Braking with both brakes?

[vincent]

had not ridden a bike in 30 years prior to buying my ebikes

I do not ride fast but when i brake always use both brake levers evenly...

Do not even know which ones stops which brake on the bikes and not sure it is the same on all my different bikes anyway

So far have not felt unsafe braking in the last couple of years and probably 4000 miles on my different bikes, maybe part of this is because i am going slower a lot, a lot of my bikes are rear end heavy hub motor fats
And do not ride in the rain much here in az

But reading the thread about the juiced bikes accident i see a lot of references to using the brakes separately

What is the problem with using them evenly?

 

[PDoz]

Do not even know which ones stops which brake on the bikes and not sure it is the same on all my different bikes anyway
?

Check before you ride again.

Then perhaps do a riding course / a bit of research to learn how / when to use the brakes.

I come from a mtb and off road motorbike background and definitely use front / rear brakes at varying levels in various situations - everything from steadying the bike at slow speeds to changing the geometry approaching corners ( or even getting the back wheel airborn to make really sharp corners possible) . It's secret magic stuff and well beyond the limits of an internet post, but suffice to say it terrifies me to hear people saying not to use the front brake! Brings back memories of bmx bikes with rear brakes only and all the injuries from doing silly things at silly speeds on silly bikes.

There's lots of online videos on advanced mtb riding skills, perhaps watch a few of those on braking technique and make up your own mind. Or just try stopping in a hurry with just the back brake locked up.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Vincent …
An expert in these matters is Jan Heine from Seattle who publishes a blog Off the Beaten Track (click for his article on braking technique).

Jan is a long distance randonneur enthusiast with an academic background in the sciences. He is not one of those people who expresses an enthusiastically-held opinion and then claims that it is backed by 'the science of ____'. Trust him, but do so critically (which is what any scientist would want) and check other views as well. Reading his forum members' responses on any topic is always worthwhile; like on our EBR Forum, the conversation is always civil.

With no assistance from our motors during braking, ebikers are quite similar to other cyclists. In general, preference should be given to the front brake and, when both are used, the ratio should be around 60:40. Yes, there will be exceptions but 'front brake dominant' remains the default.

The other all-too-obvious sage advice is to scrub off speed before reaching that sweeping corner on a high speed descent. This is when I apply a gentle single-finger touch to my front brake lever. Brake early; not late. Beware loose gravel!

Check which hand operates the front brake. It's usually standardised throughout a country but I can think of no logical connection with the side of the road that one rides on – for me the front brake is on the right.
… David

 

[ebikemom]

In the US, front brake is on the left, and rear brake is on the right. This is reversed in the UK. Here's an explanation from Jan Heine's blog...

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2015/06/05/which-hand-for-which-brake/

 

[PDoz]

In the US, front brake is on the left, and rear brake is on the right. This is reversed in the UK. Here's an explanation from Jan Heine's blog...

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2015/06/05/which-hand-for-which-brake/

An interesting theory for WHY - it relates to what side of the road you drive on, and the mistaken belief that keeping rear brake control was more important for hand signalling.

https://cyclingtips.com/2009/05/why-do-brakes-differ/

 

[Chopperbill]

I just switched the cables on my RadRover. It just comes naturally from riding motorcycles most of my life.
I no longer have “think” which is front or back.

 

[PDoz]

This whole front brake r/l thing has me thinking - the ccx thread had a frightening number of americans scared of using the front brake, yet here we have australians pointing out that the front brake is much more effective. I wonder if having the front brake controlled bybour dominant hand gives us the confidence to use our front brake?

Are there any americans who are left hand dominant, and do you feel perfectly comfortable using the front brake?

 

[AlanDB]

I am right handed, but like Vincent, I tend to use both brakes. My Gazelle bike has hydraulic rim brakes, so I don't know if that makes them more or less accident prone than disc brakes. I suppose there is a greater possibility that the rims could be wet or dusty.

 

[christob]

This whole front brake r/l thing has me thinking - the ccx thread had a frightening number of americans scared of using the front brake, yet here we have australians pointing out that the front brake is much more effective. I wonder if having the front brake controlled bybour dominant hand gives us the confidence to use our front brake?
Are there any americans who are left hand dominant, and do you feel perfectly comfortable using the front brake?

While right-handed here, I always chalked up that fear of "don't use the front brake!" to the stories of riders flying over their handlebars, as the front brake is applied suddenly and strongly at speed, causing the bike to dramatically pitch the rider forward. (I've never seen, nor had, this happen in person -- but there are plenty of stories and cautionary advice posted about this possibility... I suspect that slowly grows into a subtle "always favor the rear brake" mentality? Just a guess.) I tend to use both fairly consistently, seldom only applying one -- but I'm still a newbie at riding, coming up on 1 year.

 

[PDoz]

I guess I'm wondering if the front fear is caused by poor left handed control, and if there are cultural differences in countries where we have better / right hand brake control ( and conversely, do left handed individuals struggle in the enlightened lands)

As a child, we would practice stoppies ( front braking with the rear wheel in the air) - EVEN WITHOUT BRAKES ( don't try this, but we would use our foot on the front tyre / against the forks....as you do.....) . It was seen as evidence of good bike control - the next step up from wheelstands and all the other silly things we did in the pre computer games era.

Anyway, my reason for asking is I strongly believe good hydraulic disc brakes are safer than brakes that need a handfull of power to stop. Nothing beats the control of effective single finger braking using your index finger - controlled stopping , balancing traction against gravity using our most sensitive digit and still having the rest of our hand to hold the bars.

BTW , yes I've gone over the bars in the era of flimsy rim brakes - but I haven't ( yet) had an over the bars incident using discs ( 10 years) . We ride down tracks that are scary to walk down , controlling traction and trying not to catch the back tyre against sensitive anatomy. Don't try that with just a rear brake!

Now, the other reasons for going A over T have nothing to do with brakes - badly adjusted forks, front wheel bearings collapsing, badly adjusted head stems, rocks that magically appear on the trail, shadows that hide rocks that have been lurking on the trail, or cars that should never have been parked there. Pft, front brakes aren't an issue.

 

[harryS]

I'll not forget seeing a guy fly over his handlebars back in 1973, after his front wheel fell into a big crack on Chicago's Lakefront bike path. Lots of traffic even back then, and he was going slow. He did a front roll when he landed (hands on pavement keeping neck off ground). It was like he was a gymnast. His wheel got bent at 90 degrees.

No one wore bike helmets then. I didn't own any until I had kids and they started riding.

 

[Citycrosser]

I'm left handed and use the and rear brake differently based on the situation, I don't think handedness matters. After owning 13 different motorcycles and riding them over 150k miles, I've learned that nothing beats practice! My 1976 Honda GL1000 braked much differently than my 2005 Buell XB9SX. Practice stopping at different speeds over different surfaces. It makes the difference when it is an emergency.

Also, the new Bosch E-bike ABS might have prevented the CCX accident but who knows. I'm excited to try it out!

 

[vincent]

thanks for all the replies guys

i have practiced stopping fast some using both brakes

and i am not on purpose ever dong any technical mtn biking and definitely not at speed

 

[linklemming]

I'm left handed and use the and rear brake differently based on the situation, I don't think handedness matters. After owning 13 different motorcycles and riding them over 150k miles, I've learned that nothing beats practice! My 1976 Honda GL1000 braked much differently than my 2005 Buell XB9SX. Practice stopping at different speeds over different surfaces. It makes the difference when it is an emergency.

Also, the new Bosch E-bike ABS might have prevented the CCX accident but who knows. I'm excited to try it out!

And that really is the best advice...PRACTICE. Learn what your bike does in various scenarios. Up to 100% of your braking comes from the front wheel depending on the situation. The harder your braking the more the front wheel is dominant due to weight shift. As soon as the rear wheel comes off the ground, the rear brake is useless!

Been MTBing since the early 90s(was a roadie off/on before that). I have never gone over the bars from braking and in many instances my butt was an inch off the rear wheel in super steep stuff. I have always practiced maximum braking as its kindof fun.

Never had an issue with sport or offroad motorcycles either with the switched brake position. I did stoppies all the time just for fun.

I PRACTICE all the time and in all kind of scenarios. That being said, my typical braking behavior is selecting the right amount of rear brake initially(based on experience) and sticking with that and then modulating the front. Basically increasing the front till the rear starts to skid (due to weight shift) and then backing off on the front so the rear stops skidding. Bad things happen when the rear stops skidding due to being in the air. I am also doing body weight shift depending on the condition(s). In reality, there might be some rear brake modulations going on but Im not thinking about it.

Being on an ebike make this practice even more important. Its easy to get comfortable at higher speeds. So far my practice has paid off and I always seem to do the right thing.

 

[tomjasz]

eBike riders don't practice riding skills, especially braking skills. How many reading this actually know what their bikes will do in a panic?
IMO THAT is the problem. A good rider MUST have developed skills and understanding. Like an MC a bike's braking is dominated by the front but must be balanced by the rear. ABS or controlling skidding of either tire is a basic skill. Practice.

From MSF BRC but relevant,
https://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/brchandbook.pdf pages

 

[tomjasz]

And that really is the best advice...PRACTICE. Learn what your bike does in various scenarios. Up to 100% of your braking comes from the front wheel depending on the situation. The harder your braking the more the front wheel is dominant due to weight shift. As soon as the rear wheel comes off the ground, the rear brake is useless!

SPOT ON!

 

[glenmorenee]

I was going to post to the CCX thread but I might as well post here. I am also a new e-bike rider, only about 250 miles on the odometer. I was just a casual rider back in my 20's. It was more about fiddling with pretty frames ( Schwinn Paramount and English Hetchins bikes) and beautiful Campagnolo components. So I'm a newbie rider all over again in my 60's.

I am a pretty cautious rider and try to restrict myself to low traffic areas. So far so good, no car doors opening in my face. There are a lot of hills where I am so I do ride both brakes pretty hard to control speed. I do let it rip occasionally and I'll hit >40mph on some downhills. At the bottom of this one hill there is a steep uphill that I use like those runaway truck ramps to slow down. Braking on curves, I am always watchful for debris on the road.

The CCX thread was a helpful reminder to remain ever vigilant to front brake use. Sitting here typing, I couldn't tell you whether my front brake is on the right or left. I think it is on the right. My strategy going forward is to try and have full hand grip on the rear brake lever and only a few fingers grip on the front brake lever. Hopefully this becomes habit over time and maybe reduce the chance of a full grip, front wheel lockup in a panic stop.

I recently witnessed a girl going over her handlebars. (Not pleasant, she got hurt.) I was driving in one direction and she was riding in the opposite direction. Seemed to be just a casual rider on an upright style bike. No speed or obstacle to speak of, but the front wheel just locks up and over she goes.

Here is my GUESS as to what happened with CCX and the girl rider. For whatever reason you are riding the front brake. In the case of CCX, he is controlling downhill speed. Don't know why the girl would be riding her front brake,it was a flat straight-away. But the front brake catches a little and the reflex instinct is to just grip harder. Of course the correct action is to release the lever but maybe the body just says stop!