Another Prodigy Review - Prodigy XC

[GenXrider]

I saw this one posted to the Ride1Up users FB group.

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[AHicks]

No throttle, no safety cut off switches in the brake levers, and too many proprietary parts - including a very expensive battery. Thumbs down vote here....

 

[GenXrider]

It uses a torque sensor based Brose drive/electric system, like a lot of Specialized bikes, so that's why it doesn't have the throttle or brake safety cut-off. The battery is actually only $449 from Ride1Up. For comparison, I think the Specialized battery is over $1000 that also uses a Brose system. But the Prodigy is much less expensive as a whole. You can see the component breakdown here:

Prodigy - Ride1Up | Mid-Drive Electric Bike

The ultimate riding experience. With it's ultra-refined Brose control system, the Prodigy will take your riding to the next level with 15mph

ride1up.com

 

[socal_vp]

No throttle, no safety cut off switches in the brake levers, and too many proprietary parts - including a very expensive battery. Thumbs down vote here....

No throttle means brake cut off is completely unnecessary, the motor is only on when you pedal. . you're not going to pedal and brake at the same time. There are no proprietary parts on this bike, that's probably the best part about Ride1up bikes, they use standard brand name parts on their bikes ie tektro/shimano. The motor is a made by Brose and featured on higher emtb's There is no standardization on ebike batteries on any brand. This is the cheapest mid drive bike (by a long shot) that uses a known branded motor.

 

[AHicks]

No throttle means brake cut off is completely unnecessary, the motor is only on when you pedal. . you're not going to pedal and brake at the same time. There are no proprietary parts on this bike, that's probably the best part about Ride1up bikes, they use standard brand name parts on their bikes ie tektro/shimano. The motor is a made by Brose and featured on higher emtb's There is no standardization on ebike batteries on any brand. This is the cheapest mid drive bike (by a long shot) that uses a known branded motor.

This logic doesn't work for me at all. Conventional PAS types only have power to the motor when you pedal as well - yet they DO have cut off switches? To me, it's not about WHEN the motor is getting power. It's about a safety feature - having an ace in the hole if/when you need it.

No proprietary parts? Have you noticed what motor and battery this bike uses? You think these parts might be found on Amazon?

Speaking for myself, I could install the switches if they were the only issue, but no potential for a throttle? You do as you like, but that's a deal killer right there for me....

 

[socal_vp]

This logic doesn't work for me at all. Conventional PAS types only have power to the motor when you pedal as well - yet they DO have cut off switches? To me, it's not about WHEN the motor is getting power. It's about a safety feature - having an ace in the hole if/when you need it.

No proprietary parts? Have you noticed what motor and battery this bike uses? You think these parts might be found on Amazon?

Speaking for myself, I could install the switches if they were the only issue, but no potential for a throttle? You do as you like, but that's a deal killer right there for me....

The motor is not driving the wheels, its driving the crankset, which is connected to a chain, connected to a freewheel/cassette, there is no scenario where the cranks keep turning due to motor power if your feet are on the pedals. ie the motor cannot propel the bike when you are coasting. This is in contrast to a hub drive, where the motor directly powers the wheel, coasting on motor power is possible, hence the requirement for a cutoff. If the motor fails you're not going to shop for a replacement motor on amazon, you would not do that for a hub motor. As for batteries, I've yet to see interchangeable batteries or standard of any kind. The motor and battery are not some alibaba fly-by-night no name brand. Brose motors are a German brand and are used on Specialized bikes and a host of other ebike brands in Europe. Even if the Prodigy uses Shimano or Bosch branded mid drive motors, you're not going to get a replacement from Amazon, you have to go through a dealer to get it serviced. As for the throttle being a deal breaker. . .that is definitely a personal choice.

 

[teskow]

This logic doesn't work for me at all. Conventional PAS types only have power to the motor when you pedal as well - yet they DO have cut off switches? To me, it's not about WHEN the motor is getting power. It's about a safety feature - having an ace in the hole if/when you need it.

No proprietary parts? Have you noticed what motor and battery this bike uses? You think these parts might be found on Amazon?

Speaking for myself, I could install the switches if they were the only issue, but no potential for a throttle? You do as you like, but that's a deal killer right there for me....

Ok, so this doesn't work for you. Will you be so kind as to recommend something better for comparable price or something that works perfect for you or are you just trying stir the pot to start something?
My opinion this is a very well designed machine that is put together well and will be hard to beat for the money. Yes I happen own one so I can speak from that angle. I decided on this machine but not before doing lots of research and came to the conclusion it would cost a ton of $$$$ more to match it component wise a with a comparable machine. If you can do it tell us AHicks.

 

[AHicks]

The motor is not driving the wheels, its driving the crankset, which is connected to a chain, connected to a freewheel/cassette, there is no scenario where the cranks keep turning due to motor power if your feet are on the pedals. ie the motor cannot propel the bike when you are coasting. This is in contrast to a hub drive, where the motor directly powers the wheel, coasting on motor power is possible, hence the requirement for a cutoff. If the motor fails you're not going to shop for a replacement motor on amazon, you would not do that for a hub motor. As for batteries, I've yet to see interchangeable batteries or standard of any kind. The motor and battery are not some alibaba fly-by-night no name brand. Brose motors are a German brand and are used on Specialized bikes and a host of other ebike brands in Europe. Even if the Prodigy uses Shimano or Bosch branded mid drive motors, you're not going to get a replacement from Amazon, you have to go through a dealer to get it serviced. As for the throttle being a deal breaker. . .that is definitely a personal choice.

You need to do more research regarding hub drives..... Whether or not the motor turns the crank (or any argument mid vs. hub drive) isn't relevant to the extra layer of safety provided by a set of kill switchs.

Actually, if you were more familiar with them, you would realize that you CAN buy many of the hub motors, and mid drives, on Amazon.

"you have to go through a dealer to get it serviced"
From where I come from, that pretty much spells out proprietary parts.

Look, you're free to make your own choices here. I do ALL of my own work, without having to rely on a shop to do it for me. That in mind, I see any logic that tries to make a case for the lack of switches as nonsense. Beyond that, we'll need to agree to disagree.

 

[AHicks]

Ok, so this doesn't work for you. Will you be so kind as to recommend something better for comparable price or something that works perfect for you or are you just trying stir the pot to start something?
My opinion this is a very well designed machine that is put together well and will be hard to beat for the money. Yes I happen own one so I can speak from that angle. I decided on this machine but not before doing lots of research and came to the conclusion it would cost a ton of $$$$ more to match it component wise a with a comparable machine. If you can do it tell us AHicks.

No need to be snarky about it. I'm arguing for the case to make brake kill switches a standard safety feature on all bikes. Arguing they aren't necessary because of the drive type is complete nonsense. While at it I'm stating my preference regarding the use of proprietary parts. I do ALL of my own work, yet in the case of the motor on this bike, and likely some associated parts (the display for instance), I am forced to lay myself out to the mercy of a local shop. That's not going to happen. Check out the lawsuits by the farmers who are unable to work on their tractors. It totally sucks! I fail to see much difference in the case the farmers are fighting in the courts right now vs. the case of bikes using proprietary parts. Google "right to repair John Deere" If you aren't already familiar, you aren't going to believe it...

I am NOT knocking the Prodigy for it's price or it's design. For comparable bike I'd be interested in? Without doing a lot of searching or shopping, a bike with NO proprietary parts, with safety switches and a few more features not found on the Prodigy (a front suspension for instance), this bike makes a lot of sense. Clearly it's a little more expensive, but in my mind it does better on the bucks spent for bang received meter:

Master Every Terrain with Rize MD eBike | Ultimate Adventure Companion

Unlock the full potential of your adventures with the Rize MD eBike. Designed for stability, comfort, and versatility, it's perfect for conquering any terrain. Double your exploration range with our Dual Battery. Start your limitless journey today!

rizebikes.ca

 

[GenXrider]

I am NOT knocking the Prodigy for it's price or it's design. For comparable bike I'd be interested in? Without doing a lot of searching or shopping, a bike with NO proprietary parts, with safety switches and a few more features not found on the Prodigy (a front suspension for instance), this bike makes a lot of sense. Clearly it's a little more expensive, but in my mind it does better on the bucks spent for bang received meter:

Master Every Terrain with Rize MD eBike | Ultimate Adventure Companion

Unlock the full potential of your adventures with the Rize MD eBike. Designed for stability, comfort, and versatility, it's perfect for conquering any terrain. Double your exploration range with our Dual Battery. Start your limitless journey today!

rizebikes.ca

There is a Prodigy that has a front suspension. The Prodigy XC, which is the one mentioned by name in topic and reviewed in the video.

Some really nice things about the Prodigy are that it has a very quiet motor that is very responsive, using a Brose motor torque sensor based system like many Specialized bikes. It's also lighter than the Rize. One alternative mid-drive with a torque sensor would be the Priority Current through the COSTCO deal for a little extra money over the Prodigy. But, at a point, I think I would just spend a little more yet and get a Specialized Vado 3.0, which has some additional power customization of the torque curve and other performance metrics that can be collected and useful phone connectivity. Supposedly, Specialized is going to have parts available for 10 years, but of course, they won't be inexpensive vs. your common Amazon parts. It all depends what really matters to someone. And I'm not looking to buy anything right now as I continue riding my cadence sensor equipped Ride1Up 700.

 

[AHicks]

There is a Prodigy that has a front suspension. The Prodigy XC, which is the one mentioned by name in topic and reviewed in the video.

Some really nice things about the Prodigy are that it has a very quiet motor that is very responsive, using a Brose motor torque sensor based system like many Specialized bikes. It's also lighter than the Rize. One alternative mid-drive with a torque sensor would be the Priority Current through the COSTCO deal for a little extra money over the Prodigy. But, at a point, I think I would just spend a little more yet and get a Specialized Vado 3.0, which has some additional power customization of the torque curve and other performance metrics that can be collected and useful phone connectivity. Supposedly, Specialized is going to have parts available for 10 years, but of course, they won't be inexpensive vs. your common Amazon parts. It all depends what really matters to someone. And I'm not looking to buy anything right now as I continue riding my cadence sensor equipped Rid1Up 700.

Exactly!

 

[Oendaril]

There is a Prodigy that has a front suspension. The Prodigy XC, which is the one mentioned by name in topic and reviewed in the video.

Some really nice things about the Prodigy are that it has a very quiet motor that is very responsive, using a Brose motor torque sensor based system like many Specialized bikes. It's also lighter than the Rize. One alternative mid-drive with a torque sensor would be the Priority Current through the COSTCO deal for a little extra money over the Prodigy. But, at a point, I think I would just spend a little more yet and get a Specialized Vado 3.0, which has some additional power customization of the torque curve and other performance metrics that can be collected and useful phone connectivity. Supposedly, Specialized is going to have parts available for 10 years, but of course, they won't be inexpensive vs. your common Amazon parts. It all depends what really matters to someone. And I'm not looking to buy anything right now as I continue riding my cadence sensor equipped Ride1Up 700.

The vado 3.0 is fairly comparable, though it is $1,000 more expensive and it also has a much weaker version of the Brose (50nm vs 90nm in the Prodigy). To get that motor in the Vado you have to pay 5 grand for the 5.0, though you obviously get the other nice drivetrain upgrades as well. I'd say the Prodigy line is a pretty compelling option if you are handy because most of these parts are widely available, and gives you a really powerful, responsive motor with I think reasonable compromises.

Even the battery is non-proprietary; it is a Phylion pack that you could probably get any of the pack builders to repair or make you a new one if it ever dies and Ride1Up doesn't have them anymore.

 

[ava1ar]

No need to be snarky about it. I'm arguing for the case to make brake kill switches a standard safety feature on all bikes.

None of the big mid-drive btanded motors (Boach, Brose, Yamaha, etc) have brake kill switches (even on bikes costing $10k+) and as was already mentioned you don't need them. Motors cuts off immediately as you stop pedalling (thanks to torque sensor and absence of throttle) and this is what you do when you break - no need in extra complications here. If you ever try to ride one you will get it as soon as you try - it is so natural you don't need to think about it.

 

[AHicks]

None of the big mid-drive btanded motors (Boach, Brose, Yamaha, etc) have brake kill switches (even on bikes costing $10k+) and as was already mentioned you don't need them. Motors cuts off immediately as you stop pedalling (thanks to torque sensor and absence of throttle) and this is what you do when you break - no need in extra complications here. If you ever try to ride one you will get it as soon as you try - it is so natural you don't need to think about it.

So, if you had ever ridden a PAS only powered bike, you would realize just how much rubbish this line of thought really is. THEY shut down the power as soon as you stop pedaling as well.

 

[ava1ar]

you would realize just how much rubbish this line of thought really is

Well, this is you point of view. I personally explicitly bought bike without throttle since I want just a bicycle which rides faster and further, not the motorcycle, where I am just sitting and holding the throttle button. Pedaling/shifting gears is part of fun when riding and I simply don't need throttle at all. Plus it gives me reasonable exercise/cardio which is great plus.

 

[AHicks]

Well, this is you point of view. I personally explicitly bought bike without throttle since I want just a bicycle which rides faster and further, not the motorcycle, where I am just sitting and holding the throttle button. Pedaling/shifting gears is part of fun when riding and I simply don't need throttle at all. Plus it gives me reasonable exercise/cardio which is great plus.

More completely baseless rubbish. Because you have a throttle for instance, there's no gorilla following you around twisting your arm to use it. MANY throttle equipped bikes are ridden by folks pedaling and shifting just as actively as you are. To assume otherwise is just plain uninformed.

I don't NEED an automatic transmission, auto head lights, power windows, intermittent wipers or any of a hundred more features any time I drive my car/truck either. Is my next vehicle going to have them too? Damn right....

You do as you like. I could care less. I would just ask you don't condemn others just because they made a choice you don't agree with - especially when you have NO experience/knowledge of the differences....

 

[ava1ar]

You do as you like. I could care less. I would just ask you don't condemn others just because they made a choice you don't agree with - especially when you have NO experience/knowledge of the differences....

Exactly same feeling from my side - I could care less about your interest only in "non-propitiatory" motors and other stuff. I responded here only because you shitted the pretty descent bike in your first comment here for no reason at all - all the complains you listed there is only yours and most people don't care they can't tweak the engine firmware - they just want a thing which works and Prodigy is doing great for the price. Don't worry - nobody taking away your Bafang stuff, but lots of people want different things from bikes (including me), so remember this when considering your point of view as one and only.

Why should I buy a crappy motor without a torque sensor only because it offers throttle I don't need? If it was there, I am fine, if it is not - I am fine either. There are very few descent motors with torque sensors and throttle and even less bikes with them.

 

[AHicks]

Exactly same feeling from my side - I could care less about your interest only in "non-propitiatory" motors and other stuff. I responded here only because you shitted the pretty descent bike in your first comment here for no reason at all - all the complains you listed there is only yours and most people don't care they can't tweak the engine firmware - they just want a thing which works and Prodigy is doing great for the price. Don't worry - nobody taking away your Bafang stuff, but lots of people want different things from bikes (including me), so remember this when considering your point of view as one and only.

Why should I buy a crappy motor without a torque sensor only because it offers throttle I don't need? If it was there, I am fine, if it is not - I am fine either. There are very few descent motors with torque sensors and throttle and even less bikes with them.

Plenty of room here for those that have different wants and tastes. I don't fault you for your decision. I don't try to counter opinions/decisions different from my own with complete BS or opinions (blather) with absolutely nothing to back them.

Bottom line, while I don't care about the call you made, I'd like people who don't know anything about that motor and others like it, to have a caution raised, a reason to do some due diligence. From there, with their call made while informed, I'm good. In my mind, I've helped avoid the scenario where one finds out his bike MUST go to the shop the hard way.

If you don't like that, too bad....

 

[ava1ar]

If you don't like that, too bad....

I see and share your frustration - this happens literally everywhere: cars, computers, phones, bikes, home appliances, etc and it is extremely difficult to resist - you can, but this is very time consuming process. I am doing this already with my computers and phones (buying only specific models which can be upgraded and can run 3rd-party custom firmware and software). I have no time nor energy to do same with bikes, so I am using well-known and reliable, but very proprietory Bosch motors.

 

[AHicks]

I see and share your frustration - this happens literally everywhere: cars, computers, phones, bikes, home appliances, etc and it is extremely difficult to resist - you can, but this is very time consuming process. I am doing this already with my computers and phones (buying only specific models which can be upgraded and can run 3rd-party custom firmware and software). I have no time nor energy to do same with bikes, so I am using well-known and reliable, but very proprietory Bosch motors.

Enjoy your bike - as frequently as you can! -Al