745Whr replacement batteries + 7A charger from E-bike Vision

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

That is some serious riding! I ride Eco on a Haibike 10.0 Yamaha most of the time with plenty of spare battery power after a 30 mile ride. Riding in high power on a FatSix must change the whole riding experience entirely. Nice setup dude!

Hi Bob,
Thanks much! What model Haibike are you riding in that 10.0 spec?

Before the summer of 2019, I was getting around on my original 400wh battery with the Full F-Six, including a near 100 mile run on the local canal towpaths here in NJ and PA. To squeeze that kind of mileage out of one 400wh battery, I did a combo of No-Power (ugh), Eco+, Eco, Standard and maybe a few feet in High power (LOL). Lotsa local riding and what not on High power, which is where I prefer to pedal the bike, simply cause it's too much fun.

I think with an eye towards light pedal pressure (fooling the torque sensor in not delivering 4 or more bars on the power meter) and an eye to upshifting and down, you can leave the world of Eco for the more fun power alleys Standard and High! For example, I have a local run I do out of the driveway that is 20 miles in total, including several climbs out of a few creek sheds that empty into the Delaware River elsewhere on their way to the river. Running in High power, I have always consistently averaged about 50% power remaining, give or take 5-10 if there is a strong westwind in my face.....or severe winter cold, which will take the battery output down. I think you might be able to do the same on your Yamaha drive Haibike.


Back to this E-Bike Vision Battery. Using that amazon link provided, it just took me to Amazon UK and a plain old 500wh Yamaha battery for sale. With plenty of them available on Ebay or US dealers, there is absolutely no need to go overseas for what we can purchase here.

But I thought, how about Ebay-UK? And there it was, the 745wh battery by E-Bike Vision, for sale by RideWill.It. I then went to the RideWill site and it is available there as well, with a clearer detailed explanation of the battery. And yes, it fits the PW as well as the PW-X motor drives. The best thing, they ship worldwide. 810.66 Euros converted to dollars is 902 US dollars. Not bad! I think I just might have to look into one of these come spring, 2020! Link to RideWill and battery: https://www.ridewill.it/p/en/e-bike...-x-compatible-powerpack-battery-745wh/907533/

Last spring, off of US Ebay, I ordered two sets of Haibike S-Duro Battery decals that matched my OEM battery decal; this in anticipation of getting those extra 500wh batteries. They arrived from Italy in perfect condition and the arrival waiting time was about a little over a week. Top notch service, in my personal experience.....

Hope this is all of help. Would be great to see one of our major US ebike supply dealers begin to carry this battery. Who knows, maybe Yamaha ebikes here in country are putting a stranglehold on that not happening??

 

[bob armani]

Hi Bob,
Thanks much! What model Haibike are you riding in that 10.0 spec?

Before the summer of 2019, I was getting around on my original 400wh battery with the Full F-Six, including a near 100 mile run on the local canal towpaths here in NJ and PA. To squeeze that kind of mileage out of one 400wh battery, I did a combo of No-Power (ugh), Eco+, Eco, Standard and maybe a few feet in High power (LOL). Lotsa local riding and what not on High power, which is where I prefer to pedal the bike, simply cause it's too much fun.

I think with an eye towards light pedal pressure (fooling the torque sensor in not delivering 4 or more bars on the power meter) and an eye to upshifting and down, you can leave the world of Eco for the more fun power alleys Standard and High! For example, I have a local run I do out of the driveway that is 20 miles in total, including several climbs out of a few creek sheds that empty into the Delaware River elsewhere on their way to the river. Running in High power, I have always consistently averaged about 50% power remaining, give or take 5-10 if there is a strong westwind in my face.....or severe winter cold, which will take the battery output down. I think you might be able to do the same on your Yamaha drive Haibike.


Back to this E-Bike Vision Battery. Using that amazon link provided, it just took me to Amazon UK and a plain old 500wh Yamaha battery for sale. With plenty of them available on Ebay or US dealers, there is absolutely no need to go overseas for what we can purchase here.

But I thought, how about Ebay-UK? And there it was, the 745wh battery by E-Bike Vision, for sale by RideWill.It. I then went to the RideWill site and it is available there as well, with a clearer detailed explanation of the battery. And yes, it fits the PW as well as the PW-X motor drives. The best thing, they ship worldwide. 810.66 Euros converted to dollars is 902 US dollars. Not bad! I think I just might have to look into one of these come spring, 2020! Link to RideWill and battery: https://www.ridewill.it/p/en/e-bike...-x-compatible-powerpack-battery-745wh/907533/

Last spring, off of US Ebay, I ordered two sets of Haibike S-Duro Battery decals that matched my OEM battery decal; this in anticipation of getting those extra 500wh batteries. They arrived from Italy in perfect condition and the arrival waiting time was about a little over a week. Top notch service, in my personal experience.....

Hope this is all of help. Would be great to see one of our major US ebike supply dealers begin to carry this battery. Who knows, maybe Yamaha ebikes here in country are putting a stranglehold on that not happening??

Hey Mike- Awesome post on your personal experience. I know, Amazon UK is easy to order stuff not available from the US side which all carries the same Amazon guarantees etc. This is my Haibike here with minimal add-on modes done by me; seat, lights, adjustable stem, rear saddle, etc. The top end components that came stock (ie: Rock Shox Lyrik, DT Swiss wheels, MT5 brakes, etc) perform really well. I just did another ride due to great weather here this year in the Midwest, and I was a very happy camper riding 1 day after Xmas. What a treat!
My typical commute is mostly rails to trails and some off road along abandon railways along Chicago northwest lagoons. Your trek sounds a lot more exciting and challenging than mine. I like the sound of it and your strategy you are using with switching out modes. Kudos!

Never gave consideration to Ebay UK!?! Does that require different login credentials as the US side? Great idea to check other bike related accessories there also. Thanks for the tip! BTW- I see they have discounted the Yamaha 745wh battery by 9.0% now. Perhaps you may want to grab it at the discount?!!

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Hey Mike- Awesome post on your personal experience. I know, Amazon UK is easy to order stuff not available from the US side which all carries the same Amazon guarantees etc. This is my Haibike here with minimal add-on modes done by me; seat, lights, adjustable stem, rear saddle, etc. The top end components that came stock (ie: Rock Shox Lyrik, DT Swiss wheels, MT5 brakes, etc) perform really well. I just did another ride due to great weather here this year in the Midwest, and I was a very happy camper riding 1 day after Xmas. What a treat!
My typical commute is mostly rails to trails and some off road along abandon railways along Chicago northwest lagoons. Your trek sounds a lot more exciting and challenging than mine. I like the sound of it and your strategy you are using with switching out modes. Kudos!

Never gave consideration to Ebay UK!?! Does that require different login credentials as the US side? Great idea to check other bike related accessories there also. Thanks for the tip! BTW- I see they have discounted the Yamaha 745wh battery by 9.0% now. Perhaps you may want to grab it at the discount?!!

Super nice H-Bike you've got there, Bob. Especially powerful with that PW-X drive that take things a notch higher then what I have with the added bonus of not dropping off after 90 rpm is reached.

Like your area, here back east in NJ, we have experienced above normal temps for this time of the year. Past 2 days I rode my 22 mile run along the towpath and trails that I have close by home. Yesterday's run I made it a point to do the second half of my run in the dark, taking advantage of the dyno hub lighting system.

I'll look into the latter part of 2020 to consider another battery purchase; especially after spending a kings ransom for the 2 500wh batteries I purchased last summer.

In the meanthime, I hope this thread catches the attention of somebody who winds up getting that 745wh battery as I am really curious how it works out in real life.

All the best and Happy New Year to ya!

 

[bob armani]

Super nice H-Bike you've got there, Bob. Especially powerful with that PW-X drive that take things a notch higher then what I have with the added bonus of not dropping off after 90 rpm is reached.

Like your area, here back east in NJ, we have experienced above normal temps for this time of the year. Past 2 days I rode my 22 mile run along the towpath and trails that I have close by home. Yesterday's run I made it a point to do the second half of my run in the dark, taking advantage of the dyno hub lighting system.

I'll look into the latter part of 2020 to consider another battery purchase; especially after spending a kings ransom for the 2 500wh batteries I purchased last summer.

In the meanthime, I hope this thread catches the attention of somebody who winds up getting that 745wh battery as I am really curious how it works out in real life.

All the best and Happy New Year to ya!

Thanks Mike! C-Lenny's comes through again with an amazing EOY deal last year. Difficult to stay indoors when great temps arrive like that at this time. My curiosity with these 745wh batteries has also sparked my attention. We shall see (hopefully). May the power be with you!!
HNY to you and yours as well.

 

[FlatSix911]

... Back to this E-Bike Vision Battery. Using that amazon link provided, it just took me to Amazon UK and a plain old 500wh Yamaha battery for sale. With plenty of them available on Ebay or US dealers, there is absolutely no need to go overseas for what we can purchase here.

But I thought, how about Ebay-UK? And there it was, the 745wh battery by E-Bike Vision, for sale by RideWill.It. I then went to the RideWill site and it is available there as well, with a clearer detailed explanation of the battery. And yes, it fits the PW as well as the PW-X motor drives. The best thing, they ship worldwide. 810.66 Euros converted to dollars is 902 US dollars. Not bad! I think I just might have to look into one of these come spring, 2020! Link to RideWill and battery: https://www.ridewill.it/p/en/e-bike...-x-compatible-powerpack-battery-745wh/907533/

Last spring, off of US Ebay, I ordered two sets of Haibike S-Duro Battery decals that matched my OEM battery decal; this in anticipation of getting those extra 500wh batteries. They arrived from Italy in perfect condition and the arrival waiting time was about a little over a week. Top notch service, in my personal experience..... Hope this is all of help. Would be great to see one of our major US ebike supply dealers begin to carry this battery. Who knows, maybe Yamaha ebikes here in country are putting a stranglehold on that not happening??

Great to see a large 745wh aftermarket battery available for Yamaha motors... thanks for sharing. Has anyone here on EBR purchased one yet?

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Great to see a large 745wh aftermarket battery available for Yamaha motors... thanks for sharing. Has anyone here on EBR purchased one yet?
View attachment 43904View attachment 43903

I don't believe so, but I hold out hope someone will. Myself, I'm tapped out for a while, having bought 2 500wh batteries over the summer.

It'd be super nice to see one of our major US vendors start carrying these batteries instead of individual buyers trying to get these things from overseas dealers. Better yet, it'd be super nice if Yamaha itself or some other vendor, build, sell and market these higher wh batteries for the US and North American market!

 

[haibikekeeper]

Great idea these batteries, would love to try one. I wonder how it would really relate to a genuine Yamaha 500Wh in extra range and in terms of longevity and quality. And for an aftermarket battery they are not exactly cheap.

Would like to see the two units side by side as well. I actually think the design they have done here looks great, kind of along the stealth fighter lines.

I'm really looking for an alternative to the Yamaha battery and this would be the way to go with this size range.

What really surprises me is why hasn't anyone made a small lightweight unit for the Yamaha that could buy you a few extra Wh, say in the 200-300 range just as a small add on like some makers do.

 

[FlatSix911]

Great idea these batteries, would love to try one. I wonder how it would really relate to a genuine Yamaha 500Wh in extra range and in terms of longevity and quality. And for an aftermarket battery they are not exactly cheap. Would like to see the two units side by side as well. I actually think the design they have done here looks great, kind of along the stealth fighter lines.

I'm really looking for an alternative to the Yamaha battery and this would be the way to go with this size range. What really surprises me is why hasn't anyone made a small lightweight unit for the Yamaha that could buy you a few extra Wh, say in the 200-300 range just as a small add on like some makers do.

I also like the idea of a small lightweight battery for short trips and low assist levels.

 

[e-boy]

Great idea these batteries, would love to try one. I wonder how it would really relate to a genuine Yamaha 500Wh in extra range and in terms of longevity and quality. And for an aftermarket battery they are not exactly cheap.

Would like to see the two units side by side as well. I actually think the design they have done here looks great, kind of along the stealth fighter lines.

I'm really looking for an alternative to the Yamaha battery and this would be the way to go with this size range.

What really surprises me is why hasn't anyone made a small lightweight unit for the Yamaha that could buy you a few extra Wh, say in the 200-300 range just as a small add on like some makers do.

I think this is coming from Yamaha themselves for MY 2021 .

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I think this is coming from Yamaha themselves for MY 2021 .

If true, my hope is that they remember the external battery-only owners with a 745wh external battery that is backwards compatible all the way back to the PW motor.

If so, I'll be in line for one!


On another front, it would be great for Yamaha, as well as Bosch, to offer a battery rebuild service or some kind of core exchange with a built-in savings to the owner who wants a fresh battery, but wants to go the route of rebuilding their own to reap the cost savings over buying brand new...at full price.

 

[FlatSix911]

If true, my hope is that they remember the external battery-only owners with a 745wh external battery that is backwards compatible all the way back to the PW motor.

If so, I'll be in line for one!

On another front, it would be great for Yamaha, as well as Bosch, to offer a battery rebuild service or some kind of core exchange with a built-in savings to the owner who wants a fresh battery, but wants to go the route of rebuilding their own to reap the cost savings over buying brand new...at full price.

I would like to see the aftermarket step in to fill the current void on battery refurbishment.

The OEMs don't really have much incentive as long as they can sell you a brand new battery.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I would like to see the aftermarket step in to fill the current void on battery refurbishment.

The OEMs don't really have much incentive as long as they can sell you a brand new battery.

So would I, but looking at the E-Bike Vision site, they only sell to distributors. And those distributors listed were Germany based. Ignoring the North American market was silly on their part.

There is a market for rebuilt/recored batteries. And it's based on every single ebike sold in the USA, that one day will need an upgraded battery. If given the choice of rebuilding their existing battery at half the price of a brand new one; giving that rebuilt a decent warranty in the process, I believe most would go for a rebuilt.

This is a story to be continued cause all of our batteries are degrading so many percentage points after each year of use.

 

[FlatSix911]

Agreed, and let's hope new battery technology with higher energy density is available in a few years.

 

[Ebiker01]

I would like to see the aftermarket step in to fill the current void on battery refurbishment.

The OEMs don't really have much incentive as long as they can sell you a brand new battery.

Bosch will never allow it. And probably other manufacturers are following them or already doing it.
This battery rebuild company-FTH Power they stopped doing any battery rebuilds b/c of many issues with this custom batteries.
I've sent my BH battery (made by Td tech) to them and they refused. But other said yes, although due to shipping costs i didn't tried again.

Also for Stromers, i've read that about a company that was doing battery rebuilds.

Is too bad this greed... That means that even when the cells with a better chemistry come out , it would be maybe impossible to rebuild an old one. They put many obstacles.
In their view , we should recycle an used one and buy a new one.

 

[Saru9999]

Found it online including dimensions. https://www.ks-bikes.de/E-Bike_Visi..._SE,_TE_Rahmen_Sduro_Akku_E-Bike_Pedelec.html

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Found it online including dimensions. https://www.ks-bikes.de/E-Bike_Vision_für_Yamaha_36V_20,7Ah_745Wh_PW-X_,PW,_SE,_TE_Rahmen_Sduro_Akku_E-Bike_Pedelec.html

If you end up purchasing it, let us know how it works out.

 

[bombadero]

My Bosches are nearing end-of-life and I think I'm going to get the 745 Wh battery they now make as Powerpack replacements.

 

[bombadero]

...or not. Where can you buy these? They seem to only be available in the EU, with no shipping options to the US.

 

[bombadero]

So I found a European vendor willing to ship to the US that had a battery in stock. I'm currently in negotiations with them about the shipping price for hazardous materials, they quoted me 53 euros, which seems quite reasonable, but they also referred to my location as the 'Sunshine State', which is Florida, but I reside in California, so we'll see. It appears to be a bike shop near Frankfurt, and for some reason they don't just calculate the shipping on their site when you place the order, and there's quite a time delay so we will see what happens and I'll let people know if and when it arrives. I ordered the 745 Wh version.

I had a number of concerns about this battery voiced by others but ultimately pulled the trigger after satisfying some of them by digging into the scant information online, and I figure I can be the trailblazer for others since no one else seems to be stepping up, buying the battery, putting it to heavy use and reviewing it. This isn't a dig at this forum, I'm referring to the Internet as a whole--there is very little real-world review information about E-bike Vision batteries in general, and none about this particular battery. That was one of my concerns. It was alleviated to some degree after I watched some Youtube videos by an older German gentleman using the E-bike Vision 612 Wh Bosch Classic replacement battery. It's not the same battery, but it is from the same company and on a similar Bosch system, so should be roughly indicative of what to expect. He was getting about 120 km with no cargo in dry conditions with relatively flat terrain, and about 60 km towing a trailer with maybe 60-80 lbs. of cargo. He had two rear panniers with a suitcase across them on the back of his bike, and in his bike trailer he had a Festool dust vacuum and what looked like the whole stack of Festool accessories (jealous), and some sawhorses. I thought that was a pretty good real-world test, especially since I haul a lot of stuff.

I also looked at reviews of the Yamaha replacement batteries, which are more recent and also come in at 745 Wh. These reviews were also in German and inconclusive, but it was used again in real world conditions on a 37 km mountain bike/DH/trail ride in somewhat damp/muddy conditions. I was a little concerned because I had read in another post either here or on Endless Sphere that the E-bike Vision batteries are 'crap' from a European poster, but it appears that is an outlier opinion based on the few Youtube reviews I could find. I went back and reviewed their product page, and they list the cells they use up front, which are Samsung INR18650-35E, which are definitely not 'crap' battery cells. They also state they are compatible with the stock chargers, and if I purchase the Cycle Satiator from Grin, which I am contemplating, with an adapter from Grin plus one from E-bike Vision, I should be able to charge it off of the Satiator as well. So the only area where quality could be in question is the BMS, but if they have successfully interfaced their BMS with the Bosch computer and charger, I have a hard time believing the BMS is low quality, especially after they filled it with high quality Samsung cells.

If it turns out the battery isn't up to snuff after all, at least I can salvage the very high quality/capacity Samsung 35E cells out of it to rebuild one of my proprietary batteries or construct my own battery for an upcoming dual motor build. I would still be out maybe $700 when subtracting the value of the cells, but I feel like that's worth it to conduct some research for both myself and others regarding aftermarket batteries, since it's still an open question as to quality of these batteries. However, I doubt it will come to that. All indications are that these are quality batteries.

Will keep you posted.

In the meantime, if anyone has the chops to help explain to me how to safely wire a benchtop power supply to a Bosch Powerpack BMS to prevent the suicide chip from bricking the battery while I repack it (and without frying myself or the BMS, i.e. how do I determine what power level to set the supply to), I would greatly appreciate it.

In the meantime, I'm brushing up on my electrical knowledge, but any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I've mostly run into the 'RTFM effect' while asking questions here and on other forums. I've been using the Internet since the 1980's (ok, back then it was technically Prodigy and BBSes) and to this day I'm confused about the surly attitude people sometimes have when you ask questions on technical topics. The whole point of networked computing was supposed to be so technical people could share knowledge, not guard it jealously like dragons hoarding treasure... anyway, rant concluded. Again, I'll post back with what I find.

Links (if you don't speak German, like me, turn on CC and set the CC settings to auto-translate to English):

High-quality replacement batteries from E-Bike Vision

Do you need a new bike battery? You can find your suitable replacement battery here in the overview.

www.e-bike-vision.de

 

[FlatSix911]

Will keep you posted.

In the meantime, if anyone has the chops to help explain to me how to safely wire a benchtop power supply to a Bosch Powerpack BMS to prevent the suicide chip from bricking the battery while you repack it (and without frying myself or the BMS, i.e. how do I determine what power level to set the supply to), I would greatly appreciate it.

In the meantime, I'm brushing up on my electrical knowledge, but any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I've mostly run into the 'RTFM effect' while asking questions here and on other forums. I've been using the Internet since the 1980's (ok, back then it was technically Prodigy and BBSes) and to this day I'm confused about the surly attitude people sometimes have when you ask questions on technical topics.

The whole point of networked computing was supposed to be so technical people could share knowledge, not guard it jealously like dragons hoarding treasure... anyway, rant concluded. Again, I'll post back with what I find.

Thank you for jumping in the pool and offering to share your experience with replacement batteries.

Glad to hear that you were an early adopter of internet sharing... I was also an early Prodigy member.