Anybody know about escooters?

The duke said:
You sound almost exactly like a lot of people who say it's dangerous to ride a bicycle on the streets. A lot of friends and family said I was crazy and had a death wish when I started ebike commuting. Said a texting driver would kill me and it wasn't worth it. A LOT of people see a bicycle as a toy, meant for tooling around safer areas
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There is absolutely no comparison, none between an e-scooter and a two wheeled bike, e-Bike or conventional. Forgetting the fact that instantly a scooter
operator can be thrown over the handle grips at road speed. The original poster spoke of 20-25mph + . At that speed, as mentioned there is zero reaction time.

A scooter has 10-11" wheels. Imagine hitting even a very modest hole in the road, a crash at road speed, 20-25mph riding
a scooter would be immediate and catastrophic. The same hole at the same speed on a full sized bike is most likely navigable.

And to repeat, when riding a scooter, most motorists approaching have no idea what they are looking at. The scooter is nearly invisible from the rear.
And the list goes on and on....Riding one for fun in a safe, non traveled road as a toy would be fun.
 
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a high end scooter made here in the us is 6500 my urb-e thats build in the us is 2200 the higher end Chinese built is the 1200 range.
 
I'll just leave this right here.

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But, “E-scooter injuries, on the other hand, were three times more likely to involve concussions than e-bikes and more likely to cause fractured bones. More people also got hurt overall on e-scooters than on e-bikes, though that’s at least partly due to the greater popularity of the former. During the study’s length, there were some 130,000 injuries related to scooters, compared to around 3,000 e-bike injuries.-scooter injuries, on the other hand, were three times more likely to involve concussions than e-bikes and more likely to cause fractured bones. More people also got hurt overall on e-scooters than on e-bikes, though that’s at least partly due to the greater popularity of the former. During the study’s length, there were some 130,000 injuries related to scooters, compared to around 3,000 e-bike injuries.”
 
Interesting reading... if you look at the data, the relative numbers are small and more difficult to draw statistically valid conclusions. ;)

And compared to e-bikes and scooters, we know a lot more about how risky (and good for our health) riding bikes can be. The same study found conventional bikes caused more than 9 million injuries. They’re even more popular than either e-scooters or e-bikes, though, with around half of all households owning one.

E-scooter injuries, on the other hand, were three times more likely to involve concussions than e-bikes and more likely to cause fractured bones. More people also got hurt overall on e-scooters than on e-bikes, though that’s at least partly due to the greater popularity of the former. During the study’s length, there were some 130,000 injuries related to scooters, compared to around 3,000 e-bike injuries.
 
I think the problem is the scooter rentals have been what has caused the massive amount of injuries. they dint wear helmets they go the wrong way they do dumb things. it would be impossible to compare the two accurately.
 
@The duke please don't. First of all, riding 20-25 mph on e-scooter is a death wish or even worse (getting paralyzed) because virtually any obstacle (like a pothole) can make you fall. If you are riding on a sidewalk, vibrations will shake your bones; no comfort. While riding e-bike on road, it is possible that the rider slams into opening car door; with e-scooter you may slam into opening building door, too. Braking is problematic as well. We have already had cases of death of e-scooterists riding full speed on a bike lane and meeting a bicycle riding opposite.

I could so far see the only place in the world where riding e-scooter seemed to be fairly safe: Berlin, Germany. The German made a law telling you to ride a bike lane as the first option where a bike lane exists (and Berlin has plethora of bike lanes). In case of lack of a bike lane you are allowed to use road; and where you cannot use road, you can ride on the sidewalk. However, Berlin is very specific place and Germany is a very special country:

  1. The max ride speed of an e-scooter is 12.4 mph while all rental e-scooters cannot ride faster than 11 mph
  2. All German riders are paranoiac about safety and of good behaviour: e-scooterists or cyclists; same can be said about car drivers
  3. You can see long lines of e-scooterists taking the rightmost part of their lane and keeping distances between each other. Cyclists overtake them on the left, riding themselves in a line. Same on the road
  4. In case you must ride e-scooter on the sidewalk, you have to crawl as you are the least privileged there.
  5. If you misbehave, be sure Polizei is after you soon.
Still, I had a situation when a fast cyclist almost bumped into me in Berlin - he was overtaking me too closely.

In Berlin, I also rented an e-bike (I think that was Uber). The e-bike was very slow yet observing all the rules I was at my destination far faster than with a rented e-scooter. And I felt far more safe. We are talking about distances not exceeding 2 miles!

I can hardly walk and there are situations where I cannot drive or e-bike is unavailable. Recently, I rented e-scooter in Cracow Poland couple of times to reach destinations in the Old Town. Either it was crowds of people I had to negotiate my way through or it was construction works where I had to walk (e-bike would let me make a fast detour) or it was light rain and that was no pleasure at all. I felt bad and exhausted after each of these rides, never more than 2 miles long! Ah, I also almost had two crashes with taxis in the Old Town on street junctions in the slow speed zone!
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Having said the above, let me only add the first thought I have ever had to get "electrified" was thinking of a good expensive e-scooter. Two rides with Lime in Warsaw made me forget e-scooters and soon I joined the e-bike world.
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@The duke you say your legs get gradually tired with pedalling. I would follow the advice to get a speed e-bike equipped with a throttle. All benefits of e-bike and no need to pedal.

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Stefan Mikes said:
@The duke please don't. First of all, riding 20-25 mph on e-scooter is a death wish or even worse (getting paralyzed) because virtually any obstacle (like a pothole) can make you fall. If you are riding on a sidewalk, vibrations will shake your bones; no comfort. While riding e-bike on road, it is possible that the rider slams into opening car door; with e-scooter you may slam into opening building door, too. Braking is problematic as well. We have already had cases of death of e-scooterists riding full speed on a bike lane and meeting a bicycle riding opposite.

I could so far see the only place in the world where riding e-scooter seemed to be fairly safe: Berlin, Germany. The German made a law telling you to ride a bike lane as the first option where a bike lane exists (and Berlin has plethora of bike lanes). In case of lack of a bike lane you are allowed to use road; and where you cannot use road, you can ride on the sidewalk. However, Berlin is very specific place and Germany is a very special country:

  1. The max ride speed of an e-scooter is 12.4 mph while all rental e-scooters cannot ride faster than 11 mph
  2. All German riders are paranoiac about safety and of good behaviour: e-scooterists or cyclists; same can be said about car drivers
  3. You can see long lines of e-scooterists taking the rightmost part of their lane and keeping distances between each other. Cyclists overtake them on the left, riding themselves in a line. Same on the road
  4. In case you must ride e-scooter on the sidewalk, you have to crawl as you are the least privileged there.
  5. If you misbehave, be sure Polizei is after you soon.
Still, I had a situation when a fast cyclist almost bumped into me in Berlin - he was overtaking me too closely.

In Berlin, I also rented an e-bike (I think that was Uber). The e-bike was very slow yet observing all the rules I was at my destination far faster than with a rented e-scooter. And I felt far more safe. We are talking about distances not exceeding 2 miles!

I can hardly walk and there are situations where I cannot drive or e-bike is unavailable. Recently, I rented e-scooter in Cracow Poland couple of times to reach destinations in the Old Town. Either it was crowds of people I had to negotiate my way through or it was construction works where I had to walk (e-bike would let me make a fast detour) or it was light rain and that was no pleasure at all. I felt bad and exhausted after each of these rides, never more than 2 miles long! Ah, I also almost had two crashes with taxis in the Old Town on street junctions in the slow speed zone!
----------------------
Having said the above, let me only add the first thought I have ever had to get "electrified" was thinking of a good expensive e-scooter. Two rides with Lime in Warsaw made me forget e-scooters and soon I joined the e-bike world.
----------------------
@The duke you say your legs get gradually tired with pedalling. I would follow the advice to get a speed e-bike equipped with a throttle. All benefits of e-bike and no need to pedal.
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HI stefan. I TOTALLY get where you're coming from. I rode scooters throughout europe as well. One of the benefits is that Europeans in general are more aware drivers than Americans tend to be. One major drawback was the cobblestone roads. I chattered uncomfortably on Birds, Limes and Boltz. But I kept in mind that those scooters were largely low end, Chinese made Xiaomi scooters with rear drum brakes, and 8" solid rubber tires. I ask you to keep an open mind and consider that the higher end escooters have hydraulic disc brakes with 203mm rotors, plush, full suspension, and pneumatic, air filled, tubeless tires in the range of 11"-12". In your mind, does that close the safety and comfort gap between the escooter and ebike at all?

Let's compare the $1,300 RadRunner Utility Bike with its 20" tires and no suspension. It's got a 750w battery and would probably make my 20 mile round trip commute.

Side_Profile_Bikes_B_RadRunner.jpg


And now let's compare it to the similarly priced Emove Cruiser that has a 600w motor, but a larger 1560w battery that can easily do double my commute with 40 mile range on its 11" pneumatic tires. It's got full suspension - air in the rear and springs in the front.

IMG_3123_2048x2048.jpeg


You can even add a seat. It collapses to be carried onto a bus or into a trunk. I'm not saying you're wrong....you've got tons more scooter experience than I do. Im just wondering if the upgrades built in to high end scooters don't level the safety and comfort playing field a little more than the dangerous situation you're describing? High end Escooters and small, folding ebikes are looking pretty darn similar to me. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

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I think anything you can sit on rather than be standing would be safer. It seems to me you need an e-moped not the upright e-scooter. Besides, isn't that the state of California defining "anything over 20 mph with a throttle is a moped (light motorcycle)"?
 
The duke said:
You sound almost exactly like a lot of people who say it's dangerous to ride a bicycle on the streets. A lot of friends and family said I was crazy and had a death wish when I started ebike commuting. Said a texting driver would kill me and it wasn't worth it. A LOT of people see a bicycle as a toy, meant for tooling around safer areas
Click to expand...
Perhaps you should use the scooter as a daily commuter. Buy the fastest one you can find (50mph) and blast through your daily commute and then get back to us with your experience. Knock your socks off and of course ride safe! Cheers! ;) 😜
 
The duke said:
I've been trying to use my ebike as a car commuting replacement, but I find myself getting fatigue when trying to do 4 days in a row. It's also tough on rainy days (only patchy rain here in SoCal, never inundating rain).

I've been looking into a standup escooter to use 1 to 2 times per week. It would need battery capacity and rider comfort to go 20 miles per day and be able to keep my ebike speeds of 20-25mph.

On rainy days. I'm planning on throwing on a poncho, then use a scooter for a 1 mile ride to my nearest bus stop and just carry it on. Hopefully I'll stay relatively dry.

There are bunch of capable scooters in the $1,000-1,500 price range. My questions are:

Do scooters, with their small wheels and high rider position, feel stable at bicycle speeds of 20-25mph? Will I be tempting fate on each ride, or will I feel as comfortable and safe as I do on an ebike?

20 miles on a bicycle is a piece of cake. With max assist, I arrive at work comfortable and ready for my day. Will riding 20 miles on a scooter leave me similarly refreshed? No peddling is a plus, but how is that standing position for almost an hour?

Do escooter parts (tires, brakes) wear out about as quickly as bicycle parts? Do they get flats about as often? Trying to figure out what to expect by way of maintenance costs and find out if there are any I haven't thought of.

Do police view 20mph scooters in the same neutral, non caring way they view 20mph ebikes? Or will I be getting pulled over?

Scooters have a smaller and lower profile. Are they harder for cars to see? More dangerous in any other ways?

Bikes work fine in the rain, except for splash up, but aren't portable to get into a bus or Uber with. Is it safe to ride a scooter a mile or so in rainy weather at slow speed or do the wheels lack traction? I think scooters are properly fendered to keep wheel water off my clothes?

On downhills, I'll sometimes pick up speed in excess of 30mph, and feel totally comfortable with this on a bicycle. I dont think scooter motors force them to stay within their speed range. Is 35mph on a standup scooter with 8" or 10" wheels insanity?

Thanks in advance to any scooter riders on people knowledgeable about scooters. Excited to maybe pull the trigger on this.

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For many towns and cities in Central NC a Segway miniPRO/miniLITE is NOT (yet) illegal in a bike lane. Also sold as the Ninebot S, these mini-Segways DO have handlebars available from 3rd parties which make them a stable last mile LightEV and have saved my knees many a time in-town scampering to get to meetings. I have found them available refurbished for the past year+ for about $180 and have both a Ninebot S and a Segway miniLITE. They are so popular, we are creating content to add repair and maintenance of these to our Light EV Association Technical program.

Many people have ridden these in our Drive Electric Week and pre-Drive Electric Earth Day (DEED) EVents. These mini-Segways seem to be far more stable and take significant sized potholes or rough stone driveways without a problem when in-line escooter riders would be thrown off. These self-balancing scooters seem to me a great replacement for mobility scooters for those of us with bum knees and/or hips as long as you can stand on the mini-Segway platform.

I have also HoverKart kits as well, and as long as I wear a bicycle helmet, have a recumbant bike safety flag and stay in the bicycle lanes, I've been left alone by town police riding these to meetings! Not sure the Segway/Ninebot GoKart would be as well received, though it is by far the most fun I have had in a 4 wheel LightEV! The Segway GoKart was to be featured at 2020 DEED EVents; unfortunately all of our April DEED EVents are cancelled by the COVID-19 pandemic!
 
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msw4chl said:
For many towns and cities in Central NC a Segway miniPRO/miniLITE is NOT (yet) illegal in a bike lane. Also sold as the Ninebot S, these mini-Segways DO have handlebars available from 3rd parties which make them a stable last mile LightEV and have saved my knees many a time in-town scampering to get to meetings. I have found them available refurbished for the past year+ for about $180 and have both a Ninebot S and a Segway miniLITE. They are so popular, we are creating content to add repair and maintenance of these to our Light EV Association Technical program.

Many people have ridden these in our Drive Electric Week and pre-Drive Electric Earth Day (DEED) EVents. These mini-Segways seem to be far more stable and take significant sized potholes or rough stone driveways without a problem when in-line escooter riders would be thrown off. These self-balancing scooters seem to me a great replacement for mobility scooters for those of us with bum knees and/or hips as long as you can stand on the mini-Segway platform.

I have also HoverKart kits as well, and as long as I wear a bicycle helmet, have a recumbant bike safety flag and stay in the bicycle lanes, I've been left alone by town police riding these to meetings! Not sure the Segway/Ninebot GoKart would be as well received, though it is by far the most fun I have had in a 4 wheel LightEV! The Segway GoKart was to be featured at 2020 DEED EVents; unfortunately all of our April DEED EVents are cancelled by the COVID-19 pandemic!
Click to expand...
Yes, that is some really cool stuff Segway has been making lately. I like that go-cart conversion kit they make that clicks on to an existing Ninebot. Segway has really stepped up their game compared to when they first came out with the 'two-wheeled, self-balancing personal transporter' which became widely popular. Unfortunately, I remember some kind of tragic accident happening to the owner/founder while testing one of the units. Strange indeed.
 
If you don't need something over 20 miles an hour, I recently added a Levy Plus to my collection and it's been great. It has the 10" tires and solid range but much less than a $1000. Top speed is only around 17/18mph though
 
Just bumping it up... and adding a few tidbits to the discussion:

The fastest e-scooter is "able" to hit 100mph!!! OK, maybe not 100 but 80mph, only because it is limited but I'm sure some crazy dude will find a way to unlock it. Still, let that sink in: 80mph on 11" wheels: Rion Motors. Quite fast and dangerous for people who don't know what they are doing;)

 
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