A highly assisted model ?

[McCorby]

But what about the speed ? For example, if I want a slow cadence (like 40 rpm), a low gear for ease of pedaling but a "quite high speed" ?

Nope, it doesn’t work that way. Get something with a throttle and/or with a cheap cadence based hub motor that you can ghost pedal.……..

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Nope, it doesn’t work that way. Get something with a throttle and/or with a cheap cadence based hub motor that you can ghost pedal.……..

Agree, those would probably be the OP's best bets in the US. But the OP lives in the EU, and none of that's legally available there.

The OP's planning some week-long ebike rentals for testing purposes. A more realistic sense of the trade-offs involved will follow.

 

[McCorby]

Agree, those would probably be the OP's best bets in the US. But the OP lives in the EU, and none of that's legally available there.

The OP's planning some week-long ebike rentals for testing purposes. A more realistic sense of the trade-offs involved will follow.

You can’t get a cheap cadence based hub drive that can be ghost pedaled in Europe?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I didn't try this one. I reached top speed fairly quickly, but mostly with harder gears.

Yes, pretty fast in 4-5-6-7 gears for example. But most of my rides were at about 22kph. It was too exhausting to go faster.

I'm surprised to hear that. I had demo rides on several Specialized "full power" e-bikes (Vado, Tero, Tero X: the least expensive versions) and was getting at 25 km/h easily on each of them. I do not think Como (even with the weakest motor on version 3.0) is too weak. I say it because I rode e-bikes with exactly the Como 3.0 motor and never missed the motor power.

It's not so much about the speed, but about the effort applied, which seems to me to be too much.
Could a de-restricter device do something about that ?

Yes it could. That would certainly invalidate your warranty (which is not the smartest decision).

I'm lacking training.
And health, and good legs.

OK. I'm 63, 100 kg, three medical conditions (of which leg atherosclerosis is the principal one), yet I ride my e-bikes a lot. I started riding my e-bikes at pretty high assistance; within several months I could make my first Metric Century (100 km). In 2023, I made 11000 km on e-bikes! (My legs cannot be improved but I trained them for endurance).

I think you have a point : the bikes seemed heavy and even with powerful motors, I've feeled their weights (in my body, my arms,

Available lightweight e-bikes (such as Como SL) are underpowered and have small batteries. "Full power" e-bikes have the excess power to overcome the e-bike weight.

In the pressure put on before the helper activates [it only lasts a few milliseconds, but that's enough])...

I think you were starting from the dead stop in the wrong gear

I think I prefer constant effort than constant speed by the way. The seller has a Como SL, not a Vado, but they seem about the same.

Como is absolutely not Vado. Two different e-bike types (a city e-bike vs a commuter e-bike).
Besides: Do not try a Como SL. Too heavy as for a "lightweight" e-bike, underpowered motor, small battery. Go for the regular Como (full power).

 

[Palmthree]

Nope, it doesn’t work that way. Get something with a throttle and/or with a cheap cadence based hub motor that you can ghost pedal.……..

In Europe, e-bicycles have no throttle (or if they have, they must be registered and insured).

The OP's planning some week-long ebike rentals for testing purposes. A more realistic sense of the trade-offs involved will follow.

I will get a Giant to start with. There's not much choice, but it should be 50nm with a belt.

You can’t get a cheap cadence based hub drive that can be ghost pedaled in Europe?

I honestly don't know but I've tested several bikes and never felt I was being carried. I always felt like I was trying too hard, and the salespeople assured me that was the point.

I'm surprised to hear that.

I think the motor are quite the same between the models.

Yes it could. That would certainly invalidate your warranty (which is not the smartest decision)

OK. I'm 63, 100 kg, three medical conditions (of which leg atherosclerosis is the principal one), yet I ride my e-bikes a lot. I started riding my e-bikes at pretty high assistance; within several months I could make my first Metric Century (100 km). In 2023, I made 11000 km on e-bikes! (My legs cannot be improved but I trained them for endurance).

It's very inspiring.

Available lightweight e-bikes (such as Como SL) are underpowered and have small batteries. "Full power" e-bikes have the excess power to overcome the e-bike weight.

But what are "full power e-bikes" exactly ?

Como is absolutely not Vado. Two different e-bike types (a city e-bike vs a commuter e-bike).

The seller told me they were pretty much identical, except that the Vado can do a bit more off-roading.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

But what are "full power e-bikes" exactly ?

The "full power" e-bike is the heavy one, with the peak motor power from 430 W (leg power amplification 2.8x) to 565 W (leg power amplification 4.1x). Of course all EU motors are 250 W nominal (the continuous motor power). Specialized Como, Vado, Tero, Tero X, Levo, Kenevo are all full power e-bikes. All Giant e-bikes I know of are "full power".

There is a new class of e-bikes known as "super lightweight". Specialized e-bikes of this type are marked by SL. The "super lightweight" motors of different makes (used by different manufacturers) are 240-320 W peak power and the batteries are intentionally small, such as 250-320 Wh depending on the brand. Super lightweight e-bikes are not for everyone, as these require a solid pedalling to perform. By the way, Specialized Como SL is about the heaviest Specialized SL e-bike.

The seller told me they were pretty much identical, except that the Vado can do a bit more off-roading.

Not at all! Como is a classical city e-bike. It is a "comfort" e-bike, easy to get on and off, with a very relaxed riding position. Vado has a quite sporty character, as the main purpose here is the commute. The riding position on Vado is "moderate", that is, you need to lean forward quite a bit. For instance, Como is equipped with a very wide saddle while Vado has the sporty, a way narrower one. Yes, Vado is more appropriate to do some easy forest rides than the Como is but it still doesn't not eliminate the Como from some recreational use.

I think the motor are quite the same between the models.

The 2.0E, 2.0, and 2.2 motors are shared between the models. Even the weakest 2.0E motor is pretty strong, and I demo rode an e-bike equipped with such a motor. I have never missed the power but I admit I tested the e-bike on the flats.

I will get a Giant to start with. There's not much choice, but it should be 50nm with a belt.

What model?

 

[Palmthree]

What model?

A Dailytour 2 or Liv equivalent, subject to availability.

Not at all! Como is a classical city e-bike. It is a "comfort" e-bike, easy to get on and off, with a very relaxed riding position. Vado has a quite sporty character, as the main purpose here is the commute. The riding position on Vado is "moderate", that is, you need to lean forward quite a bit. For instance, Como is equipped with a very wide saddle while Vado has the sporty, a way narrower one. Yes, Vado is more appropriate to do some easy forest rides than the Como is but it still doesn't not eliminate the Como from some recreational use.

I did notice some differences in position between the bikes I tested. I was quite upright on the Como, which I liked, it was very comfortable (but I don't know what it's worth on long trips). I had more difficulty when I was very lean (on a Kalkhoff one if I remember correctly).

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

But what are "full power e-bikes" exactly ?

In the Specialized lineup, the ones without the "SL" designation — i.e., most of them.

You just now mentioned riding position. Pay special attention to this in your testing, as you're likely to want to ride more than you think.

The neck, low back, hands, and wrists tend to be the trouble areas on longer rides. If a bike doesn't come in a comfortable position, does it have the necessary adjustments? A good dealer will help you with this.

 

[Palmthree]

I feel better in an upright position with my arms very slightly bent and not too high ; I don't bend my neck, which is also fragile.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I was quite upright on the Como, which I liked, it was very comfortable (but I don't know what it's worth on long trips)

If you do not ride more than 40 km, Como will be fabulous for you. On a longer ride... not really. The upright position puts the larger part of your body weight on the rear. Ride long and you'd discover the pain in the backside becomes unbearable despite the very wide saddle. Chafing of groins and the inner part of thighs comes next.

I ride longer distances. While I was gaining experience, I did everything to make my ride position upright on my e-bikes. Later, I understood how wrong I had been! With my Vado as an example: I later did everything to lean more on the handlebars, and changed the saddle to a narrow and firm one. That allowed spreading my body weight between my arms, legs, and butt to a great relief of the latter.

A city e-bike such as Como is intended for relatively short rides as the distances in the cities are actually not that big. So you can pedal easily and enjoy the life

 

[Palmthree]

Hi,
I rented a Giant Dailytour (50Nm, belt-driven, 7 speeds) for two (rainy) days. The bike costs 3300€. Today, i'm going to ride 20 km with a less expensive bike : (A Riverside 520E, only 999€).

About the Dailytour : the posture was comfortable and it held up well (I was a bit scared at first as I don't have a helmet yet), even very well. I didn't feel the bumps, sidewalks or holes in the road much, and it also rode well on dirt roads. But from an "assistance" point of view, I was very tired, I felt like I was constantly having to "push the bike" (I was obviously in the highest assistance mode). I think I'm going about it the wrong way and maybe I'm trying to go too fast.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A Riverside 520E, only 999€

Do not expect a lot. 42 Nm on a truly 250 W hub-drive motor would be defeated by any steeper hill. Besides, Decathlon is not in love with their e-bikes: this model this year, another model the other year. Decathlon is not a bicycle company, so they do not care what happens to your e-bike past the warranty term.

I rented a Giant Dailytour (50Nm, belt-driven, 7 speeds) for two (rainy) days.

But from an "assistance" point of view, I was very tired, I felt like I was constantly having to "push the bike" (I was obviously in the highest assistance mode).

Do not expect you would be "ridden" by the e-bike. You need to pedal. The 50 Nm motor is good for people with a bit of fitness. And the belt drive is not the most efficient drivetrain. You also might wonder what is the reason for the price difference of different quality e-bikes:

• Battery size
• Motor power
• Equipment.

I think I'm going about it the wrong way and maybe I'm trying to go too fast.

The closer you are to 25 km/h the harder it is to pedal an EU e-bike. Past 25 km/h, you are on your own. Try to do a ride at 20-21 km/h and don't overuse the assistance: riding will become a pleasure! I think you will get some sort of fitness after several hundred kilometres.

Have you tried any significant climb yet? (Max assistance, low gear).

 

[Palmthree]

Do not expect a lot

I don't but the rent is only 10€. xD

Do not expect you would be "ridden" by the e-bike. You need to pedal.

Have you tried any significant climb yet? (Max assistance, low gear).

I want to pedal, but not as hard. I have the impression that without the electric assistance, I would have lost a few kmh (10 maybe with a lighter bike?), but that's all. With the low gears, I wasn't going fast, and from medium gears onwards, I was sweating and quickly tired. I did a big hill (about 1 km at 8-11%, on asphalt) and was going about 6-7 kmh.

The 50 Nm motor is good for people with a bit of fitness.

Does this mean that with a 70 Nm motor, I'd feel less pressure on flat and steep roads? I thought it didn't affect speed, only the ability to handle hills/weights?

Try to do a ride at 20-21 km/h and don't overuse the assistance: riding will become a pleasure! I think you will get some sort of fitness after several hundred kilometres.

To be honest, it was a pleasure, but a tiring one ! ^^

 

[Palmthree]

The second bike I rode was a Riverside 520E ; actually, it was not so bad and very responsive. I found it shook a little more and I was less comfortable but it was okay. The bike seemed pretty light without assistance (compared to the Giant) but I have to add some accessories. I also found the transmission correct and the braking (on dry roads) quite controllable. The same hill was doable but I was pretty slow, even in the fastest mode.

 

[Chargeride]

My knees are twinging again, just those side ligamets to the knee cap, nothing bad, just enough to remind me when walking.
Im trying to workout if I should gear up or down.

Im learning so much about torque sensing midrives, firstly, I can only get assist to 7mph in bottom gear I presume Im exceeding pedal speed, can it be increased?
Thats one advantage of the bbshd, you can smash the throttle for extra speed to clear an obstacle on a steep climb.

Strangely enough, it is legal in the UK to have a throttle that merely works during pedalling so you can insta to full power

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Does this mean that with a 70 Nm motor, I'd feel less pressure on flat and steep roads? I thought it didn't affect speed, only the ability to handle hills/weights?

A stronger motor allows you to easily ride closer to 25 km/h, and hills start feeling a way flatter

Having said the above... You already know my legs are bad but I have developed a kind of fitness (related to pedalling). I had a 34 km ride in Irish hills this July, riding a pretty unknown brand (Thompson) e-bike but equipped with a 50 Nm Bosch E-Bike motor. To my surprise, I had no issues climbing even a 10% long hill there despite the relatively low motor power!

My average speed was 19.5 km/h, which I perceive as pretty good!

The second bike I rode was a Riverside 520E ; actually, it was not so bad and very responsive.

While I am sure you could slowly negotiate a hill, bear in mind the low power hub-drive motors are poor climbers, and it is also possible to 'melt' (overheat) the motor on prolonged climbs at the full assistance (which does not happen to mid-drive motors). I'm negative to Decathlon e-bikes as you cannot expect the brand would stand by the product for a term longer than the warranty. Giant is a bicycle manufacturer and you can count they would support the model for several years more.