Mine peaks at 1000 watts but I get passed by roadies on race bikes with no motor as well as people on escooters doing 50mph. What's the law say there?Another plan: wait for guys with the GREAT BIG motors (say 1000w+) to start getting tickets/enforcement actions, THEN worry about the 749 vs. 750 concern. Until then, the difference is pretty much a non event?
My plan is to continue enjoying 1000w+ motors, ridden in a sane manner, as long as I can.
Kinda like dealing with my wife...... you pick your battles carefully
Are 750 watt ebikes actually legal?
- Thread starter Frostybikes
- Start date
David42000
Member
The Safe Speeds Act is in congress and threatens to do exactly that. You don't have to care. I have no problems with states having use laws like speed limits (as long as they are equal) helmets, age restrictions. If your bike has something like 1000 watts continuous, then your shaft output may very well be about 1 h.p. or more--1 h.p. is the federal standard. I understand just riding safely and not drawing attention to yourself. But consider if you get hit and are badly hurt--If Safe Speeds passes, a cop might see your 750 sticker and suddenly the accident was your fault, you don't get your medical expenses paid. Safe riding is a hope, but you can;t guarantee it. Like I said, it's fine if you don;t care. I'm just trying to help people understand the risk they are in.
stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Amflow?
Chargeride
Well-Known Member
The laws are there to protect legislators from litigation.
David42000
Member
Through the e-bike lens, this is not "wrong" per se, but it is highly confused. Everybody talks this way becasue manufacturers advertise this way
It's misleading in your favor as far as power delivered. This is to get around regulations that are too stringent, especially in Europe. The truth is you're not looking at motor ratings when you talk about 1000W and 750W. This is about system power, what the controller will deliver. The term "peak power" here is very specialized to the e-bike industry. Normally a motor manufacturer not trying an endrun around regulations that don't work will rate a motor as continuous and will be honest--this means the maximum sustained current the motor can handle without overheating. It is not a power output rating; mechanical watts, horsepower, and torque describe power output.
"Peak" power in e-bike terms can mean two different things. Peak torque means a very momentary increase in torque as the motor attempts to overcome a suddenly increased load. The motor will either overcome the load or stall. This only lasts for milliseconds. It does not mean additional power you can use for a few minutes to get up a hill. Peak power can also mean that the controller is simply delivering more current. When it means that, all the manufacturer is really saying is that their continuous "motor" rating was false, and not the maximum power the motor can handle without thermal meltdown for indefinite periods; or it caould also mean that you are destroying your motor's performance by weakening the magnets and if you do it long enough the windings will burn out too. That's fine for the manufacturer, they want you to need to buy another motor. If you can use "peak" 1000 watts for an extended time either the 750 continuous rating was false or you're damaging your motor at 1000 watts.
Outside the e-bike lens, peak refers to surge or inrush current at startup to overcome inertia. This can be drastically higher than continuous wattage. It can also be a reference to waveform, the highest point of the wave.
The industry plays games with the terms. But when it comes to the law, it will use standardized terms. You can calculate the maximum power your system can deliver. Multiply volts x amperage and you have continuous watts (or else the system was designed to fail) This is a hardline. 48 volts x 20 amps = 960 continuous watts. To find out actual horsepower at the shaft, multiply continuous watts x efficiency variable and that gets you mechanical watts. ~746 mechanical watts equals 1 h.p.
One of the most overpowered bikes available sold as an e-bike boasts 60 volts and 27 amps and is advertised at 2000 watts for two hub motors that "peak" at 5000 watts. If you do the math that system is capable of handling over 16,000 continuous watts, or else is designed for planned obsolesence. Most would scream that's illegal! that's not an e-bike; but for OPDMD pruposes it is perfectly legal and still an e-bike because the Americans With Disabilities act and other OPDMD laws never specify a ceiling for wattage power and specifically include "electric bicycles."
I hope this helps you understand.
David42000
Member
I guess so. It's a funny thing...I'm good at writing jokes and even complexly layered ones but sometimes even simple stuff goes over my head.
David42000
Member
Ummm...Legislators have immunity. Manufacturers and/or consumers are the ones the law protects.
Chargeride
Well-Known Member
I just guessed that word as some kind of american thing
The best you can do to protect yourself from a lawsuit is to simply stay within your states ebike power laws. My state says no more than 750 watts or 1000 peak. That's what I have. I'm legal under the law. Seems pretty simple. If the law changes, go with it or don't.
David42000
Member
It wasn't but a few days ago I compiled that state list. What state are you in? If I missed something, I'd like to correct it.
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