Blown motor on E3 Dash with 29 miles on it

I got the bike back today. I drove with a friend from work and he rode it back. He said that it seemed to be working great. I probably won't get a chance to take it for a spin until later today or tomorrow, but it sounds like all systems are go. :)
 
Finally got to ride my bike later this afternoon and evening. It's working like a charm -- really a nice bike when the motor magnets are where they're supposed to be. :) Thanks to everyone for your advice and help.
 
Rob Earp said:
Hi Larry:

My name is Rob Earp and I can be reached at [email protected], or by phone at 615-866-5556. I received an E3 Dash on June 6 and have had problems with it from Day 1. I have had the motor replaced and a few days after was in the shop again while experiencing serious issues in Pedal Assist mode. The problems that I'm having are apparently beyond the technicians ability to resolve, and so the bike has been in the shop far more than it has been in my possession. I've notified the dealer about the continuing problems and inability to resolve, and would also like to have a conversation with you in hopes that we can settle this matter amicable. Thank you!
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Rob - I sent you an email before boarding the flight I'm on. I'll look forward to your reply.

Thank you,
-Larry
 
Hi guys, I was publishing a review of the new 2015 IZIP E3 Dash and reached out to Currie Technologies for acuracy on some of the specs. Their director of new product development, Beth Horner, responded with some new information on the motor issues we saw on some of the 2014 Dash units. Here is the exact quote from Beth, I was impressed with the transparency and excited to be reminded of the retrofitting program for all first gen models:

The background story is that the 'base' motor was lower powered (for the European market) and we asked for a 500W version for the USA. The long and short of it is that the magnetic attraction became so much stronger it broke the bond of individual magnets to the hub shell resulting in a loss of function. Once we did the failure analysis, changed the adhesive formula, and rushed out replacement wheels, we confirmed the solution worked with the most hard case users and critics.

Just goes to show that changing any one parameter can have surprising effects and that while we rode the test bikes quite hard over many months prior to market debut (a complete demo fleet with multiple riders actually), unanticipated events can and will happen, requiring further improvement we fully commit to.
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HumanitiesHaze--

I posted the same kind of problem as yours under the topic "New dash, same problems..." My dealer has ordered a new BB sensor and I should know by the end of next week, or sooner, if this solves my problem. Like you, all my diagnostic codes check-out fine, except for code 3 when pedaling. It should increase in value from 220 and go higher as you pedal. When just using the throttle this value increases just fine as it should, but it doesn't when pedaling---except when pedal assist decides to start working again. The problem, according to the documentation under code 3, is a defective BB sensor.

I have paid close attention to the diagnostic code for monitoring the brake lever sensors and they are working just fine. When my pedal assist decided not to work I had the bike in the brake sensor diagnostic mode to see if this was going to "001" to cut off my motor. It never did. The brake sensors seem to be working just fine. Even the brake lever adjusting screws for the levers were backed-off to see if they were triggering the sensors as mentioned in another post. They weren't. The values were changing from "000" to "oo1 just fine. If this new BB sensor doesn't work, then my suspicions are that there is possibly a short somewhere else in the electrical lines. I wonder if any Currie tech would know about that and where that could possibly be? If this bike comes to this, then it is time for the bike to be replaced with another one that works. I too, like you, have only had my bike a couple of weeks. This is too much money to spend on a bike that doesn't work coming out of the gate. My bike shop checked the BB cups to see if they were tight, and they said they were. The wires weren't damaged (except for the plastic around them), the plastic insert slipped in just fine how it was suppose to be oriented, and the white line on the spindle was facing up with the right crank facing forward. So something else is going awry here. I'll let you know what happens after I get the new BB sensor.
 
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wwjd said:
HumanitiesHaze--

I posted the same kind of problem as yours under the topic "New dash, same problems..." My dealer has ordered a new BB sensor and I should know by the end of next week, or sooner, if this solves my problem. Like you, all my diagnostic codes check-out fine, except for code 3 when pedaling. It should increase in value from 220 and go higher as you pedal. When just using the throttle this value increases just fine as it should, but it doesn't when pedaling---except when pedal assist decides to start working again. The problem, according to the documentation under code 3, is a defective BB sensor.

I have paid close attention to the diagnostic code for monitoring the brake lever sensors and they are working just fine. When my pedal assist decided not to work I had the bike in the brake sensor diagnostic mode to see if this was going to "001" to cut off my motor. It never did. The brake sensors seem to be working just fine. Even the brake lever adjusting screws for the levers were backed-off to see if they were triggering the sensors as mentioned in another post. They weren't. The values were changing from "000" to "oo1 just fine. If this new BB sensor doesn't work, then my suspicions are that there is possibly a short somewhere else in the electrical lines. I wonder if any Currie tech would know about that and where that could possibly be? If this bike comes to this, then it is time for the bike to be replaced with another one that works. I too, like you, have only had my bike a couple of weeks. This is too much money to spend on a bike that doesn't work coming out of the gate. My bike shop checked the BB cups to see if they were tight, and they said they were. The wires weren't damaged (except for the plastic around them), the plastic insert slipped in just fine how it was suppose to be oriented, and the white line on the spindle was facing up with the right crank facing forward. So something else is going awry here. I'll let you know what happens after I get the new BB sensor.
Click to expand...

I ran though 3 BB sensors (I got good at replacing them myself in under 5 minutes) and this one I have now is awesome. Works perfect, no cutting in and out. Keep us posted.
 
Boy, HH, that's really encouraging! But thanks for the heads up. Wow, five minutes to replace one. Now that is amazing. By now you should be a pro on all of this and the one to talk to should anyone encounter problems. You are invaluable to have around on this forum.

Anyway, I got my new sensor and my local bike shop kindly put it in for me while I was watching (they had the tools to remove the cranks and to loosen and tighten the cups). I had read all the documentation and made sure the bottom bracket caps were torqued to Currie's specifications; the plastic insert underneath was completely in the nut all the way with the split line between 9 and 11 o'clock; and the white line on the spindle was at 12 o'clock and the right hand crank at 3 o'clock. And guess what? It is actually worse with this new one than it was with the old one. At least the old one worked intermittently. This new one isn't working at all. As in both cases, it still works in throttle mode but not in pedal assist mode. One of the reasons I bought this bike was for the pedal assist. My hand goes to sleep holding open the throttle. My dealer is now looking to Currie to replace this bike with another one. I don't know if the decimal point on the miles per hour display that is blinking indicates that there might be a short in this bike, but blinking (almost like twitching) doesn't seem right. Does anyone else notice their decimal point blinking (or twitching) when in the miles per hour display mode?
 
My decimal doesn't blink. And that sad about your new BB. Never had that happen. When you run the diagnostics does the value go up when you pedal? Maybe they didn't hook the sensor up?
 
No, the value doesn't go up, as it didn't also before when the other one wasn't working. But they both increased in throttle mode. When the other one sometimes decided to start working in pedal assist the value did go up. And as far as my dealer hooking up the sensor, if you mean did they connect it right at the connector? When I asked them that they said that they did connect it as it should be. Also, I was told there was no bent pins in that connector. And there are no bent pins in my LCD or Control connectors as well. It is interesting that your decimal point doesn't blink though. It is very subtle, you have to watch for it. My dealer noticed it and asked if I had noticed it, and I said I have. By the way, HH, tell us what you experienced with your first two BB sensors, before the third one seem to be the charm.
 
wwjd said:
Boy, HH, that's really encouraging! But thanks for the heads up. Wow, five minutes to replace one. Now that is amazing. By now you should be a pro on all of this and the one to talk to should anyone encounter problems. You are invaluable to have around on this forum.

Anyway, I got my new sensor and my local bike shop kindly put it in for me while I was watching (they had the tools to remove the cranks and to loosen and tighten the cups). I had read all the documentation and made sure the bottom bracket caps were torqued to Currie's specifications; the plastic insert underneath was completely in the nut all the way with the split line between 9 and 11 o'clock; and the white line on the spindle was at 12 o'clock and the right hand crank at 3 o'clock. And guess what? It is actually worse with this new one than it was with the old one. At least the old one worked intermittently. This new one isn't working at all. As in both cases, it still works in throttle mode but not in pedal assist mode. One of the reasons I bought this bike was for the pedal assist. My hand goes to sleep holding open the throttle. My dealer is now looking to Currie to replace this bike with another one. I don't know if the decimal point on the miles per hour display that is blinking indicates that there might be a short in this bike, but blinking (almost like twitching) doesn't seem right. Does anyone else notice their decimal point blinking (or twitching) when in the miles per hour display mode?
Click to expand...

wwjd,
This blinking decimal point has never been seen before. I'm not certain how to respond to that at all.....yet.

As for the new BB, my thoughts are that it was damaged upon installation, or the white line was not placed properly on the spindle. We have had a select few times that the replacement may have no line at all, or the line painted incorrectly. An easy way to test for just a miss-placed line, is to remove and reinstall your cranks forward or backwards in rotation to the next 90 degree position. We know the a properly placed white line works good upward, or downward nearly the same. Only a damaged wire will cause intermittent behavior, or a "miss-clocked" crank will be completely erratic behavior (may work good for a mile, then off for 2 blocks, then good again for some time.....totally senseless!). If the wires had been damaged, they can likely be seen off center as they exit the BB hole, and/or you can see the black shrink-tube damaged. A quick removal of the 14mm bolt and peg will allow you to look in seconds. We can easily send another BB to you or the shop if the last one was damaged. Email [email protected], or just have your shop contact us.
 
I really appreciate that a Currie Tech member stepped in here above to help me (and many others) with my problem. I took his advice and called my shop today to have them re-clock the crank. They had called Currie and were told to do that before replacing the bike. I concurred, and decided to drive the 90 mile round-trip again tomorrow to have them do this. But upon further inspection of the BB sensor here at my home today upon removal of the 14mm nut and the insert (or peg), the black shrink-wrapped tube is damaged beyond belief, and it doesn't look too good in there. In fact, it looks worse than the first one did that came shipped with the bike. That one too that came with the bike originally had a damaged shrink-tube, and the insert (or peg) was sitting about three quarters of the way out of the nut. I know this because I had checked this after getting error 4 codes on my display that pointed to the possibility of it being the BB sensor. My research online led me to where to locate this. It was not soon after this that the bike began to go in and out of pedal assist and begin to act erratic as described by the Currie Tech above. So, now I will have to wait another week for another BB sensor to arrive at the shop before evaluating this any further.

To add insult to injury, the serviceman at the shop thinks now that I did this maybe to the sensor when I removed the nut today to look at it based upon the advice of the Currie Tech above. But this sensor was never working for me at the shop right out the gate after he had installed it. And he rode my bike to test it realizing this, thinking along with me that there was something else wrong with this bike. He just can't believe that maybe, just maybe, he severed the wiring when tightening the bottom bracket caps. I saw him tightening them properly, with 44 foot lbs. on the right cap, and 30 foot lbs. on the left cap. He didn’t think this was enough torque, as he knows he applies more torque than this by feel when he tightens bottom bracket caps on other bikes. But, hey, this isn’t your ordinary bike. But he torqued it to the Currie specs anyway to make sure it was done right. By the way, we had also both at the shop removed the insert (or peg) to look into the hole to see if all looked well and observed nothing out of the ordinary, and thus the reason why he wants to put the blame on me. But we had not removed the nut to get a better view. When I removed the insert (or peg) today, all looked fine to me also down there---until I removed the nut!

By the way, can this Currie Tech above tell me if the insert (peg) is to remain flush in the nut? Or, is it just placed in there to initially position the sensor? There is nothing that holds this insert in this nut once the bike is right side up again. Gravity and all the bumps and grinds can shake this thing loose out of the nut. And while we are on this subject, why isn't there a hole of some kind so that someone can place a tool through the frame into the spindle to stop it from turning when the bottom bracket caps are being torqued down? I notice a little hole in the tube of the frame underneath my bike that the spindle goes into. What is that for?
 
When I install the BBTS I use WD-40 on the wires (And only on the top of them with a q-tip) to aid sliding it into the BB so I don't damage the wires. Otherwise it's a really tight fit and might damage the wires without lube.. It's impossible for you to damage that shrink wrap or wires by removing the nut unless you crammed a screwdriver in that hole and started poking at it.

Also avoid hitting the pedals on anything. The shock to the pedals might also damage the BBTS (Like taking it in and out of your apt/house and hitting them on stairs/bricks) I also torqued it down 3-4+ ft/lbs past what the manual said.

The insert stays in the nut without any other assistance. It's simply a guide to keep the wires off the metal nut. I've never had that pop out in my 1000+ miles of riding the dash.
 
wwjd said:
I really appreciate that a Currie Tech member stepped in here above to help me (and many others) with my problem. I took his advice and called my shop today to have them re-clock the crank. They had called Currie and were told to do that before replacing the bike. I concurred, and decided to drive the 90 mile round-trip again tomorrow to have them do this. But upon further inspection of the BB sensor here at my home today upon removal of the 14mm nut and the insert (or peg), the black shrink-wrapped tube is damaged beyond belief, and it doesn't look too good in there. In fact, it looks worse than the first one did that came shipped with the bike. That one too that came with the bike originally had a damaged shrink-tube, and the insert (or peg) was sitting about three quarters of the way out of the nut. I know this because I had checked this after getting error 4 codes on my display that pointed to the possibility of it being the BB sensor. My research online led me to where to locate this. It was not soon after this that the bike began to go in and out of pedal assist and begin to act erratic as described by the Currie Tech above. So, now I will have to wait another week for another BB sensor to arrive at the shop before evaluating this any further.

To add insult to injury, the serviceman at the shop thinks now that I did this maybe to the sensor when I removed the nut today to look at it based upon the advice of the Currie Tech above. But this sensor was never working for me at the shop right out the gate after he had installed it. And he rode my bike to test it realizing this, thinking along with me that there was something else wrong with this bike. He just can't believe that maybe, just maybe, he severed the wiring when tightening the bottom bracket caps. I saw him tightening them properly, with 44 foot lbs. on the right cap, and 30 foot lbs. on the left cap. He didn’t think this was enough torque, as he knows he applies more torque than this by feel when he tightens bottom bracket caps on other bikes. But, hey, this isn’t your ordinary bike. But he torqued it to the Currie specs anyway to make sure it was done right. By the way, we had also both at the shop removed the insert (or peg) to look into the hole to see if all looked well and observed nothing out of the ordinary, and thus the reason why he wants to put the blame on me. But we had not removed the nut to get a better view. When I removed the insert (or peg) today, all looked fine to me also down there---until I removed the nut!

By the way, can this Currie Tech above tell me if the insert (peg) is to remain flush in the nut? Or, is it just placed in there to initially position the sensor? There is nothing that holds this insert in this nut once the bike is right side up again. Gravity and all the bumps and grinds can shake this thing loose out of the nut. And while we are on this subject, why isn't there a hole of some kind so that someone can place a tool through the frame into the spindle to stop it from turning when the bottom bracket caps are being torqued down? I notice a little hole in the tube of the frame underneath my bike that the spindle goes into. What is that for?
Click to expand...

wwjd,
Like HH said, the peg, has a tooth that is used to hold the BB in position as you tighten the left cup. The right side cup can be installed without the BB in there at all. When finally tightening the left cup is where all trouble is. If not properly held, by the peg, or any other means, the friction may cause it to rotate just enough to damage the wires. If you don't watch it, if the 14mm bolt and center peg is in place first, the peg may rotate and allow the damage.......you get the idea. With just a little attention, and logic, it's really no issue at all. The center peg doesn't do anything mechanical other than make the hole smaller down there to keep debris out, after it's all in place, and tight. Due to the short wires, they really stay there, and don't fall off.
 
Thanks, HH. And, thanks, Currie Tech member. You have answered my question on what I am to do to keep the BBTS from moving while torquing down the caps? By the way, HH, do you apply an additional 3-4 foot lbs of torque on both sides? And this question is for the Currie Tech: Didn't you mean to say, "if the 14mm bolt and center peg is NOT in place first," rather than, "is in place first"? The peg will rotate if not in place first, right? And I take it we are to keep an eye on it so that it doesn't rotate beyond the 9 and 11 o'clock positions allowed.

Boy, I am looking forward so much to this bike running smooth again in pedal assist. Holding that throttle is just unbearable for me, as I noted before how it makes the fingers on my hand start to go to sleep. But it is definitely a good back-up for when things like this pedal assist quit working. It just seems to use more battery energy though when doing so.

And, by the way, when the bike was in the shop being fitted with that new BB, on the rack in the bike shop I had them turn it on and run through the diagnostics on the bike stand (something that they didn't know how to do). Right away, diagnostic code number one showed a value at 008, and then gave an error 4 code, when it should have been in the 500's like the first BB sensor that originally came with the bike, with the second diagnostic code (#2) being plus or minus 8 of this number when pedaling. I didn't check that one on this second sensor. I really didn't need to. And when I told the shop this value we were getting of "008" wasn't right, they definitely didn't know what to think of that, because they were not familiar with these codes as us experts now are. But I did also check code 3 while pedaling on the stand, and then in throttle mode. While pedaling, the value didn't increase as it should; in throttle mode it did. So, that serviceman did something wrong before I had even taken it outside for both him and I to do a physical test run on the bike. And he wants to now accuse me of being at fault by just backing out that bottom nut to take a look at things? This isn't the first time in my 61 year lifespan that a serviceman has tried to deny that he did anything wrong. It happens so often that it isn't even funny. I too plan to put on this third sensor myself. You have inspired and empowered me, HH! I now have all the tools I need---and I, for one, have read the instructions on what to do and what not to do. I use to be a leadman in a machine shop that programs, sets-up and operates CNC lathes and mills. So, in comparison, installing this sensor should be a piece of cake---as long as one pays close attention to the instructions. What is good for one (a bicycle in this case), is not necessarily good for all! There is no margin for error here. We must follow the instructions and always be willing to learn from someone else, even when we think that we know all that there is to know about something. We are ever learning.
 
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Hi everyone. I am happy to announce that the replacement BB sensor sent to me by Chawn at Currie Tech, and for which I INSTALLED THIS TIME AROUND, is working absolutely perfect. This replacement BB sensor seems to be working better than even the one that originally came with the bike (not to say anything of the one installed by the dealer and never worked at all).

I found that if I torqued very slowly the left cup of the bottom bracket, that I got no rotation (or movement) of the sensor with its wires—and that is good! The insert (or peg) now sits completely flush into the nut with the flat side in the I.D. located at 3 o’clock, with the wires sitting flat against that (as they ideally should), and with the split groove on this insert sitting perfectly at 9 o’clock. With those cups properly tightened, the least path of resistance is now with the spindle freely moving, and not with the sensor and its housing. It's all a matter of physics. That sensor with its wires should now never move, unless there ever becomes something internally binding between the sensor housing and the spindle.

For anyone attempting to do this themselves, I would also recommend using electrical tape to tape together the male and female wire connectors of the wiring harness after connecting them. The reason that I say this is because when I tried to pull that connector out of the down tube, the connector came apart, leaving the other half still in the tube right near the opening of the large hole (thankfully). I was able to hook that part and retrieve it out of the hole. Should I ever have to pull those connectors out again, the tape will make sure that those connectors will not come apart. The clip holding these connectors together should be redesigned to be more stable and secure. It should not come apart in the tube while pulling on those wires. And speaking of connecting tabs, the one on the junction box under the display needs to be like the old ones that were screwed together. That thing too can come open if not properly secured. I cinched a black plastic tie around mine so that it stays shut.

I also recommend a set screw of some kind in future designs to add additional strength in holding that BB sensor with its housing in place. Not only for tightening purposes, but also if there were to be any loose cups. It definitely can’t hurt. All of us need a little help from our friends.

Additionally, I sure appreciate having now the pedal assist, which adds a noticeable difference in power than just when in throttle mode. I wouldn’t have one of these bikes any other way.

I also asked Chawn if my hub motor was one of the first ones with the glue problem. It was. He sent me a replacement of one of those also with the new and improved bonding agent for the internal magnets. I have yet to put that on my bike. I will keep everyone posted if there is any difference in feel in that “cogging” effect that many have talked about, including with myself. I am starting to feel like now that I can go on that 40 mile round-trip that I have been planning, which is pretty much on level pavement. This bike is truly a joy to ride when everything is working as it should.

Thanks Chawn, at Currie Tech. And, thanks HH, for your input also. Now we have at least three experienced technicians here, that I know of.
 
No. Even though he had the serial #, it ended up really being based on photos of stickers on my hub I emailed to him.
 
"..I also asked Chawn if my hub motor was one of the first ones with the glue problem. It was. He sent me a replacement of one of those also with the new and improved bonding agent for the internal magnets. I have yet to put that on my bike. I will keep everyone posted if there is any difference in feel in that “cogging” effect that many have talked about, including with myself. I am starting to feel like now that I can go on that 40 mile round-trip that I have been planning, which is pretty much on level pavement. This bike is truly a joy to ride when everything is working as it should...."

...so you have already experienced that effect? (due to the loose internal magnets)...or are you expecting to feel it (again, as well) with the replacement hub...that hasn't been installed as of yet?
I must not be understanding (sorry). To be honest, I was really hoping to keep the 'bad' hub motor myself since this was already known to be a non-fixable issue yet sent it back (as instructed).
Did anybody else get to keep theirs?
 
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