Battery Mania

[PedalUma]

I suspect that the problem is greater than the battery. I am thinking that the hub has a heat cutout. That feature is good for self preservation.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Good point... Good to verify whether the motor shut down or the battery.

 

[Tigertone]

I suspect that the problem is greater than the battery. I am thinking that the hub has a heat cutout. That feature is good for self preservation.

Possible, it may be the hub motor but I don't think so because I kept checking the hub and it wasn't getting very hot and I was applying plenty of peddle assist to help preserve the battery. Also it was a winters day and not a blazing hot summers day. Finally, there is one other clue that points very much to the battery as being the chief culprit and that is: Someone on ebay is trying to flog the exact same battery for 35 quid that cuts out exactly like mine and that combined with all the rest of my detective work is why I have sent it back

 

[tomjasz]

I've not looked into the specific differences and I'm sure pure nickel would be a bit more weather proof, but within the case does it necessary need to be?
Is the nickel/steel more resistive electrically? Perhaps it's stronger physically? I guess a lot has to do with the quantity of the steel and the nickel plating.
Are the cell end caps pure nickel?
For example many home services are aluminum, same as the electric company's distribution lines. You could go with copper service cable, but the occasion that the aluminum ones fail are practically nil.

What was Jenny's reasoning (other than cost)?

Pure nickel has lower resistance than nickel-plated steel, which means less heating and energy loss.

Jenny like UPP claims it's much more expensive to use nickel. But when I look at wholesale Alibaba prices, it doesn't ring true for me. Yes more costly but not prohibitive.

That said I have had more nickel coated than pure nickel batteries, and as I understand resistance using heavier gauge-coated ribbon solves the resistance issue. HOWEVER, I have seen a significant number of packs with, as you surmised perhaps lower-quality nickel coating, with significant corrosion.

Another reason I spend time on every cased pack working RTV into any seam. EM#ev has done this for years and it seems to be a good idea.

As I'm typing this I'm thinking once riders start messing with high voltage, 60V, and 72V packs pulling over 30A the ribbon material likely becomes more critical. I don't know that it's just a thought.

 

[PCeBiker]

,.. Someone on ebay is trying to flog the exact same battery for 35 quid that cuts out exactly like mine and that combined with all the rest of my detective work is why I have sent it back

Here's a battery on Amazon for $75 CAD. It includes a charger.

It's a 100ah battery. Lol

 

[tomjasz]

Here's a battery on Amazon for $75 CAD. It includes a charger.

It's a 100ah battery. Lol

View attachment 149446

BOMBS AWAY!

 

[tomjasz]

What was Jenny's reasoning (other than cost)?

The article mentions Pedego Ebikes, and we are proud to say we have been one of battery supplier for Pedego ebike manufactuers for years.

The lithium ion battery mainly consists of cells,BMS and insulated materials. So how to choose cells and BMS and how to improve the insulation in production are most important to build a safe battery. Also the capacity testing is a must before shipment, where false or missing solering, or defective cells or BMS all can be found out.

The imported cells like Samsung, Panasonic/Sanyo,LG and Chinese 18650/21700 cells are all safe to use as there are CID (Current Interrupt Device), pressure relief valve, and PTC (Positive Temperature Coefficient）thermistor. And the pressure relief valve is the most important explosion-proof barrier due to over-discharging ,short circuit...

 

[PCeBiker]

BOMBS AWAY!

Blowed Up Real Good !!!

 

[Gionnirocket]

Pure nickel has lower resistance than nickel-plated steel, which means less heating and energy loss.

Jenny like UPP claims it's much more expensive to use nickel. But when I look at wholesale Alibaba prices, it doesn't ring true for me. Yes more costly but not prohibitive.

That said I have had more nickel coated than pure nickel batteries, and as I understand resistance using heavier gauge-coated ribbon solves the resistance issue. HOWEVER, I have seen a significant number of packs with, as you surmised perhaps lower-quality nickel coating, with significant corrosion.

Another reason I spend time on every cased pack working RTV into any seam. EM#ev has done this for years and it seems to be a good idea.

As I'm typing this I'm thinking once riders start messing with high voltage, 60V, and 72V packs pulling over 30A the ribbon material likely becomes more critical. I don't know that it's just a thought.

I ass_umed the nickel coated steel would have a higher resistance... but then I also assumed that could be overcome with size and surface area. Also higher doesn't necessarily mean out of a more than usable range... but without actual specifications, I'm just thinking out loud. Point being sometimes we want things gold plated but it really doesn't matter in the real world and the difference can only be seen on bench top test equipment. Reminiscent of audiophiles and bi_wire speaker cable.

Corrosion is a concern as you never know how a battery may be used in the future.

That said.. I agree the added cost has to be negligible per pack. Maybe the steel is easier to work with... But again, guessing. Never really had any interests in building.
Thanks for the consigliere Santó

 

[PedalUma]

I was saddled with a bum battery. It was fully charged but had lithium crystals growing out of it. I kept it outside under an upside down steel wheelbarrow for several days. And then I put it underground. I will keep it there for about a year. I don't want to blow up and catch fire.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I kept it outside under an upside down steel wheelbarrow for several days. And then I put it underground. I will keep it there for about a year. I don't want to blow up and catch fire.

Same thing I did with the ex...

Why not take it to a recycle center?

 

[PedalUma]

Same thing I did with the ex...

Why not take it to a recycle center?

I don't want to be near the thing. I will let it slowly and safely discharge underground first.

 

[AHicks]

I don't want to be near the thing. I will let it slowly and safely discharge underground first.

Throw it in a 5 gallon bucket of water for a week or 2 (big enough to submerge the entire battery). I promise you, that WILL neutralize it. Then, the only question becomes what do you do with a "neutralized" battery that size?

At least you won't have to worry about it burning down a city block or something....

 

[PedalUma]

With all this rain, it's getting plenty of water, safely underground. If I see a blackened crater, I'll know what happened.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

I was saddled with a bum battery. It was fully charged but had lithium crystals growing out of it. I kept it outside under an upside down steel wheelbarrow for several days. And then I put it underground. I will keep it there for about a year. I don't want to blow up and catch fire.

Oh, what does a lithium cell look like when they start forming crystals? I tried to google it, but I get rocks.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Oh, what does a lithium cell look like when they start forming crystals? I tried to google it, but I get rocks.

Smoke'm

 

[Slaphappygamer]

Smoke'm

Sorry. No crystal smoke for me. Just Vado. Lol

 

[PedalUma]

There was water ingress and the guy fully charged it after, hoping that would fix it. White crystals were growing out of the Hilong discharge port. That is the lowest part of the battery, where the water settled. The area around the battery's lock at the left top was open to the elements, that's where the water, rain, came in. The bike was non-functional. It was also a mess of wires, connectors, and zip ties. Sloppy backyard build. The brakes and shifting didn't work. This is what I did. It is a BBS02. Zoom the down tube and HB. The guy still owes me some money that was due over two weeks ago. It is his primary transportation and I gave him a break for a second payment. I will need to go to his employer.

 

[Kayakguy]

Having just completed a conversion of my wife's Giant bike to a pedal assisted rear hub drive, I was anxious to try it out. So, for my first ride I made it short and steady and all went well so I decided to up the tempo by going further. The journey was mixed terrain and 6miles later and with half a tank of duice left all was going swimmingly until, ...Oops... The battery cut out and refused to come back on until 30 minutes later and pushing the bike up an extremely steep and long hill. So, with home still 4 miles away I decided to hit the gas. finally arriving home feeling slightly knackered after my hill climb, I notice the battery power was still on a quarter.
After a bit of research it appears the the sudden battery power down could have been caused by one or two cells starting to fail and over heating causing the BMS to shut things down.
So, here IAM: Looking for a new battery pack. The question is though, Do I go cheap or invest in something of better quality such as Samsung or Panasonic new 21700 cells ? Any thoughts? What do you suggest???

My Ariel Rider C class has a battery that mounts in front of the downtube, making its connected via prongs that slot into the receiver (iow, not a wire with a plug on the end). Occasionally it will cut out, either as I'm about to start a ride or while I'm riding. Disconnecting and re connecting the battery usually fixes the problem. It also helps to clean the electrodes with denatured alcohol.

 

[Tigertone]

Get yourself a quality battery.. otherwise you'll have more days like today.
Just as important as quality cells, you need a reputable builder so that you can trust the cells are authentic and you won't have other quality issues.
EM3EV is known for their builds as is Jenny Mao

I sent the unbranded battery back and replaced it with Panasonic21700 cells. I then did the exact same ride as I did when the first unbranded battery cut out and the difference was quite remarkable. The Panasonic cells performed really well, even after cycling up a very steep hill they bounced back again and they hold their charge really well. One thing I have learnt with this latest Ebike conversion is that if you cut cost and go cheap you are going to wish you bought a quality branded items in the first place.