Battery end of life

[Ute4492]

My Bulls EVO3 29ers battery seems to be at end of life. I purchased the bike almost 5 years ago. Thousands of miles ridden. love this bike.
I can order a new battery $1200.00 dollars and will take 3 months to arrive. The battery is 37V 17.4 ah.
My question. Would it be possible to purchase a battery, controller, display to replace the stock set-up?
Suggestions thoughts??
Thank you

 

[Ute4492]

Sorry.
It is powered by Brose. It has a Bloks display. Quite sure it is a 2016 model.
Thanks for responding.

 

[Ute4492]

I did contact battery rebuilders. The one in California said there was something about data and could not be rebuilt. https://www.fthpower.com

Unfortunately we are not able to repair batteries with proprietary data system such as Bosch, BionX, Shimano, Yamaha and other similar system. These systems have a data line between the batteries and the bike controller systems. The information on these data lines are not available from the manufacturer. If we were to replace the cells on these batteries, we will have to adjust and re-write the firmware in the BMS (Battery management system) however that information is not available from the original manufacturer.​

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Yours is a tough question all of us will come to, sooner or later in our ebike ownership.

Having a new display and controller on hand may not be a bad idea if your plans are to keep your Bulls EVO.

The big motor giants of ebiking, Bosch, Yamaha and Brose are holding fast in forcing us ebike owners of their motor brands in buying a new battery from them.....no rebuilds in the mix with these guys. No going down the road to a liability lawsuit, while extracting maximum profits from those new battery buyers.

If it were me, and if the bike were in as-new condition; well cared and maintained, it's an easy answer: go for the new battery. 1200 dollars sure beats the 6 or 7 grand Bulls is charging for an ebike these days. And on the other hand, Brose motors have a reputation of internal drive belt failures. The business, Performance Line Bearings, in England, appears to have addressed this situation with an excellent repair scenario: https://www.performancelinebearings.com/brose-motor-upgrade-service/

 

[Ute4492]

Thanks for your reply.
Perhaps my question should be can I convert my bulls ebike from stock battery to after market battery.
Waiting 3 to 4 months for a new battery is the issue for me.
If I could have my current battery rebuilt that would be best. It seems a rebuilt battery will not work with my current controller and display.
Perhaps a rebuilt battery with a new controller and display is a possibility.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Thanks for your reply.
Perhaps my question should be can I convert my bulls ebike from stock battery to after market battery.
Waiting 3 to 4 months for a new battery is the issue for me.
If I could have my current battery rebuilt that would be best. It seems a rebuilt battery will not work with my current controller and display.
Perhaps a rebuilt battery with a new controller and display is a possibility.

Ute, I believe the upper tier motors from Bosch, Yamaha, Brose and Shimano feature an integrated system consisting of their propreitary battery and bms system, display, controller, motor and charger.

I'm as much a layman as anyone else here, but I believe all of these components can "talk" to each other and to introduce a component built by other manufacturers will disrupt that communication. And no motorvating.

I feel your pain as others do too. I have my original 400wh battery for my Yamaha PW powered Haibike Full FatSix in addition to 2 500wh batteries I picked up to extend my riding range 2 summers ago. When they age out, I am either going to hope for someone to have cracked this barrier in rebuilding our packs, or I am going to be out some 1800 dollars for just the 2 500 batteries alone.

My bike is a 2016 model with 12k miles plus on her and all three batteries are still going strong. Is your present batterie that worn out that it will not work as originally designed?

 

[Ute4492]

The battery does not charge up. The charging process starts then after a short while the LEDs on the the battery start flashing and the charger shuts off.
When I power the bike on the battery indicator in the display flashes indicating zero battery level. Assist levels will not function. Whats odd is the 5 LEDs on the battery all light up indicating the battery is fully charged.
If I repeat the charging process several times. When the battery lights flash turn the battery off then reconnect the charger.
I can power the bike on. The display then indicates a full battery five bars. The bike then functions normally. Not confident the battery is fully charged. Kinda thinking the bms is not functioning properly.
There is a new bike shop in town now selling the BUlls brand. Will drop by and see if they can diagnose my battery.
Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I can power the bike on. The display then indicates a full battery five bars. The bike then functions normally. Not confident the battery is fully charged. Kinda thinking the bms is not functioning properly.

When the display shows the battery full... Have you tried to ride and see what mileage you get out of it?

 

[Ute4492]

Going to try that today. When the bike was new I could get 100 miles with level 2 assist.
Going to put it on highest assist level 4 and see how far it will go.

 

[m@Robertson]

The first link that @Timpo gave you interviews Patrick Duggan at hicbattery.com. He lists just about every ebike manufacturer on his rebuild service page (except Bulls of course). Since many are similar proprietary packs, I would see if he can help you. He's definitely very knowledgeable and reliable. Built a custom 31ah hi-draw pack for me a couple of years ago.

Ebike Battery Rebuild Services

www.hicbattery.com

 

[EMGX]

My Bulls EVO3 29ers battery seems to be at end of life. I purchased the bike almost 5 years ago. Thousands of miles ridden. love this bike.
I can order a new battery $1200.00 dollars and will take 3 months to arrive. The battery is 37V 17.4 ah.
My question. Would it be possible to purchase a battery, controller, display to replace the stock set-up?
Suggestions thoughts??
Thank you

It's been done but not with the functionality that you have now.
There is a German Pedelec forum where guys do all sorts of things. Not Brose but they have reverse engineered the Yamaha battery data packets and intervals and devised a dongle for the Yamaha PW motor. I actually made and programed a Arduino dongle based on their early design but they then reported glitches and changed the design several times so I gave up on it because it got too complex for me. I'm not that interested in trying to bypass the Yamaha proprietary battery anymore since I only wanted an extra battery for touring. I now have a bike with a TSDZ2 aftermarket mid drive that I will use for touring and have a couple batteries for that bike. Since I don't ride the Yamaha PW-SE bike that much anymore I doubt that I will ever need a replacement for that bike's battery

Yamaha: Reverse-Engineering - Haibike

ich hätte 3 Stück von gamerpaddy's dongel v4 zum Selbstkostenpreis abzugeben. Sind programmiert, kalibriert und getestet. (Nochmal danke an alle die bei der Entwicklung beteiligt waren!) Falls jemand interesse hat, einfach eine PN senden. Würde dir gern einen abnehmen :-) Kann dir aber...

www.pedelecforum.de

 

[Gionnirocket]

It's been done but not with the functionality that you have now.
There is a German Pedelec forum where guys do all sorts of things. Not Brose but they have reverse engineered the Yamaha battery data packets and intervals and devised a dongle for the Yamaha PW motor. I actually made and programed a Arduino dongle based on their early design but they then reported glitches and changed the design several times so I gave up on it because it got too complex for me. I'm not that interested in trying to bypass the Yamaha proprietary battery anymore since I only wanted an extra battery for touring. I now have a bike with a TSDZ2 aftermarket mid drive that I will use for touring and have a couple batteries for that bike. Since I don't ride the Yamaha PW-SE bike that much anymore I doubt that I will ever need a replacement for that bike's battery

Yamaha: Reverse-Engineering - Haibike

ich hätte 3 Stück von gamerpaddy's dongel v4 zum Selbstkostenpreis abzugeben. Sind programmiert, kalibriert und getestet. (Nochmal danke an alle die bei der Entwicklung beteiligt waren!) Falls jemand interesse hat, einfach eine PN senden. Würde dir gern einen abnehmen :-) Kann dir aber...

www.pedelecforum.de

The main reason I don't think I will ever buy a name brand bike.
I've dropped companies like Sony and Apple for this reason and I refuse to pay a premium to then be Hog_tied to proprietary and overpriced fixes and expansion.

 

[EMGX]

The main reason I don't think I will ever buy a name brand bike.
I've dropped companies like Sony and Apple for this reason and I refuse to pay a premium to then be Hog_tied to proprietary and overpriced fixes and expansion.

I don't regret buying the Yamaha powered bike. I've had a lot of fun with it and it introduced me to what a good performing ebike can do. That said, if I had known about the TSDZ2 including ease of installation and excellent performance, I would have gone that route rather than have purchased the yamaha PW-SE powered bike (a BH Rebel Gravel X). $1,000 for a replacement battery, no matter how high quality, for a bike that I paid $1,500 new, is a hard pill to swallow.

 

[Ute4492]

Going to try that today. When the bike was new I could get 100 miles with level 2 assist.
Going to put it on highest assist level 4 and see how far it will go.

Just rode 7.5 miles on highest assist level. Rode up all the hilly streets around me. The battery level dropped one bar showing 4 bars on both battery and display. That would be 35 to 40 miles on the highest assist level. Seems battery still has pretty good capacity. Powered the bike on and off a few times everything seems normal.
The battery connects to the bike with a Rosenberger connecter. Made sure all contact points are clean. Would like to check the actual voltage on the battery. Not sure how. Will have to research this.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Just rode 7.5 miles on highest assist level. Rode up all the hilly streets around me. The battery level dropped one bar showing 4 bars on both battery and display. That would be 35 to 40 miles on the highest assist level. Seems battery still has pretty good capacity. Powered the bike on and off a few times everything seems normal.
The battery connects to the bike with a Rosenberger connecter. Made sure all contact points are clean. Would like to check the actual voltage on the battery. Not sure how. Will have to research this.

I don't think bad cells suddenly have a good day... So then your thinking that it may be the BMS sounds feasible.
I'd also test the charger as it could be as simple as that. Check and clean pins as well.
Sometimes troubleshooting intermittent electronics failures can have you thinking in all different directions.

 

[tomjasz]

A bit off-topic, but EM3ev builds using D-Powercore Blue Tooth accessible BMS.
BMS Doctor App on your phone can access useful troubleshooting information.

 

[john peck]

Given the initial price of the Bulls, I think you need to discuss this with them In a rather ´firm´ way.
A 36v battery should not cost $1200. I would politely mention the possibility of much negative feed
back in this forum.

 

[m@Robertson]

Considering they want $27 for this water bottle, I don't think high prices are something they are shy about.

BULLS CSB-535L WATER BOTTLE RED

Building the Best Bicycles- BULLS is a top bike manufacturer that offers the greatest mix of eBikes, mountain, urban, downhill, parts & accessories.

www.bullsbikesusa.com

 

[Ute4492]

A bit off-topic, but EM3ev builds using D-Powercore Blue Tooth accessible BMS.
BMS Doctor App on your phone can access useful troubleshooting information.

They do sell a blue tooth dongle that can be added. Its not a feature that was included on my bike.

 

[tomjasz]

No, it uses an app for android or iPhone