Logan front brake replacement Ripcurrent s Step thru

[David Paisley]

My Logan front brakes remain spongy and need pumping to get them to work. I have done a gravity bleed and also did a top bleed releasing bubbles. Not working. Has anyone replaced these brakes with something else and, if so , what did you use. Need something with a motor inhibitor. Juice is suppose to replace with Tektro 900, which I think do not exist, and I would rather not have another set of Logans.

 

[Uuzd4S]

My Logan front brakes remain spongy and need pumping to get them to work. I have done a gravity bleed and also did a top bleed releasing bubbles. Not working. Has anyone replaced these brakes with something else and, if so , what did you use. Need something with a motor inhibitor. Juice is suppose to replace with Tektro 900, which I think do not exist, and I would rather not have another set of Logans.

So, I've got a 2019 RipCurrent S with Juiced installed Tektro 180mm HD-E350's Front & Rear. I'm retired and ride this bike Way Too Much. After a little over 2.5 seasons of riding I'd accumulated over 12,000 miles on this E-Bike and had worn my 180mm rotors to below minimums. I went through every system on this E-Bike last winter, except the Crankset and Front Forks (which I'd already replaced the previous winter). I basically refurbished both Calipers and upgraded the 180mm Rotors to 203mm, both F&R. This gives a noticeably more "progressive" feel to braking for this heavy bike. The 180mm's were sufficient but I'm a heavy guy and carry I WAY to much spare/repair equipment, so I can appreciate the additional stopping power.
So, during the Caliper rebuild/cleanup, I'd noticed there was a LOT of air in the rear brake system. This would account for the "spongy" feel this brake had since new and the need to pump the lever to achieve adequate braking. I used a Top bleed method and the brakes are consistently responsive.
If you've bled your brakes thoroughly and they're still spongy there is a problem somewhere. I don't know if Logan Brake Calipers use DOT Brake fluid (automotive type fluid) or Mineral Oil (typically used on bicycle systems), so I'd make sure you've used the correct oil. Second, the Rear Caliper is quite a distance from the lever/reservoir. I was surprised at how much old fluid was in the rear system and how long it took to remove all the air. It's also possible that if you were pumping fluid into the caliper too slowly some bubbles could remain in the system and may not have been flushed. I'd adjusted the position of my bike to optimize bleeding from the Caliper to the reservoir. Also, air could have been re-introduced when you plugged the Caliper Bleed Port if the top was still open. If your new to bleeding Bicycle Hyd Brake Systems I'd recommend watching a few You Tube vids on how it's done. Thats how I did mine for the first time and it helped considerably. Flushing from bottom to top (caliper to reservoir) is best for chasing bubbles out. Obviously I think there's air remaining in the system somehow. It's just very unlikely the Pads or Calipers are the problem. However, that statement assumes the Pads are installed correctly and within wear limits, AND, that your Calipers are retracting properly. If you've got a sticky Caliper it would most likely cause premature brake pad wear and possibly make noise as it may cause a pad to stay in contact with the Rotor. Calipers are easy to clean and adjust and eliminate sticking but AGAIN, I'd look at a few YouTube Vid on doing this particular job. You want to use the correct materials and avoid popping a piston from the Caliper bracket.
As far as Tektro 900 series Brakes go, there is a 900A model that's "side pull" or "rim" style brake. but I couldn't locate a Tektro E-Bike Hydraulic Brake System in a 900 series. The Tektro HD-E350 system is still available from $180 bucks on up for a complete set. They have the "motor cuttoff" switch in the levers but you may have to do some soldering to use the same electrical connectors. https://www.ablebike.com/tektro-hd-e725-hydraulic-brake-p0978.html
All that said, I'd opt for a Tektro E-Bike system that's still in production with 2mm thickness rotors. The HD-E350 Rotors are 1.8mm thick and the industry has moved to 2mm+ Rotors by now. The mounts Front and Rear, while not a "standard" within the bike brake industry, are Very common at a 74.17mm base for the Caliper Brackets. http://www.tektro.com/upload/Product/F_20170825165933nvAGKi.PDF
Happy Trails! BW

 

[David Paisley]

Thank you for your very detailed reply. I have watched multiple YouTube videos on the subject and have tried multiple bleed methods. The bike has 250 miles on it. I have ordered a different "cup" with stopper to see if that is the problem. There is no information, manuals etc on Logan brakes. It is my front brake that is the problem. When Juiced told me it was the Tektro 900 and I could not find anything about it, including the Tektro site, I lost all confidence in Juiced support. They say the "900" is coming in. I will keep trying the bleed and may try new pads, though the pads look fine. Looks like the Logan uses Shimano Deore pads.

 

[Uuzd4S]

Thank you for your very detailed reply. I have watched multiple YouTube videos on the subject and have tried multiple bleed methods. The bike has 250 miles on it. I have ordered a different "cup" with stopper to see if that is the problem. There is no information, manuals etc on Logan brakes. It is my front brake that is the problem. When Juiced told me it was the Tektro 900 and I could not find anything about it, including the Tektro site, I lost all confidence in Juiced support. They say the "900" is coming in. I will keep trying the bleed and may try new pads, though the pads look fine. Looks like the Logan uses Shimano Deore pads. View attachment 125794

Yea, been through the Juiced Customer Service Ringer pretty hard myself. It's a shame because one thing I learned in advertising is that you can't buy better than "word of mouth" testimonials as an advertising source. And, thanks to Social Media, people are gonna find out quickly weather your any good at what you do. The Negative proves the Positive, if you can win by treating people with Good Customer Support, you can die by it also. It's a shame that Juiced Does make a product with Good overall Value. Not cheapest or most expensive, but you get pretty good "bang for your buck" with their bikes, except for the Customer Support. They could do SO much better if they treated folks better after the sale. I've read where Juiced has "Promised" to act more responsibly within this Forum, but I haven't heard the same from their customers.
Well, it sounds as your "doing it right" with your brake maintenance methods. I'm no expert at it, I just do as much homework as practical before tackling a mtx job I'm not totally familiar with. Another benefit of the Interweb ; ) If you do a search for "Bicycle Brake Pad Compatibility Chart" you'll find more info than you could ever use but it's not to hard to weed out what you need to know. Yea, I'm puzzled over this one. It sounds very solvable on it's face but I don't know enough about Logan Hyd Brakes to think what would cause a "spongy" feel other than air in the system. If there's a specific Model # etched somewhere on them, I could find an IPC (illustrated parts catalog) and look into the system particulars with greater detail. One thing I've learned about Bicycles is that they don't share much in common. Tektro, SRAM and others copy Shimano and put out less expensive products, which fits Juiced MO nicely. Like the Tektro HD-E350 brake system on my RipCurrent S. That particular brake Tektro brake system had gone out of production before I got my bike in New in Nov 2019. The same with the Shimano Altus 9 Speed Gearset, it was out of production before I got my bike. Juiced likes to do that, buy off the shelf systems in quantity at a discount, such as discontinued item's. The Good news is, parts and Upgraded Systems are still available from Tektro and Shimano. I can deal with that.
That said, if the front caliper has a stuck puck (that sounded funny) it should be easily fixed, but ya gotta be careful not to pop either side out. But with only 250 miles that system is just worn in by now. There are many brake pad compounds in use that can create different "feel" and braking characteristics. Generally speaking, the softer compounds (like Organic Resin or Resin pads) provide a more progressive braking effect while the Metal and Ceramic compounds fade less and feel more responsive. The tradeoff is that Resin pads wear more quickly, tend to be a little less expensive and make your Rotors last much longer. The Metal and Ceramic Compounds tend to wear less and last longer, are a bit more spendy and will wear out your Rotors faster than Resin Pads. The only other thing I can think of is that even though your bleeding the system correctly, there may be a leaking bleed port plug on either end. My Tektro's come with a very small, hard to see and easily damaged Bleed Port Seal that ya don't wanna lose or damage. The Bleed system I'd purchased had spare Bleed Port Seals with the kit. I've had to use one of them at the reservoir Bleed Port Plug. I bought this kit, even though it's not currently available the Chinese have NO copywrite laws, meaning it's been copied or reproduced by now; https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZC4Q471/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I guess lastly I'd recommend calling a local Bicycle Repair Shop, talk to the mechanic and see if you can avoid letting them talk you into dropping your bike off at their shop. Ya might get lucky and find someone willing to give some advise.
Happy Trails! bw

 

[David Paisley]

Thanks for your help. I specifically asked Juiced for a manual for the brakes. No luck finding them anywhere. I am guessing I might be able to pull the motor cutoff sensor out of the Logan housing and put it into a new Tektro housing to avoid having to wire it. Something I will try before wiring. I have a few moves up my sleeve in trying to fix it anyway.

 

[IOUZIP]

I have 3 Juiced Ripcurrent S one is a step thru. The brakes can be difficult to fix if you are not sure how to do it. Talk to a local bike shop about bringing the bike in to address the brakes. Learn from the bike shop tech so next time you can better understand the brake system. For my bikes I have settled on the follow. 203mm rotor up front with stock calipers (adapter required). For the rear I like the 180mm rotor because when I had the larger 203mm I would always kick the rotor when putting down the kickstand. I did eventually get a brake bleed kit which I have used many times on these bikes.

 

[Uuzd4S]

I have 3 Juiced Ripcurrent S one is a step thru. The brakes can be difficult to fix if you are not sure how to do it. Talk to a local bike shop about bringing the bike in to address the brakes. Learn from the bike shop tech so next time you can better understand the brake system. For my bikes I have settled on the follow. 203mm rotor up front with stock calipers (adapter required). For the rear I like the 180mm rotor because when I had the larger 203mm I would always kick the rotor when putting down the kickstand. I did eventually get a brake bleed kit which I have used many times on these bikes.

Hey ZipOnator! SO, last time we've crossed paths within these Forum's, you'd just acquired a New Step-Thru RipCurrent S, the pretty Blue one if I remember right, nice color. And now I see you've got 3 of these Beasty Fat Bikes. Did you spring for one of these ? https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/new-ripcurrent-s
Bigger, Mo Powerful 1000w Motor, Open to Class III programming and upgradable to 1350watts, Upgraded G2 Batt (I bought on when Juiced was taking "pre-orders), Cuter Throttle (is cuter a word?), Upgraded TorqueOnator Sensor, Happier Handlebar, Sexier Fenders . . . . with an Off Brand Brake Set and Shifting Gearset : (
I've been Really temped to buy one. Got close to 14,000 on the ol'e 2019 Model and I'm keeping an ear tuned to that BAFANG. So far Inspector #5 appears to have been "on the ball" the day he/she blessed my BAFANG!
Happy Trails !

 

[David Paisley]

Thanks for your help. I specifically asked Juiced for a manual for the brakes. No luck finding them anywhere. I am guessing I might be able to pull the motor cutoff sensor out of the Logan housing and put it into a new Tektro housing to avoid having to wire it. Something I will try before wiring. I have a few moves up my sleeve in trying to fix it anyway.

Well, they finally sent me new Tektro e350 brakes and they were wired correctly ( the motor cutoff switch) so it was very easy to take the Logans out and put new Tektros in. They work much better than the Logans.

 

[Uuzd4S]

Well, they finally sent me new Tektro e350 brakes and they were wired correctly ( the motor cutoff switch) so it was very easy to take the Logans out and put new Tektros in. They work much better than the Logans.

That's Very Good News! It's good to know that Juiced has addressed the problem, as least with a proven Brake System Replacement. And, it's good to know the Logan's & Tektro's are interchangeable. I noticed that Juiced has switched from Shimano Shifting equipment to some Brand I've not heard of for the New RipCurrent S. Interesting : /
Happy Trails Ombre, Thx 4 the update ; )

 

[David Paisley]

That's Very Good News! It's good to know that Juiced has addressed the problem, as least with a proven Brake System Replacement. And, it's good to know the Logan's & Tektro's are interchangeable. I noticed that Juiced has switched from Shimano Shifting equipment to some Brand I've not heard of for the New RipCurrent S. Interesting : /
Happy Trails Ombre, Thx 4 the update ; )

My first Ripcurrent (sold to a friend) had Microshift and I liked them better than Shimano. Seemed very tight and precise in the shifting. My present Ripcurrent came with the Shimano. They are mixing up the components.

 

[Dunbar]

The Logan rear brake on my six month old CCX gradually stopped working. Last week it would work if you pumped the brake handle 2-3 times every time you needed to stop but this week I get nothing. Tried bleeding it but it didn’t make a difference. Juiced offered to send me a replacement but I’d rather not keep changing them out. They offered to sell me the Tektro E350s for 20% off so I took them up on that. The Tektros on my old Cross Current worked flawlessly for six years.

 

[jrhoffman75]

Well, they finally sent me new Tektro e350 brakes and they were wired correctly ( the motor cutoff switch) so it was very easy to take the Logans out and put new Tektros in. They work much better than the Logans.

Could you use the old hoses by disconnecting from lever and caliper or did you replace hoses as well?

 

[David Paisley]

No need the brakes came complete with hoses attached. Handle to brake. pull out the whole unit and replace the whole unit.

 

[BlueRidgeBoy]

Friends, I’m way late to this party but reading the chat with interest. After 9 months and 2k miles of daily commuting on my RipCurrent base model, here’s what I’d say: the Logan brakes are off-brand garbage. My rear brake failed twice - both times the pistons, and the second time three weeks after they sent me a replacement Logan rear unit. My front brake is on its way to failure. If you don’t have them, I’d recommend switching to Tektro HD-E350 two-pistons at least, even if you have to buy them yourself (Juiced seem to run out of Tektros a lot). Save yourself the hassle - and life safety concerns - with the Logans. Otherwise a great bike.

 

[Uuzd4S]

Friends, I’m way late to this party but reading the chat with interest. After 9 months and 2k miles of daily commuting on my RipCurrent base model, here’s what I’d say: the Logan brakes are off-brand garbage. My rear brake failed twice - both times the pistons, and the second time three weeks after they sent me a replacement Logan rear unit. My front brake is on its way to failure. If you don’t have them, I’d recommend switching to Tektro HD-E350 two-pistons at least, even if you have to buy them yourself (Juiced seem to run out of Tektros a lot). Save yourself the hassle - and life safety concerns - with the Logans. Otherwise a great bike.

Hey Blue Ridge, this paticular thread pretty much confirms what I believe is the reason Juiced switched from Tektro's to the Logans. Since the Brake Lever Sensors are interchangeable it tells you the Logans are a Tektro knock-off.
There are No patent laws in China, anything can be copied, even the name. It just seems to be a formula for riding the coattails of a successful product by putting out a cheaper, lower quality, product and making a quick buck. Tora is well connected in China and has more than likely gone w/ a cheaper product w/ the Brakes & Drivetrain on the RCS.
I vested in the New RCS w/ the higher power Bafang motor (good product), and immediately swapped out the Brake System for Tektro E-725's (4 piston calipers) w/ the 203mm rotor option and a Shimano 10 Speed drive train set.
What's interesting here is that Tektro basically copied the Shimano brake set as the Brake Pads are completely interchangeable. Once a copied product catches on (in China), they start putting some quality into it, but the originals will generally have issues. Juiced has replaced many of these Logan Brakes under warranty & otherwise so they're Well aware of the problems. Maybe future Logans will be improved if they plan to stay w/ the brand.
Happy Trails !

 

[BlueRidgeBoy]

Good input, @Uuzd4S. I couldn’t quite bring myself (yet) to spring for 4-piston Tektros, but I can absolutely see the argument: lots of weight, lots of speed. E-bike tech is an emerging and evolving field. Larger rotors and 4-pistons may be ubiquitous one day. One other thing I’ll say: organic pads may be great on acoustic bikes, but they aren’t suited to the higher temps and friction. I blew through my first pads in about two months. Treat yourself to sintered pads! Ok one other other thing I’ll say: I’m amazed there aren’t yet more known players in the e-bike disc brake market - ie brakes with electric cutoffs. Shimano and SRAM don’t make them. Tektro has a near monopoly. I’m sure this will change. And yes, I’d love to believe your suggestion that Logan will get better in time. Ride on!

 

[Uuzd4S]

Good input, @Uuzd4S. I couldn’t quite bring myself (yet) to spring for 4-piston Tektros, but I can absolutely see the argument: lots of weight, lots of speed. E-bike tech is an emerging and evolving field. Larger rotors and 4-pistons may be ubiquitous one day. One other thing I’ll say: organic pads may be great on acoustic bikes, but they aren’t suited to the higher temps and friction. I blew through my first pads in about two months. Treat yourself to sintered pads! Ok one other other thing I’ll say: I’m amazed there aren’t yet more known players in the e-bike disc brake market - ie brakes with electric cutoffs. Shimano and SRAM don’t make them. Tektro has a near monopoly. I’m sure this will change. And yes, I’d love to believe your suggestion that Logan will get better in time. Ride on!

Ohhhh, Ubiquitous . . . Luv the sound of that word so I finally goggled the meaning and will be using it soon ! Good Stuff .
Yea, I've never tried sintered pads on my old RCS, probably because I'm German & a bit too OCD to let my brain actually fire on more than two neurons at a time. Once in a while that third Neuron kicks in that's been bouncing round the right hemisphere and I think, That may be a good Idea !?! I did however wear out my 160mm Rotors on Resin pads at about 5K miles and installed the Tektro 203mm's. That proved to be a Good idea as there was a very noticeable difference in the Braking rate, IOW, they had a more "progressive" feel & better control. I'd just switched to another new set of 203's @ 16K on the original RCS and put it up for sale.
The 160mm stock rotors are Barely adequate for this heavy Fat Tire E-bike, especially when it's loaded w/ all my gear, accessories, backpack & fat ass. I had a couple of Panic stops w/ the original 160's and they held up OK, it's the extended use of braking where you felt a noticeable amount of Fade w/ the Resin pads. The 203's absorb more heat and extended braking definitely held up better than the 160's but I'm sure I've been close to brake fade with the larger rotors on a few occasions.
The choice behind sticking w/ Resin pads was simply to save on Rotor wear. The Tektro HD-E725's came out of the package w/ Resin pads & 180mm Rotors and so I'm going to wear those out before installing the 203's I have waiting on the shelf. Obviously, the larger pad footprint with the 4 piston calipers are going to absorb more heat, and therefore should produce less Rotor wear. I'll likely wear out the 180's on the New RCS, swap to the larger 203's w/ Resin pads and then follow w/ some sintered pads just to have a comparison. Here's a link to the E725's on that Jungle website.
Somewhere in my search for replacement brakes for the Logans, I found an article on speed ratings for Tektro Brakes and according to that spec sheet, the stock 160mm Rotors under the E350 Brake set isn't sufficient for the RCS. I'll see if I can locate that article and drop it in the thread here.
Hope the Hyperlink works, it's my first attempt at inserting a "link" into a word/sentence.
Happy Trails BlueRidgeDude !