Anyone put a bigger chainring on their Rover?

[mrgold35]

I'm trying to change out my rear cassette from 14-28t to a 11-28t for a few more top end mph. I did the Dremel trick of splitting the cassette removal tool in half holding the cassette nut in place. How much force did it take to release the nut? Feels like I'm going to bend or break something trying to get it to break free. Just want to make sure there isn't any special tricks to the Radrover when removing the cassette nut that might be different from a regular bike.

 

[thatdude902]

Mine came off fairly easily. I lined up the split like this: so that it wouldn't slip. Plus I used a 12" pipe that I always found to be helpful anytime I need something loosen. It fits over wrench handles and socket wrenches. Bought the pipe specifically for extra torque.

 

[mrgold35]

I've tried again with a cheater bar that gave me leverage out to the length of the tires. The nut doesn't budge one bit. I'm afraid I will break/strip something before it breaks free. Gave up and put everything back together. I still have the 2nd Radrover (wife's) to give the new gears a try. Maybe that nut might be easier? Getting too hot in the Garage to keep going, the couch is calling my name.

 

[JRA]

From what I am reading what you are dealing with is a freewheel, not a cassette. They are different beasts that use the same tool, well at least some do. But differ in how they are removed. For a cassette you need a chain whip to counteract the removal force but for a freewheel you do not.

Freewheel removal is a lot easier if you have a solidly mounted bench vice. Put the removal tool on, thread the nut down til it is not quite tight (this keeps the tool from backing out and being not too tight allows for the tool to not bind against the nut which wouldn't allow the fw to loosen), clamp the tool in the vice and then use the wheel itself by turning it counter clockwise. Sometimes for ones really stuck on there you can enlist a friend to stand opposite and do the same thing. Just make sure you are turning it the right way!

 

[windmill]

The freewheel on my Radwagon was the tightest I've ever removed, the threads appeared to have no grease on them. A long cheater pipe made quick work of it.
A possible cheat is to use a bench vice to hold the tool, and use the wheel as the lever.

Use plenty of grease when reassembling, you'll thank yourself next time you remove it.

 

[Doug Devine]

I've tried again with a cheater bar that gave me leverage out to the length of the tires. The nut doesn't budge one bit. I'm afraid I will break/strip something before it breaks free.

I found the video below extremely helpful. It's an easy way to remove a (stubborn) freewheel without special tools. You just need a nail punch, a hammer, and a pipe wrench. I just replaced my freewheel today with a 11T one via this method...worked like a charm. The author says it's a destructive removal but I didn't find that to be the case. Be careful with the ball bearings (or buy new ones) and you can repack them and reuse the original freewheel.

 

[Gregory Benner]

High all, 1st post, new Mini. Like some others I find it geared a bit low, changing to an 11t freewheels sounds super.

I am a bit confused reading the earlier posts re: which tools so that I don't have to modify anything assuming I get the DNP 18-28.
Thx

greg

 

[MarkElvis]

I also have a new Radmini, which I really like, but unless I'm going up a steep hill I don't have much pedal resistance beyond PAS 1. I.e. PAS 1 is hard work, but PAS 2 is a quantum leap up in power assist, leaving me basically doing nothing even in gear 7. I am also looking into a larger front gear and want to maintain the double chain guard. I plan to take it to the bike shop next week to see what they can come up with.

 

[Gregory Benner]

I also have a new Radmini, which I really like, but unless I'm going up a steep hill I don't have much pedal resistance beyond PAS 1. I.e. PAS 1 is hard work, but PAS 2 is a quantum leap up in power assist, leaving me basically doing nothing even in gear 7. I am also looking into a larger front gear and want to maintain the double chain guard. I plan to take it to the bike shop next week to see what they can come up with.

MarkE, I notice exactly the same thing. When I rented both the Mini and the Rover I noticed a significant different in the PAS1 - Pas2 Power assist in the Mini versus the Rover. The Rover has more assist in PAS1 so the jump to PAS 2 is much more sensible, and useable. The owner where I rented from (Balboa island who had maybe 30 + RAD bikes of all models) said the difference was in the programming? I called RAD Tech Support before I bought, and the lady I spoke with said she didn't think that was the case, thought "maybe" the difference was due to the smaller wheels on the Mini. I don't really agree, that might make some difference, but not all.

Please post as to what you find at your bike shop. The factory gearing, (which works well on their other bikes with larger wheels) seems way too low on the Mini.

 

[MarkElvis]

Greg, I talked to Joe at Rad support and he said that all Rad bikes have the same programming. He indicated that his Rover has the same issue and that a larger chainring, e.g. 46T would make some difference, but Rad does not have any specific product recommendations -- he said check on Facebook to see what people are doing. The bike shop said they could put a larger chain ring on, but would prefer I found the parts for them to install. The right side is an integrated crank pedal and gear and apparently the crank is a not-too-common length.

I'm going to try changing the wheel size in the controller to a larger size and see what happens -- a larger size should mean that it thinks it is going faster than it really is and so might no "assist" so much, which could be good (or bad).

 

[Gregory Benner]

Mark, that is interesting. I talked to someone in tech today (didn't get his name). he sold me the tool they use to R&R the rear Freewheel, it was $15 +$5 shipping. I ordered the DNP Frewheel from Amazon. I will take it to the LBS, but wanted the tool because it seems a bit unique to the freewheel that Rad uses (and it was cheap). Changing from a 14t to 11t in high gear is a 21% change, should make a decent difference?

When I ride with my buddies on their Rovers, at the same speed I am pedaling noticeably faster than they are, I think they have the same gearing, the difference is in the wheels size, 20" v 26"

Good idea re: changing the wheel size on the controller. I assumed it just affected the speedo, but I remember what they always say about assuming anything (lol).

Two of my buddies have Rovers, on PAS1 they are using 50-60 watts, on my Mini in PAS1 I am at 33. The place I rented one also indicated that the programming was different on the Mini v. the Rover. The tech guy I talked to "seemed" to acknowledge this, but said they had no solution. (i.e. no way to change it)

What does your Mini use in PAS1?

This is the freewheel I ordered.

DNP Epoch Freewheel 7spd 11-28 Nickel Plated

 

[MarkElvis]

Greg. Thanks for that info. I'll check and see what I use in PAS1. I know it isn't much. I tried setting the wheel size from 20 (correct size) to 18 and noticed a difference in pedaling effort. That is, using PAS 3 and wheel size 20 I was pedaling with no resistance, but PAS 3 and wheel size 18 I was getting some resistance. The speed displayed is based on the wheel size and the number of revolutions it counts, so the controller thought I was going slower. I then changed the wheel size to 24 and the pedal assist kicks in very quickly and I had basically zero pedal effort (and the speedometer had me going about 20% faster). This was all done on a flat stretch of road. I knew that setting a smaller wheel size would trick the controller/motor into powering faster than 20 mph, but I didn't think it would affect the pedal effort at the various PAS levels.

I am a tad nervous about any LBS messing with the rear wheel because I don't know if it could affect the internal gearing and motor, and thus had focused on the front gear. At any rate, if you get a higher gear AND lower your wheel size, then you should be passing those guys on their Rovers! And, the PAS levels should more evenly match your gearing so that you are contributing to forward momentum and not just idly spinning your pedals.

 

[JTK77]

I've done 46t chainring and 11-28 cassette (not freewheel). Changed to real 750w motor, 35A controller and Lcd3 display. Battery is 52V 17.5 Ah. Huge improvement over stock.

 

[thatdude902]

I've done 46t chainring and 11-28 cassette (not freewheel). Changed to real 750w motor, 35A controller and Lcd3 display. Battery is 52V 17.5 Ah. Huge improvement over stock.

Nice, what kind of speed are you getting (top speed while pedalling)? I've been thinking of upgrading the battery to a 52v 17.5Ah, already did the motor & controller upgrade. Also, with the extra speed now, I'm going to upgrade to hydraulic brakes.

 

[JTK77]

Nice, what kind of speed are you getting (top speed while pedalling)? I've been thinking of upgrading the battery to a 52v 17.5Ah, already did the motor & controller upgrade. Also, with the extra speed now, I'm going to upgrade to hydraulic brakes.

Top speed while pedaling above 30 mph. Hydraulic brake parts ordered... Waiting for Delivery.

 

[Chopperbill]

On the Rover, that tool isn't going to get pass the nut holding the wheel without splitting it. And you can't remove the nut because the hole on the nut is smaller than the connector for the wire. Here's what I had to do to mine when I posted about changing the freewheel earlier in this thread.View attachment 16876

Wish I’d seen that before I destroyed a perfectly good freewheel. I even did a search.

 

[JTK77]

Wish I’d seen that before I destroyed a perfectly good freewheel. I even did a search.

My version of splitted tool.

 

[thatdude902]

My version of splitted tool.

Yeah, for people finding this thread later from search, this method should work better than splitting the tool in halves. The split method worked ok only if the freewheel comes off easy, but if it's tight, the splines will slip.

 

[Chopperbill]

I made mine with the notch and I am going to fit a piece of key stock into the notch in the freewheel is real stubborn. Keep it from distorting. Posted this in the general section but it didn’t get much press. Cant believe Rad is the only bike with this problem.