BAM bikes identical to Rad Power bikes?

[phoenixtoohot]

How is it that BAM (aka American Quality Health Products) offers the exact bicycles that Rad Power offers, down to the spokes, weight, motor .... everything is precisely the same. I know that Rad sued them for Web site copyright infringement, but the bikes are still available. Does this mean that Rad just orders generic bikes from a Chinese supplier and then tries to market them as uniquely developed by Rad? The clip below is for the identical RadCity bike from BAM.

 

[NemoChitty]

They, American Quality Health Products.... are selling product supplied by EWHEELS.

Our Scooters - EWHEELS

View our scooters, wheelchairs, electric bikes, accessories, and more from one convenient shopping interface!

www.ewheelsdealers.com

There are differences if you look close enough.

Look at the welds between the 2 below.
EWHEELS Vs RAD


Imitation is the greatest form of flattery..

But to be honest, everything that is made overseas will be copied and sold competitively.

Quality, Service & Support, are what separate them.

EWHEEL states a 5yr Warranty.
RAD states 1yr Warranty.

Respectfully, tim

 

[KenS]

eWheels, Electric Bike, Step Thru Electric Beach Bicycle Crusier

Getting around town has never been easier, or more fun, than with the BAM-StepThru electric bike. It’s perfect for ditching the car and getting a healthy commute to work without working up a sweat, trips to the store or just taking a casual ride with friends.

www.ebikedirect.com

It is pretty amazing how close a copy of the Rad City step-thru is sold by this group.

 

[NemoChitty]

Agreed.

Also look at the Forum Listing by Brand Name here....

Discussion by Brand & User Reviews

Discuss electric bikes by brand and if you already own one, share your upgrades and insights including user-created reviews or links and summaries of third party reviews

electricbikereview.com

Well over 100 Name Brands of e-bikes, all sharing many commonly sourced name brand components from the same manufacturers.
Bafang, Bosch, Shimano...etc..etc.

There are bound to be close copies if not direct copies, from the same manufacturer.

Please note, there is a difference between Manufacturer, and Brand Name of assembled sourced components.

Respectfully, tim

 

[phoenixtoohot]

Thanks, but post was about the completed bicycle, not components. Also, BAM is not in the list of brands.

 

[NemoChitty]

I apologize if my post upset you in any way.

Regarding the RadCity Step-Thru Vs EW-Step Thru.
I noticed many differences between the 2 fabricated, welded frames, that they are not sourced from the same vendors/suppliers.

Obviously most of the bolt on supplied components are sourced from the same suppliers.

Below are the side by side views of the RadCity Step-Thu & EW-Step Thru, with just one of the many areas to compare.


A better view of the area indicated for comparison.
Side by side, RadCity Step-Tru& EW-Step Thru.



As far as the rest of the assembled bikes go, all the outside supplied components are obviously sourced from the same vendors.

My background is Manufacturing, and that’s why I look at it, the way I do.

Respectfully, tim.

 

[KenS]

I tried to post a link to the BAM bike but EBR kept eating the link.

Tim is correct. You can see differences. But what was amazing to me was how much effort was expended in creating a look-a-like.

And the fake one is more expensive (S1499 + $100 shipping) than the Rad step thru ($1499 + $0 shipping).

 

[NemoChitty]

BAM supplies many, many,many, outlets with RAD copycat knockoff's.

EWHEELS.

Hottest Electric Scooters | EWheels

These sweet rides come fully assembled and ready to ride. Plus shipping is always free!

www.ewheelsdealers.com

WALMART.

Robot or human?

ewheels bam

www.walmart.com

Rad has filed suit against BAM back in April.

Rad vs. Bam: Seattle e-bike startup calls rival a ‘copycat company,’ sues over alleged ‘knockoff website’

Rad Power Bikes, the Seattle e-bike startup, alleges in a new lawsuit that Phoenix-based competitor Bam Power Bikes ripped off its website layout and e-bike designs.

www.geekwire.com

Respectfully, tim

 

[phoenixtoohot]

Interesting ... Still something is still perplexing when all four models (rover, city, city step thru, and mini), all look identical and have identical specs. I sent the same question to Rad Power, will share their take on it when they reply.

My main point was/is how there seems to be stock Chinese e-bikes that can be re-bagged by different suppliers and marketed as their own products.

I do believe Rad has differentiated themselves by their marketing and support ... but their product itself seems to be generic. Take a look at all 4 models and you will perhaps see where I'm coming from, even if you can find some very subtle manufacturing differences.

Other opinions are always welcome. I will buy 2 Radcity bikes, from Rad Power in the Fall, but it has been a revelation to me regarding "same design / multiple nameplates" that is at play here.

 

[KenS]

I follow your point that there is a lot of commonality among bikes because so much is coming out of the same geographical area. But the bike company specifies the construction of certain components (like the frame) which may differentiate it practically from a look-alike. That difference may be important to the consumer because it signals durability or quality control.

You can argue whether a $10K Pinarello road bike is that much superior to a $5K Giant when they both have the exact same Shimano group.

But here you are talking about two bikes with the exact same price. One of which has a busy forum group that is hashing over every detail of the bike, offering info, critiques, fixes, and mods. The other bike has no presence on the forum. It remains to be verified that it could be essentially the same re-badged bike.

Ken

 

[phoenixtoohot]

Sorry Ken, you totally missed the point, but no worries.

 

[Deleted member 4210]

BAM supplies many, many,many, outlets with RAD copycat knockoff's.

EWHEELS.

Hottest Electric Scooters | EWheels

These sweet rides come fully assembled and ready to ride. Plus shipping is always free!

www.ewheelsdealers.com

WALMART.

Robot or human?

ewheels bam

www.walmart.com

Rad has filed suit against BAM back in April.

Rad vs. Bam: Seattle e-bike startup calls rival a ‘copycat company,’ sues over alleged ‘knockoff website’

Rad Power Bikes, the Seattle e-bike startup, alleges in a new lawsuit that Phoenix-based competitor Bam Power Bikes ripped off its website layout and e-bike designs.

www.geekwire.com

Respectfully, tim

The suit was dropped long ago. The bikes are identical. I've seen them both in person. EWheels supplies basically the same ebike as Rad at the same quality level as Rad, bc Rad is no different than any other white label company, say like an M2S, or Wing, or Ride1up. They don't own their own factory, and many times these factories are building up many ebikes for multiple white label firms. The 5 year warranty is obviously better than Rads and EWheels is a large company that has been around a lot longer than many white label ebike providers in the US. The volume ewheels does globally will likely keep it around a long time. (Much to the chagrin of rad buyers who thought they stumbled upon something unique - Very good marketing by them though. Gotta give them credit for that.)

Aside from Rad, it's not hard to find many copies of other brands of ebikes that are made in China at these third party factories. Another example, is Magnum, Amego, and NCM. All provide the same bikes, with minor variations. Come from same factory.

Versus a firm like Aventon, who is not one of these white label importers. They own their own factory, and have complete control over design, and engineering, and quality control.

 

[NemoChitty]

"The suit was dropped long ago."

This case has not been dismissed and is set for Jury Trial, October 13, 2020.
Yes anything can happen in-between, including both parties agreeing to a dismissal.

That has not happened yet.

06/11/2019
MINUTE ORDER SETTING TRIAL DATE AND RELATED DATES by Judge James L. Robart; Length of Trial: *3-5 days*. Jury Trial is set for 10/13/2020 at 01:30 PM in Courtroom 14106 before Judge James L. Robart.

Rad Power Bikes LLC v. JHR Electric Transport LLC

On 04/03/2019 Rad Power Bikes LLC filed an Intellectual Property - Copyright court case against JHR Electric Transport LLC in U.S. District Courts. Court records for this case are available from Washington Western District Court.

unicourt.com

Also, BAM POWER BIKES, website states, THIS SITE IS NO LONGER OPERATIONAL.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Screen shot of BAM home page.



Respectfully, tim

 

[NemoChitty]

I looked at the BAM offering of, RAD copycat knockoff's.

• Bam-Step Thru / RadCity Step-Thru
• Bam Nomad / Rad Rover
• Bam Folding / Rad Mini
• Bam Urban / Rad City

They are close copies, but there are enough differences that they are not from the same supplier.
The visual differences show different welding and different cut tube geometry.

Conclusion, based on the differences.

• Raw Material.
• Manufacturing Process.
• Fixturing for Welding.
• Welding Equipment.

2 completely separate Manufacturing entities.
Which means, different skilled labor qualifications, management/ supervision, in-process QC & controls.
You get the idea.

After the Navy, I spent 20yrs Out Sourced for Off-Shore Manufacturing.
I've worked with vendors who sent their own Engineers to be on-site when fabricating product for them.

These bike frames, are sourced from 2 completely different entities.

Also, BAMS Instagram, is still up.

Bam Power Bikes (@bampowerbikes) • Instagram photos and videos

129 Followers, 196 Following, 29 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Bam Power Bikes (@bampowerbikes)

www.instagram.com

Respectfully, tim

 

[NemoChitty]

CORRECTION, RAD dropped their suit late last month.

Rad Power Bikes drops suit against Bam Power Bikes

SEATTLE (BRAIN) — Rad Power Bikes dropped its lawsuit filed against an Arizona electric vehicle company on Wednesday that sold e-bikes under the Bam Power Bikes brand.

www.bicycleretailer.com

Respectfully, tim

 

[phoenixtoohot]

As Mike said, he's seen both products and they are identical. The point is that the design is generic, or as Mike says, "white label". There is no value added in the design from Rad Power, which I have to say was both a revelation and disappointment to me. They could be sourced from 2 sources, I don't know. Certainly there could be manufacturing variations from batch to bach or year to year, but the design itself is generic and identical.

Rad, has added value through their marketing and support, not in the design. They imply that they are the designers and they are not. Also, the lawsuit, which has been dismissed, was never about the bicycle design, but about Bam's copying RAd's website. That was a real clue that this was never about the design, as there would be no basis for Rad to sue for a white label design, readily available to anyone.

For me, I'm now looking at the Aventon Pace 500 that Mike mentioned in his post. Why, because they design and manufacture their bikes in California, they are lighter and also offer great support through their dealer network. That's pretty impressive when you consider their bike is competitively priced with the Chinese productions. I would guess that 95% of all bicycles are actually manufactured in China or Taiwan. Trek gets their frames from Giant, all of which are produced in Asia. The difference however, is that Trek, Giant, Specialized, and Cannondale actually design their own products and then procure them from Asia. Rad does not design their products, they just order generic bikes from Asia, market them and support them. I actually like their bikes, and no doubt they are perhaps the most successful DTC company in the U.S.

 

[johnny333]

I me Rad has good support and that is the name of the game to me. Plus support put up with me. I like the looks of some 3,000.00 to 8,000.00 e bikes. But my Radcity does just fine for me.
Johnny McCown 73 and still ticking.
PS you need to look inside to parts to see what they use. I like japan transistors and capacitors on all my motherboards. I have used Asus motherboards for 24+ years.

 

[Mass Deduction]

Interesting ... Still something is still perplexing when all four models (rover, city, city step thru, and mini), all look identical and have identical specs. I sent the same question to Rad Power, will share their take on it when they reply.

My main point was/is how there seems to be stock Chinese e-bikes that can be re-bagged by different suppliers and marketed as their own products.

I do believe Rad has differentiated themselves by their marketing and support ... but their product itself seems to be generic.[...]

There are companies ready and waiting to do that. Promovec for example: https://promovec.com/e-bikes/ Not one decal anywhere on their bikes, as each bike is awaiting customization from the company buying them from Promovec. I've seen online ads for Promovec e-bikes with a caption to the effect of "You want to make e-bikes? We'll help you make e-bikes". And by help you make e-bikes, they mean put your decals on their ready-made bikes, perhaps with other very minor tweaks. Every Promovec ad I've ever seen is aimed at companies who might want to make e-bikes, not end consumers.

As for Rad Power bikes, what is so good about their service and support? Do they do something that a local bike shop can't do? Is there support even as good as a quality LBS? I'm genuinely curious as I have no experience with them. At a quick glance, they look to me like they'd be on the heavy side (I'm used to 40-50 pounds being the norm for a quality e-bike), and that Rad Power bikes have a lot of parts that your LBS can't get for you if something goes wrong.

 

[Mr. sparky]

"Rad Power bikes have a lot of parts that your LBS can't get for you if something goes wrong. "

They [LBS] don't have to as Rad will send you all the parts you need. Great customer service .

 

[AHicks]

"Mass Deduction, post: 224043, member: 26261"
There are companies ready and waiting to do that. Promovec for example: https://promovec.com/e-bikes/ Not one decal anywhere on their bikes, as each bike is awaiting customization from the company buying them from Promovec. I've seen online ads for Promovec e-bikes with a caption to the effect of "You want to make e-bikes? We'll help you make e-bikes". And by help you make e-bikes, they mean put your decals on their ready-made bikes, perhaps with other very minor tweaks. Every Promovec ad I've ever seen is aimed at companies who might want to make e-bikes, not end consumers.

As for Rad Power bikes, what is so good about their service and support?

They generally take pretty good care of their customers. This as compared to potentialy unanswered or not returned calls, and generally not being available. They seem to bend over backwards for you if necessary. Don't believe for a second they are not keenly aware of what an unhappy customer is capable of.

Do they do something that a local bike shop can't do? I would say supply a reasonable product at a reasonable price?

Is there support even as good as a quality LBS? Don't assume you're going to be taken care of by a local shop. Many areas don't even have a shop willing to deal in, or work on e-bikes.

I'm genuinely curious as I have no experience with them. You may be in for a real education, or you may luck out and have a good experience. I'd say your chances are about 50/50 either way.

At a quick glance, they look to me like they'd be on the heavy side. True, they are not known to be lightweights. Many people say that's no big deal. If it is a big deal, move on. I'm sure you can find something lighter.

Rad Power bikes have a lot of parts that your LBS can't get for you if something goes wrong.
Won't get for you would be more likely. If for some reason you can't or won't call RAD yourself to get the part you need, many (or most?) are available on Amazon for instance. Rad uses very few, if any proprietary parts on their bikes. Nothing that will shut you down or leave you with a paper weight anyway.