Bosch CX controller, Amp

[wildtrak]

I mean do you have a number?

Yes, it is usually between 150W and 180W average on that ride, with an average cadence of 85 or higher as I don't want to wear myself out before the workout at the gym.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Yes, it is usually between 150W and 180W average on that ride, with an average cadence of 85 or higher as I don't want to wear myself out before the workout at the gym.

I wonder if its the turbo your using? I ahve put out 550 watts on a 22% grade and maxed out the assist. that was on turbo if I cant get to 75 or so rpms the motor maxes out at when I do 450 watts.

 

[wildtrak]

Yes, Turbo with tuning.
But as I said, I don't care how much Watts the motor does. As long as I have plenty of batteries with me, I just drain them as quick as possible
Only on my camping trips I save some juice, but still don't care how much the motor does as long as it takes me where I want to go.

I never understand the discussions of how many Watts or Amps or whatever with the ebikes, even though I have a master degree in electric engineering.
The Bosch ebike system is just a great piece of German engineering and fun to ride. That is all that matters to me.

 

[Elsyklist]

I can easily drain a 500Wh battery in 40 minutes, going full speed in headwind in Turbo.
That would be 750Wh in one hour which equals a power of 750W continuously over one hour (or 750W in 2/3 of an hour (40 minutes) equals 500Wh).
So does that mean the motor does 750W while riding on maximum power?
No, it does not.
But that is what you get when you just look at the Amps and Volts (Watts) of the battery output.

But how is the status of your batteries? Maybe they no longer hold as many Wh as when they were new? The theoretical calculation is only tenable if you actually know how many watt-hours you have available. And maybe not then either.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

But how is the status of your batteries? Maybe they no longer hold as many Wh as when they were new? The theoretical calculation is only tenable if you actually know how many watt-hours you have available. And maybe not then either.

Ya, he's killing his batteries with the Turbo mode. Not my money though

 

[wildtrak]

But how is the status of your batteries?

Refurbished a while ago with good cells

Ya, he's killing his batteries with the Turbo mode.

Nope, the batteries are totally fine with that. Especially in dual battery mode.
Only when I use one in single mode and squeeze out the electrons pretty hard, it gives me the 1-3-5 LED blink, when I try to charge it right away. It just needs a little break to cool down for a few minutes before it accepts the charger

The theoretical calculation is only tenable if you actually know how many watt-hours you have available. And maybe not then either.

I do have the Bosch battery capacity tester and can also measure how many Wh they take on a charge. But these are only numbers which I looked at a long time ago. However, I really care more about riding the bikes than measuring things that are totally irrelevant for riding as long as it works as expected.

Not my money though

I have so many batteries and are going to refurbish two more and build another 1,000Wh battery out of 21700s, nothing to worry about here, too

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@wildtrak so you say any of your new batteries soon undergoes a big number of full recharge cycles and is being killed that way?
Are you telling me you are using home-made batteries for your Bosch e-bike(s)?

Interesting.

 

[wildtrak]

@wildtrak so you say any of your new batteries soon undergoes a big number of full recharge cycles and is being killed that way?
Are you telling me you are using home-made batteries for your Bosch e-bike(s)?

Interesting.

I don't get it why people think that Turbo is killing the batteries. If that would be the case, why would Bosch even offer the Turbo mode? To replace batteries all the time under warranty? That doesn't make sense to me.

Refurbished is a little bit different from home-made.
Refurbished means just replacing dead cells with new cells.
And for the 1kWh battery, I still use the Bosch BMS. Doing this for 4 years now and haven't killed any of my refurbished batteries yet.
And the 1kWh battery totally messed with the Bosch capacity tester, it is funny how it shows 2 minutes left until finished and goes on for a few more hours . It definitely does not show over 100% capacity.

And BTW, I do also charge them with up to 6A even though there is no 6A charger for 115V.
But I have my little home-made solar charging station for the Bosch batteries. Just for the heck of it because we have a lot of sun and I have some future plans for that.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I don't get it why people think that Turbo is killing the batteries. If that would be the case, why would Bosch even offer the Turbo mode? To replace batteries all the time under warranty? That doesn't make sense to me.

The warranty on the batteries is limited to some time (like, 2 years) or the number of charging cycles (like, 300), whichever comes first. (Not sure what are the Bosch terms).

If that would be the case, why would Bosch even offer the Turbo mode?

The Turbo mode is intended for:

• Hard climbs
• Fast rides in emergency situations (like, you have just realised you would be late for a meeting)
• Extricating yourself from trouble (like, a big truck is just behind you and you'd like to escape it).

Certainly, the Turbo mode is not the usual way of using an e-bike. Just think of the damage it does to your drivetrain! As I said "not my money" and you can do as you please. I've just thought pedalling in low assistance could give you a good workout and replace some activities you do at the gym

Refurbished is a little bit different from home-made.
Refurbished means just replacing dead cells with new cells.
And for the 1kWh battery, I still use the Bosch BMS. Doing this for 4 years now and haven't killed any of my refurbished batteries yet.
And the 1kWh battery totally messed with the Bosch capacity tester, it is funny how it shows 2 minutes left until finished and goes on for a few more hours . It definitely does not show over 100% capacity.

And BTW, I do also charge them with up to 6A even though there is no 6A charger for 115V.
But I have my little home-made solar charging station for the Bosch batteries. Just for the heck of it because we have a lot of sun and I have some future plans for that.

Well, I have survived a fire of my house (not battery related), and I would not like it to happen again. Do I understand correctly Bosch did not authorize your refurbishment?

 

[wildtrak]

The Turbo mode is intended for:

• Hard climbs
• Fast rides in emergency situations (like, you have just realised you would be late for a meeting)
• Extricating yourself from trouble (like, a big truck is just behind you and you'd like to escape it).

So why are there even S-Pedelecs? That is the most funniest thing I ever heard. I am out of here (asking myself why I even posted here, what I am doing).
I had my first ebike with the Bosch over 11 years ago and added a tuning right away (made my own chips). Soon after I got my first S-Pedelec and floored it every day to work and back. I guess that was an emergency every day.

Just think of the damage it does to your drivetrain!

I have seen a guy with 40,000km in two years on a Riese & Müller S-Pedelec with no problems, only riding Turbo.
Just get a bike with the Rohloff and a belt drive (I love that drive train on my Elom)

The warranty on the batteries is limited to some time (like, 2 years) or the number of charging cycles (like, 300)

I have seen batteries with over 500 charges. The bikes had way over 10k miles on them. No problem at all. Only the Gen2 main bearing goes bad (which I also replaced many times on those motors).

Do I understand correctly Bosch did not authorize your refurbishment?

Just like they not approved my tuning chip
Or my solar charging station in my backyard

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So why are there even S-Pedelecs?

In Europe, these are -- technically speaking -- mopeds. I own one. Do not ride it over 55% of full assistance unless in real need.
The United States: Ever heard of Fast & Furious?

I have seen a guy with 40,000km in two years on a Riese & Müller S-Pedelec with no problems, only riding Turbo.

Any information on the number of charging cycles of the batteries of that e-bike? Their degradation level?

 

[Elsyklist]

Refurbished is a little bit different from home-made.
Refurbished means just replacing dead cells with new cells.

Then the cells that were not dead will still be in the battery. These had presumably undergone many charge cycles and thus lost capacity. A battery does not regain full capacity simply by replacing dead cells. If a competent and impartial person had examined these batteries of yours, the conclusions about their quality would probably have been very different from those you have reached.


There is research into which factors contribute to the longest lifespan for this type of battery. And the opposite. What you have written about your practice is mostly just a recipe for how to shorten the effective life of the batteries. But you sure have a lot of fun. Get on with it and don't spend so much time on us who would like to know more about what you so clearly don't care about.

 

[wildtrak]

A battery does not regain full capacity simply by replacing dead cells.

So you know how I refurbish batteries?
Repairing a BMS and replacing all 40 dead cells with 40 brand new cells is not regaining full capacity? I don't know how you are refurbishing batteries, but you may do as you want.
I mean, I know what I am doing for many years now. But you can definitely have your own opinion about that.

Get on with it and don't spend so much time on us who would like to know more about what you so clearly don't care about.

Definitely what I am doing.
Okay, that was definitely my last post in this thread.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Repairing a BMS

 

[Elsyklist]

So you know how I refurbish batteries?
Repairing a BMS and replacing all 40 dead cells with 40 brand new cells is not regaining full capacity?

Only 40 dead cells replaced? Then there must have been many reused cells if it is the 500 Wh batteries you used earlier in the thread as an example. My position stands!

 

[BlackHand]

FYI - I am far from an expert but the Bosch Powerpacks that Wildtrak is talking about are 40 cell packs.

 

[Elsyklist]

FYI - I am far from an expert but the Bosch Powerpacks that Wildtrak is talking about are 40 cell packs.

That may be the case. In that case, each pack must consist of 5 cells and two and two packs must be connected in series before these double packs are connected in parallel. But this guy shows so little understanding of how such batteries work that I just have to take him literally.