Bionx battery callibration question

[Colin L]

Hi, I have 3 bionx batteries at various life stages two 40.7 v and on 48v on a Trek Ride + Valencia.
I have tried to calibrate them all by running them all the way down until they make the flat battery sound.
Can anyone explain, am I callibrating the battery or am I callibrating the console ? Does in confuse things to swap batteries over ?

 

[RandallS]

I am pretty sure you are calibrating the battery, but I reserve the right to be wrong. It's frustrating to find info on these products but that's the way the cookie crumbles...

I have an issue with my older 36V system (2011) where the SOC on the console is valid for about 200 meters. I will start out with a full charge and with the SOC on the console indicating such, but almost right away, it shows fully discharged! But, I can still cycle 35+ km although my range anxiety begins at 30 km. Last year I went 57km before I got the low voltage beeping.

I've followed all the instructions for recalibration, resetting console etc, but I cannot find anything on how to fix this. It's even been back to the shop for recalibration, but they haven't done Bionx stuff for a while.

Anybody have any ideas on what to do?

 

[CdnShaun]

Hello Colin and Randall, nice to meet you.

I just joined EBR and getting to know the forums and threads. I believe I might be of a bit of help to you, I will try my best. I'm self taught on Bionx, not a bike shop or dealer. What I do happen to have is 6 Bionx motors, currently 3 installed, 7 Bionx 48V batteries and most of all -

The BIB controller device and the software with the debug mode to see more of what is going on with the console, battery, and motor.

First, to get started - here is the last retail source I have found who has Bionx parts, a lot of it new inventory he bought up when Bionx went under and can be helpful -

BX Legacy

BX Legacy

www.bx-legacy.com

I have purchased lights, controllers and harnesses from him and everything was brand new, the experience was great (received my order in a couple days - he's out of Quebec Canada and I'm in Ontario, just to note for shipping) and if what you need, for example for Randall a replacement console might be worth considering - he is a source that could have it.

For Colin, my understanding of the batteries is that you did the correct technique and when you charged the battery back up - you may see the green light on the battery flash for a while - this is the BMS rebalancing the cells within the pack.

As for swapping battery experience - I rotate through all 7 of my batteries through my 3 active Bionx bikes without any issues. I get 25-40kms per battery with the predictable behavior of how much assist is given when above 70%, 70% to 20% and below 20%.

Also, if you find you ever have a battery that won't charge up to 100% - this is most likely just one group of cells (in the 48V/11.6Ah batteries there is 13 groups of 4) is not charging up to the proper 4.0-4.2V's and causing the overall battery to diminish - 2 of my 7 experienced this and I could only charge to 80%.

There is a gent on Kijiji out of Toronto who worked at Bionx and built the batteries in the original factory. I dropped off each battery (separate occasions) and he quickly confirmed the issue to be a group of 4 cells. Knowing that the few limited choices for still buying a new 48/11.6Ah battery are asking $900-$1100 (cdn) I took him up on his $160 offer per battery for his labour and cost of replacement cells to repair my battery. Both batteries are back to normal operation and range for me now and been used for 9 months and 3 months since repaired. If you need his details let me know and I will send it to you.

Last but not least, for your Bionx setups - some insight for you.

The software the shop had for doing debugging and support is designed to 'call home' to servers for updates over the internet. The Europe based team of Bionx kept those servers online until earlier this year and they now been shutdown. If you get the software and has the data files for your equipment you can use it still by rolling back the computer's date - or you might be able to get a copy of the software without the call home feature and do not need to change the date - I'm looking more into what software versions are available.

On the note of the software and BIB controller to access your equipment, check out this specific page from BX Legacy:

BIB - BionX Interface Box, USB to CAN bus converter. 01-4672

BionX Interface Box This tool is a USB to CAN bus converter. It is used with BBI software (BionX Bike Interface) in order to connect the computer to the bike components. A copy of BIB USB drivers windows installer can be downloaded from BX-Legacy by clicking here. Or visit FTDI web site for more...

www.bx-legacy.com

I have purchased 2 of these controllers from BX Legacy and by having the software already in hand (with my original BIB I bought from a source) was able to confirm the BIB sold to me worked.

Linked on the page above is details about downloading the software. As per BX Legacy's recommendation, make sure you can get the software downloaded and installed first and if/when successful you can order the BIB from him (while quantities last) to go with the software and be able to get inside your configuration.

I will update you both when I have had a chance to try the downloaded software and assess it. My main interest in it is to have it not require my computer's date rolled back to 2019 to work but also want to see what data packs it has and of course most of all, make sure I can get it working based on have experience with the software.


Let me know if I can help any further with your Bionx equipment. As you can see I'm a big fan of their equipment, sad they went bankrupt like everyone else, and holding on to my Bionx equipment (and riding them all the time!) like a bit of a collector as well.

Cheers
Shaun

 

[RandallS]

Thanks Shaun,
When I had my bike back in the shop a couple of months ago at Power in Motion (here in Calgary) I am pretty sure they had everything they needed, other than the knowledge, on how to fix the issue.
I think I am at the point where I do want to move onto something more modern. I've got a pair of pretty ruined legs (will need a new knee and the other one got pretty messed up after a significant fall), so I need the assistance to be there when I need it.

What I've got now has served me well but unless I can find a simple fix I probably will not throw any more money at this current rig.
The bike is immaculate, so I should be able to sell it with or without the Bionx kit still on it.

However, I eagerly await your results - I have been known to change my mind!

Cheers from Calgary,
Randall

 

[CdnShaun]

Thanks Shaun,
When I had my bike back in the shop a couple of months ago at Power in Motion (here in Calgary) I am pretty sure they had everything they needed, other than the knowledge, on how to fix the issue.
I think I am at the point where I do want to move onto something more modern. I've got a pair of pretty ruined legs (will need a new knee and the other one got pretty messed up after a significant fall), so I need the assistance to be there when I need it.

What I've got now has served me well but unless I can find a simple fix I probably will not throw any more money at this current rig.
The bike is immaculate, so I should be able to sell it with or without the Bionx kit still on it.

However, I eagerly await your results - I have been known to change my mind!

Cheers from Calgary,
Randall

What type of console do you have - G2 or DS3?

 

[RandallS]

What type of console do you have - G2 or DS3?

G2

 

[CdnShaun]

G2

Does the shop you did go to happen to have a spare G2 console and did they test with it by chance? If not do you know anyone who has one you could try for a ride?

Since the motor and battery actually work properly and you just have to wait for the audible warning from the battery itself (I feel your pain) I suspect the issue is in your console - a test ride with another G2 console would be a great test if possible?

 

[RandallS]

Does the shop you did go to happen to have a spare G2 console and did they test with it by chance? If not do you know anyone who has one you could try for a ride?

Since the motor and battery actually work properly and you just have to wait for the audible warning from the battery itself (I feel your pain) I suspect the issue is in your console - a test ride with another G2 console would be a great test if possible?

Thanks for your inputs. I know exactly where to get another console as I sold my wife's bike that had the same setup. I know I can borrow the console for a test. This will likely happen on Thursday. Stay tuned!

 

[CdnShaun]

Excellent - great next troubleshooting step. If the other console works let me know and I will help you source a replacement for your bike.

 

[RandallS]

Excellent - great next troubleshooting step. If the other console works let me know and I will help you source a replacement for your bike.

Well, isn't this interesting - they are different! The one the left is mine.

 

[CdnShaun]

Well, isn't this interesting - they are different! The one the left is mine.

That is interesting - not seen that before. When I return to my other home this weekend I will find the G2 console I have and compare it to your photo, see how it matches up.

Just curious, did you try sliding it on? Guessing it didn't work?

 

[RandallS]

That is interesting - not seen that before. When I return to my other home this weekend I will find the G2 console I have and compare it to your photo, see how it matches up.

Just curious, did you try sliding it on? Guessing it didn't work?

It does slide on but as pinouts aren't the same, wouldn't power up. That's when I flipped them over and looked. To be honest, I was flabbergasted. WTF?

 

[Scott Adams]

It does slide on but as pinouts aren't the same, wouldn't power up. That's when I flipped them over and looked. To be honest, I was flabbergasted. WTF?

I've seen reference to this in a BionX document I was browsing last year. I don't recall why they made "left and right hand" versions, but it was mentioned. Sorry this wasn't much help.

 

[CdnShaun]

It does slide on but as pinouts aren't the same, wouldn't power up. That's when I flipped them over and looked. To be honest, I was flabbergasted. WTF?

Question - the person you borrowed the console from - could they lend you their 'mount' as well? The mount if I recall should connect to your battery/battery mount - does mean taking their mount off their handlebar but that's only a screw or two.

Just a thought?

 

[RandallS]

Crapola!
Swapped mounts and console and similiar results. I thought for a while you'd nailed it, but at 9km, it went from around 75% down to zero, just like mine does sometimes. Usually it's almost right away. Anyways, I went another 20km with it at zero and power boost was still there.

 

[CdnShaun]

Crapola!
Swapped mounts and console and similiar results. I thought for a while you'd nailed it, but at 9km, it went from around 75% down to zero, just like mine does sometimes. Usually it's almost right away. Anyways, I went another 20km with it at zero and power boost was still there.

Damn, I thought we had it as well.

Just curious - the friend you are borrowing parts from - same battery type (voltage, dock, etc) as yours? As it appears to not be in the console like we thought, might be the propriety BMS/code in the battery?

I had the opposite of you today. I was out with 5 of my batteries for a long ride. Got to battery #4 in my planned route and I normally get 25-35kms per battery (270# rider, 60# of batteries and water bottles, lol) and after 8kms it felt....weak. by 14kms I was getting only 15-21% (felt like none) assist yet the battery was showing 62% charge left.

Thankfully I had stretched Batteries 1-3 before this and had enough juice in Battery #5 to get me home. I'm going to drain the failing battery to 10% and charge it up again, see if that re-balances it and look at it with my BIB controller/software.

Just wanted to share - you're not alone with your Bionx headache. Let me know if your friend has a matching battery and willing to let you try a battery swap (yours on their bike, their battery on your bike) -as you can see in my case with multiple matching batteries I was able to determine I had a faulty battery, no issues with the motor (thank goodness) or console in my case. Hoping you might have the same option as well to put this issue to bed.

Cheers!

 

[CdnShaun]

RandallS - are you in Ontario? the GTA?

 

[RandallS]

RandallS - are you in Ontario? the GTA?

In Calgary, but friends in KW, Burlington, etc, some family in GTA. When a youngster, lived in Montreal.

 

[RandallS]

Damn, I thought we had it as well.

Just curious - the friend you are borrowing parts from - same battery type (voltage, dock, etc) as yours? As it appears to not be in the console like we thought, might be the propriety BMS/code in the battery?

I had the opposite of you today. I was out with 5 of my batteries for a long ride. Got to battery #4 in my planned route and I normally get 25-35kms per battery (270# rider, 60# of batteries and water bottles, lol) and after 8kms it felt....weak. by 14kms I was getting only 15-21% (felt like none) assist yet the battery was showing 62% charge left.

Thankfully I had stretched Batteries 1-3 before this and had enough juice in Battery #5 to get me home. I'm going to drain the failing battery to 10% and charge it up again, see if that re-balances it and look at it with my BIB controller/software.

Just wanted to share - you're not alone with your Bionx headache. Let me know if your friend has a matching battery and willing to let you try a battery swap (yours on their bike, their battery on your bike) -as you can see in my case with multiple matching batteries I was able to determine I had a faulty battery, no issues with the motor (thank goodness) or console in my case. Hoping you might have the same option as well to put this issue to bed.

Cheers!

Not exactly the same, but same series with smaller capacity. It was my wife's bike before but she can't ride anymore (MS). I'd got mine to be the same as hers so if she ran out of power, we could swap batteries and I could muscle mine home if need be. Both bikes are Electra Townies with Rear Rack batteries. The woman who has it now wants to go for a spin with me in a couple of weeks as she's off to do some grandchildren "sitting" out of town so we can't do it right away.

The main reason I want to get this fixed is I want to sell my rig and I'd prefer it to be in 100% working order.

I am 99% sold on a more modern "nimble" rig like a Specialized Vado or a Giant Express +2. Both are hard to find around here right now but I've got a line on a Vado 5 stepthrough and I think I am going to drop the big $$$ and just buy it and go out and enjoy it.

Thanks for your assistance in trying to get to the bottom of this. It's fabulous gear, but very proprietary and I want to get a bit more normalized for the next one.

 

[CdnShaun]

Not exactly the same, but same series with smaller capacity. It was my wife's bike before but she can't ride anymore (MS). I'd got mine to be the same as hers so if she ran out of power, we could swap batteries and I could muscle mine home if need be. Both bikes are Electra Townies with Rear Rack batteries. The woman who has it now wants to go for a spin with me in a couple of weeks as she's off to do some grandchildren "sitting" out of town so we can't do it right away.

The main reason I want to get this fixed is I want to sell my rig and I'd prefer it to be in 100% working order.

I am 99% sold on a more modern "nimble" rig like a Specialized Vado or a Giant Express +2. Both are hard to find around here right now but I've got a line on a Vado 5 stepthrough and I think I am going to drop the big $$$ and just buy it and go out and enjoy it.

Thanks for your assistance in trying to get to the bottom of this. It's fabulous gear, but very proprietary and I want to get a bit more normalized for the next one.

Thanks for all the details RandallS, makes helping you even easier.

I do love my Bionx equipment as well - even if the 3 bikes, 6 motors and 7 batteries I own are becoming 'collector car' like already, lol. This summer however may be the transition I am resisting - I'm building out 3 new fully customized bikes and if I find I'm no longer riding the Bionx bikes at all - may be time to let them go as well.

I asked about being in the GTA as I have by luck found a gent who worked at Bionx for years building the batteries. He now offers a side business out of his house where he will assess and if possible repair a battery, so far he has fixed 2 of mine with success. If you were in the GTA and we determine it's your battery I thought you could perhaps look to him for a possible fix.


Are you able to borrow the battery from the lady who has your wife's previous bike?

Two tests in mind actually, since you know the lady well that has the other compatible battery bike -

Test 1 - Borrow the battery from the nice lady and go for a ride on your bike. If it works properly this confirms your motor (and the controller within it which is my new thought/concern) and everything else is working fine.

Test 2 - (Optional) - Lend your battery to the nice lady and she takes it for a ride (or you can go for the ride perhaps? just thinking out loud) and see if the behaviour transfers over to her bike.


If Test 1 fails, then it's likely your controller in the motor.

If Test 2 fails, then it's likely the BMS in your battery.

All I'm doing here is thinking like a bike shop would have 7 years ago when working with your equipment and having other compatible bikes/batteries/etc on hand to test with. You technically don't even need to go for a ride if you can prop the rear wheel up/suspend it off the ground with a rope (or a bike stand if you have access to one) and then just tape over the throttle/hold the throttle to see how it behaves. Naturally 2 test rides will be the most accurate measurement, just putting ideas out for you to consider.

Good luck and keep me posted.