 

[CanNik]

The poster is talking about 500w motors on some he has stated

WHO is going to remind him this IS ILLEGAL IN THE UK.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The poster is talking about 500w motors on some he has stated

WHO is going to remind him this IS ILLEGAL IN THE UK.

He was talking about the 500 Wh battery capacity. Wh = V * Ah (energy, not power).
He was talking about e-bikes of 250 W nominal motor power.
Two totally unrelated things.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Thanks for all the replies folks.

At the finish I went with the Raymon.

I'd have liked the Lapierre but non of my local bike shops had it in stock and while I could have ordered it from my local bike shop's web page, it would mean that I had to address any problems the bike had by sending the bike back to the supplier as the local shop, despite being the same company were not allowed to touch the bike for repairs or warranty. The web page acting as a middle man with the bike coming direct from the supplier.
That just seemed too convoluted for my liking. It's a lot easier going down to somewhere in person and dealing with people face to face.

The EBCO, well I went to have a look at it and just walked away, I just didn't like the look of it in the flesh at all, add to that, the posts I found about it were not kind on it's ride quality or quality in general.

That left the Raymon. Out of the 3 I liked the look of that best anyway.

I've ordered a few bits and bobs to fit like mud guards, lights and other toys. Once I have it the way I like I'll pop up a pic.

My first trip out on it was Thursday / Friday, the trip to work was nice and stable, I didn't turn the motor on and the bike felt nice and easy to pedal on the few flat non down hill parts. While the brakes are at the bottom end of quality as per the review that Catalyzt found, they are the best brakes I've ever had on a bike, there must be something in this hydraulic setup combined with discs, I bet it catches on .

On the way home Friday morning I the motor had the motor turned on from the start and you could feel the motor helping, the bike felt OK on the flatter parts, with it set to minimal assistance. Once I got to the second part I didn't mess about, I just turned it up to max setting.
There are 3 different gradients on the way home, starts off slight, then gets a bit worse, finishing with the nasty part.
First 1.5 miles were very easy, I had the gearing set up on the smallest gear all the way. Then I hit the hill properly for the last half a mile, while the motor was helping I still had to nock it down 2 gears in order to get the full benefit. It was by no means easy and left me "out of puff" at the top of the hill, but at no point did I think I'd have to get off and push!

Time wise the last half a mile took me the same amount of time as the first mile and a half.
13 minutes 10 seconds in total. When I take the car I average 9 minutes on the trip back home, so as far as time goes I'm rather pleased with that, my average speed home was 9 mph, again I can live with that for the first time out on a bike in years.

I've added a couple of pics of the info from my Fitbit, it handily split the average speeds between the slight, harder and OMG sections of the hill and the elevation from start to finish. While the graph shows the time it all took.
That extra bit of data should please Explorer-1.

Thanks again folks for all the input, once I finally get the bike all kitted out I'll pop up a pic.

Cheers
Darren

Never heard of the brand Raymon before, but that looks a great bike for the price with sensible & solid components. Good low gearing 38 x 11-46 and that Yamaha motor should get you up any hill. Yamaha motors are usually very reliable. Looks a good choice! Only thing I'd add, being in lovely rainy UK as you are, maybe check out some decent emtb style mudguards for your commute and long term, if mostly on the road, some better tyres maybe, when these ones wear down a bit. Happy riding!