A different kind of intermittent power issue

theNJR

theNJR

New Member
My original Cross Current purchased in 2017 is having an issue. My past two rides, the power assist has cut off mid ride. Here are some details:

Ride 1: Power assist cut off around 20 miles into my ride. I turned off the bike, turned it back on and it rode another 5 miles before it cuts off again. I repeated the procedure and only got .5 -1 miles before having to cycle again for the next 10 miles.

Ride 2: After the above, I unplugged all cables, checked for any issues with them, cleaned them with air, and did a complete cleaning of the bike. I went for a test ride and after 13 miles it cut off again. I reset the bike, got less than half a mile, cycled again and made it the remaining 3 miles home.

Obviously this is strange since I get some distance before the problem happens, and cycling it brings power back for a varying amount of distance. While I can't fully conclude this yet, it also seems like riding in 3 or Sport makes the power shut off sooner. Again, that's more of a hunch but it seems like that was the behavior I was seeing.

This is a fairly difficult issue to trouble shoot since it requires at least an hour of riding for the power loss to occur. I’ve emailed support and they are being their usual slow selves (my newer Juiced has been in the midst of support hell with them since 1/20, and I should be finally getting it back next week).

Any thoughts?
 
It looks like you have a step-thru frame with a 10.4ah battery. I have an original Cross Current with the same size battery. Mine is upgraded with the 20A CCS controller. There’s no way I can go 20-30 miles on 3/S mode with that battery installed. I’d be lucky to get 15 miles with a fully charged battery on the higher assist levels. Since the problem occurs later in the ride are you sure it isn’t just a depleted battery?
 
Dunbar said:
It looks like you have a step-thru frame with a 10.4ah battery. I have an original Cross Current with the same size battery. Mine is upgraded with the 20A CCS controller. There’s no way I can go 20-30 miles on 3/S mode with that battery installed. I’d be lucky to get 15 miles with a fully charged battery on the higher assist levels. Since the problem occurs later in the ride are you sure it isn’t just a depleted battery?
Click to expand...

Sorry if that was unclear. I generally ride at 1-2 with moments of 3. I get a consistent 40 miles on this bike. Both the cases above were on a route I’ve done hundreds of times. The hunch about 3/s was from cycling through speeds after the reset.

There was plenty of battery left in both cases.
 
So how can you so sure it’s not an issue with the battery depletion over time? Do you have an estimate of approximately how many times the battery has been charged to 100%? I have the same size battery and rarely charge it over 80%. There’s no way I could get 40 miles even on the eco setting with a fully charged battery. My daily ride is done @ 80% charge and riding on eco/1 and I struggle to get more than 15 miles before I start to bump into the low voltage cutoff.
 
The first thing that went through my mind: overheating. Which could be due, not to ambient temperature or how hard you're driving the system, but to some component that has become defective and is creating more resistance. But I dunno; plenty of reasons to think this is wrong, I'm just putting it out there.
 
Dunbar said:
So how can you so sure it’s not an issue with the battery depletion over time? Do you have an estimate of approximately how many times the battery has been charged to 100%? I have the same size battery and rarely charge it over 80%. There’s no way I could get 40 miles even on the eco setting with a fully charged battery. My daily ride is done @ 80% charge and riding on eco/1 and I struggle to get more than 15 miles before I start to bump into the low voltage cutoff.
Click to expand...

I’m not in front of it at the moment but I think the battery is the 17 not 10.

When it cut out at 13 miles I still had 3 bars of battery left. The other time I had 2. A week earlier I did 28 miles without issue., so this is a drastic and sudden change in behavior.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the battery was losing some of its longevity since I’ve done a lot of rides. Wouldn’t it be a gradual decline though?
 
theNJR said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if the battery was losing some of its longevity since I’ve done a lot of rides. Wouldn’t it be a gradual decline though?
Click to expand...
No, that's not how lithium ion batteries age. Some initial drop-off, a long more-or-less level plateau, and then a sudden decline.

LiIon aging.png
 
If you have the step-thru frame it won’t fit the 17.4ah battery. If that is the battery in your profile picture that looks exactly like my 10.4ah battery. I also own a 17.4ah battery and it’s quite a bit bulkier and requires an XLR cable to charge. The bars on the display are pretty inaccurate. If you watch the display while you’re riding the bars will drop even lower due to the voltage sagging as you load down the battery. Next time it happens turn the assist level up to S and ride the bike hard. If the battery level is low you’ll start to feel it “chugging” as you hit the low voltage cutoff. I have a throttle on my bike and I can feel the chugging when throttling away from a stop as the battery level gets low.
 
Dunbar said:
If you have the step-thru frame it won’t fit the 17.4ah battery. If that is the battery in your profile picture that looks exactly like my 10.4ah battery. I also own a 17.4ah battery and it’s quite a bit bulkier and requires an XLR cable to charge. The bars on the display are pretty inaccurate. If you watch the display while you’re riding the bars will drop even lower due to the voltage sagging as you load down the battery. Next time it happens turn the assist level up to S and ride the bike hard. If the battery level is low you’ll start to feel it “chugging” as you hit the low voltage cutoff. I have a throttle on my bike and I can feel the chugging when throttling away from a stop as the battery level gets low.
Click to expand...

Indeed you are right, it's the 10.4.

Is there any way to test the battery? If I now live in a world of 13 mile range, it would be good to know and stop troubleshooting in vain.
 
I’m not aware of any formal test you can do. The only way to recalibrate your range expectations is to fully charge the battery and ride it until you start to feel the low voltage cutoff. If you charge your battery to 100% you only get about 400-500 cycles before you’ve lost 50% of the battery capacity. If you search some people have found inexpensive Reention compatible batteries off Alibaba. Just be aware that they make them in different lengths so you need to be sure to buy the correct one. Juiced Bikes sold @youth a replacement 12.8ah battery at a discount when he depleted his 10.4 so you could always try contacting them directly.

https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/diy-52v-battery-pack.25588/
 
Last edited:
Bruce Arnold said:
No, that's not how lithium ion batteries age. Some initial drop-off, a long more-or-less level plateau, and then a sudden decline.

View attachment 31924
Click to expand...
That is a discouraging graph!

While I have you guys here, what device are you using to limit the charge to 80%? I have that big 52v battery on my CCS and don't want this happening again!
 
theNJR said:
That is a discouraging graph!

While I have you guys here, what device are you using to limit the charge to 80%? I have that big 52v battery on my CCS and don't want this happening again!
Click to expand...
You can use the Satiator, or you can use a cheap timer. A little experimenting may be in order, but you can set the timer to shut the charger off at around 80%.
 
There are a couple of threads explaining how. Basically use voltage to calculate %, convert to Ah, subtract this from the 80% Ah, divide by 2 = number of hours.

If 48.7V = 20% = 4.08AH and 56.3V = 80% = 16.35AH, then for 12 Ah, it'll take 6 hours to charge to 80%. This is an example with a new 52v battery.
 
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