Turbo Creo 2 Comp E5 (aluminum) is out, is a Vado SL 2 next?

[Allan47.7339]

Specialized has posted the Turbo Creo 2 Comp E5 on the website. Now that the new Creo 2 aluminum frame version is out, it seems the Vado SL 2 should be somewhere on the way too? I think they will use the same frame and mix the forks sizes to get the Vado SL fit.
Edited: The new Creo 2 Comp E5 is showing a price same as the on sale Creo SL Comp E5 model.

Turbo Creo 2 Comp E5

Road or Gravel? 5 miles or 5 hours? Climb or Descend? Suffer or Smile? More power or less weight? Creo 2 isn’t about having to choose. It’s about having...

www.specialized.com

 

[Saratoga Dave]

Uh oh!

 

[mschwett]

33.3lb compared to 31.9lb for the comp and 28.5 for the s-works. interesting!

 

[gpburdell]

Emailed announcement says July 2024 availability in the US

 

[Douglas Ruby]

I have a Turbo Vado SL 5.0 EQ (the later SRAM version). The weight at 33+ lbs is around 2 lbs less than my Vado Sl with frame/fenders but otherwise similarly equipped. Interesting possibility.

 

[mfgrep]

Perhaps they will offer a flat bar alloy Creo option and eliminate the Vado SL They purposefully don't show the bars in that photo?

 

[gpburdell]

Perhaps they will offer a flat bar alloy Creo option and eliminate the Vado SL They purposefully don't show the bars in that photo?

Just how I had to screen capture the email to get the info. Here’s the upper part.

 

[mfgrep]

Just how I had to screen capture the email to get the info. Here’s the upper part.

View attachment 174261

Ha!!! Lol. My theory blown to bits.

 

[mschwett]

Ha!!! Lol. My theory blown to bits.

it’s also already on the website !

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So tempting... However, I cannot justify buying a third Specialized e-bike, having owned a Vado and a Vado SL...

Can anyone tell me whether the same frame is used for the drop-bar and the flat-bar version of the Skitch? (I cannot easily do it myself as Skitch web-page is geofenced to the U.S.) My question is important here.

If you compare a Specialized Diverge (drop bar) to a Specialized Diverge EVO (flat bar), you'll notice the geometry for both frames is completely different. You will notice the same for Marin Gestalt (drop-bar) and Marin DSX (flat-bar). It is a way more for a bicycle to belong to a category than just swapping the handlebars and drivetrain. I wonder if Santa Cruz took that into the consideration designing the Skitch?

There is not much demand for flat-bar gravel e-bikes (or bikes). Specialized is certainly not motivated to make one, as it already has the Vado SL. If the Vado SL 2 comes, I would be just happy with more bosses and standard equipment on that e-bike. If the rear wheel could be made 12x142 mm, the better!

Why should I need a flat-bar Creo 2? Vado SL was designed for flat handlebars!

 

[mschwett]

santa cruz seems to be going against the conventional wisdom here - the flat bar and drop bar skitch have the same frame. same geometry. they do skew the height recommendations a bit, since the hoods on the drop bar bikes are so much further forward than the grips on the flat bar bike :

this is probably extra important because the reach on these bikes seems VERY LONG. at 6’2, they recommend the XL for me, with 435 mm reach. my creo was 391, my aethos 402, my addict 384. 435 is nuts.

as far as i know, most other bikes which offer both bars have slightly different frames, like the diverge. maybe because the reach is so long, it works OK with the less extended flat bars, and they just side down for drop bar riders. that’s what the chart implies.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

santa cruz seems to be going against the conventional wisdom here - the flat bar and drop bar skitch have the same frame. same geometry. they do skew the height recommendations a bit, since the hoods on the drop bar bikes are so much further forward than the grips on the flat bar bike :

Thank you for your interesting explanation!

The whole "Reach" matter is somewhat unclear to me. I have relatively short legs but a long torso and arms. I feel comfortable on Specialized drop-bar bikes size 54 (I know as I tried both the sizes 52: I was absolutely squeezed in the cockpit; and 56: where my body was unnaturally stretched forward). However, for the flat-bar bikes, I am stuck a little bit. It has to be a "M" size frame for the stand-over height but the cockpit (read: Reach) is too short for me. I had to compensate my body build with very long stems on my both e-bikes to assume the proper riding position.

The simple Retül calculator on the Specialized website claims I should select the Creo 2 52 frame, and I know it is simply wrong for my body build. Surprisingly, the saddle height predicted is just a centimetre off (but that could be caused by my careless measurement of the shin lenght).

 

[gpburdell]

Thank you for your interesting explanation!

The whole "Reach" matter is somewhat unclear to me. I have relatively short legs but a long torso and arms. I feel comfortable on Specialized drop-bar bikes size 54 (I know as I tried both the sizes 52: I was absolutely squeezed in the cockpit; and 56: where my body was unnaturally stretched forward). However, for the flat-bar bikes, I am stuck a little bit. It has to be a "M" size frame for the stand-over height but the cockpit (read: Reach) is too short for me. I had to compensate my body build with very long stems on my both e-bikes to assume the proper riding position.

The simple Retül calculator on the Specialized website claims I should select the Creo 2 52 frame, and I know it is simply wrong for my body build. Surprisingly, the saddle height predicted is just a centimetre off (but that could be caused by my careless measurement of the shin lenght).

The challenge is that Reach is normally the horizontal distance from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the head tube. Then there's additional distance from the length/angle of the stem, and even more distance to the hoods or drops subject to the handlebar drop & reach specs for drop bars, and with flat bars the sweep and width will tend to shorten the effective reach.

Net effect is for the same frame geometry and stem length, you'll stretch out more on a dropbar bike and sit back/upright more on a flatbar bike.



The calculator on Specialized's site doesn't really account for overall leg length nor does it assess arm length, so it's quite possible for it to recommend an incorrect size. I just checked and it recommends a 56 which I know to be incorrect.

 

[mfgrep]

santa cruz seems to be going against the conventional wisdom here - the flat bar and drop bar skitch have the same frame. same geometry. they do skew the height recommendations a bit, since the hoods on the drop bar bikes are so much further forward than the grips on the flat bar bike :



this is probably extra important because the reach on these bikes seems VERY LONG. at 6’2, they recommend the XL for me, with 435 mm reach. my creo was 391, my aethos 402, my addict 384. 435 is nuts.

as far as i know, most other bikes which offer both bars have slightly different frames, like the diverge. maybe because the reach is so long, it works OK with the less extended flat bars, and they just side down for drop bar riders. that’s what the chart implies.

Given current conditions within the bike industry including over-supply and declined demand...I would think that using the same frame(s) for both drops and flats would make good economic sense to many manufacturers at least in certain cases. The Creo/VadoSL crossover makes sense. I'm surprised that it doesn't happen more often....and I expect that it very well might. Skitch is an excellent example, however, I've never laid my eyes on a Skitch and have not been afforded the opportunity to sit on one. Perhaps that is for the best!

Honda has a first e-vehicle released now called the Prologue. It is essentially a Chevy/GM car built using Honda's bodywork, interior, and software. It might not make Honda an immediate market leader within the e-vehicle space but is sure allows Honda to affordably enter the e-vehicle space.

 

[mschwett]

Given current conditions within the bike industry including over-supply and declined demand...I would think that using the same frame(s) for both drops and flats would make good economic sense to many manufacturers at least in certain cases. The Creo/VadoSL crossover makes sense. I'm surprised that it doesn't happen more often....and I expect that it very well might. Skitch is an excellent example, however, I've never laid my eyes on a Skitch and have not been afforded the opportunity to sit on one. Perhaps that is for the best!

Honda has a first e-vehicle released now called the Prologue. It is essentially a Chevy/GM car built using Honda's bodywork, interior, and software. It might not make Honda an immediate market leader within the e-vehicle space but is sure allows Honda to affordably enter the e-vehicle space.

yeah - i haven’t seen a skitch in the wild yet. i see a few vados and creos most days, and tons and tons and tons of drop bar non electric gravel bikes of all types.

i think the market for these lightweight electric gravel and electric road bikes is just very small. most people who enjoy gravel riding are fit enough to not need an e-bike. hopefully they’ll find success, i think it’s a great niche.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Let me only ask you a single question @mfgrep: What do you expect from a flat handlebar gravel e-bike that Vado SL doesn't have?

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Given current conditions within the bike industry including over-supply and declined demand...I would think that using the same frame(s) for both drops and flats would make good economic sense to many manufacturers at least in certain cases. The Creo/VadoSL crossover makes sense. I'm surprised that it doesn't happen more often....and I expect that it very well might. Skitch is an excellent example, however, I've never laid my eyes on a Skitch and have not been afforded the opportunity to sit on one. Perhaps that is for the best!

Honda has a first e-vehicle released now called the Prologue. It is essentially a Chevy/GM car built using Honda's bodywork, interior, and software. It might not make Honda an immediate market leader within the e-vehicle space but is sure allows Honda to affordably enter the e-vehicle space.

Similar with Toyota's first proper EV bZ4x (very memorable!) they share platform with Subaru. It's off topic but the Japanese sure have been caught napping by the Chinese explosion in EVs. They are beginning to panic.

 

[mschwett]

Let me only ask you a single question @mfgrep: What do you expect from a flat handlebar gravel e-bike that Vado SL doesn't have?

well, you know that i dislike gravel but have ridden plenty of it and most of my friends do more often than i:

1) appropriate geometry out of the box for a bike meant to be ridden fairly fast over long distances - lower stack for less drag, shorter wheelbase for better handling etc etc

2) a light, stiff, compliant frame tuned to respond to the frequency of bumpy gravel. = carbon

3) modern wireless groupset, personally i’d want 2x but that’s controversial

4) some modest damping, whether from future shock or a one piece carbon cockpit, lightweight post, etc.

in other words, more like a creo 2

 

[Stefan Mikes]

4) some modest damping, whether from future shock or a one piece carbon cockpit, lightweight post, etc.

Vado SL 5.0 has FutureShock and a carbon fork. Same as Diverge EVO.

3) modern wireless groupset, personally i’d want 2x but that’s controversial

Only the matter of money spent. Besides, even traditional Specialized gravel bikes are 1x.

2) a light, stiff, compliant frame tuned to respond to the frequency of bumpy gravel. = carbon

Oh. But now Creo 2 E5, aluminium e-bike has been released

1) appropriate geometry out of the box for a bike meant to be ridden fairly fast over long distances - lower stack for less drag, shorter wheelbase for better handling etc etc

You mean, drop-bar geometry for a flat-bar e-bike? Vado SL is designed for the flat-bar

 

[mfgrep]

Let me only ask you a single question @mfgrep: What do you expect from a flat handlebar gravel e-bike that Vado SL doesn't have?

Stefan I'm not really looking for another gravel style bike. I was merely expressing interest in the idea of a Creo with flat bars. I was also suggesting that it could be a sensible manufacturing move for Spesh to discontinue the Vado SL in favor of a Creo frame with flat-bar configuration. Economy of scale within a shrinking marketplace.

My Vado SL is just fine with me! I'm not much of a gravel rider. In fact I ride overwhelmingly paved trails and suburban or city streets. The Vado SL works well for me.
My interest in the Skitch or a flat bar Creo is based largely on the possibility of a more compliant carbon fiber frame. If I had one gripe about my Vado SL it is the rigidity of the frame. As you know I have softened the ride somewhat and I find it entirely acceptable now. Perhaps I'd have been better off with the Vado SL 5.0 given its carbon fork....but again....at the time I could buy two 4.0's for the price that they wanted for the 5.0....so again I'm happy with what I have.

Well now that I think about it...two gripes....I wish my SL was as quiet as my full power Vado!
I particularly find the Vado SL acceptable at the price that I paid and I do not wish to pay $6K or $8K for a similar but carbon version. I remain interested in the options that are out there.....whether I'm a buyer or not.