Giant AUTO Mode: A No Go

[Stefan Mikes]

The last time I was riding my Giant Trance E+ 2 Pro in AUTO mode turned out to be the penultimate time... I had the 500 Wh battery and after riding 55 km was left with the pedals only, in torrential rain and lost off-road. Having acquired the 625 Wh EnergyPak Smart, I gave the AUTO mode the last chance, and decided to be observant during the ride.

My observations:

1. The AUTO mode gives far too much assistance when you actually don't need it. You put no effort in pedalling; the same could be achieved by using higher PAS manual modes.
2. When you need more assistance (riding uphill), the support is actually decreased until you downshift and increase the cadence.
3. The ride feels unnatural, and the bike makes jerky movements as if the controller actually were not sure what to do next.
4. The battery use, and in consequence, the range is unpredictable.

With the ride in ideal conditions, mostly good asphalt and a little bit of easy off-road (and the tyres inflated to the allowed max), 19% of battery charge was left after 64 km (40 mi). Since the last 20% are eaten extremely fast by Giant e-bikes, I estimate the real and safe range to be 67 km (43 mi) with the 625 Wh battery. Not a dramatic gain compared to the 55 km on the 500 Wh battery, just 25% more as expected.

Of course, the range as described pertains to my e-bike, my person (the leg power input and rider's weight are important), flat terrain, ideal temperature, hardly any wind, etc. (It is important I was riding at the U.S. Class 1 speed).

Now, let us talk the Manual modes. Once, I rode the Trance off-road in the mixed PAS 1 & 2 mode and the 500 Wh battery was good for 64 km (50 miles). With the 25% higher charge of the larger battery, it should be good for 80 km (50 miles).

The AUTO mode is a no go for me. Not giving proper workout, unpredictable battery use, uneven assistance make the AUTO mode useless for me. I need to know how far I could ride on the battery beforehand. The range can be precisely controlled by tuning the motor with the RideControl App. The only excuse for the AUTO mode is it is the default mode for Giant e-bikes equipped with the RideControl ONE remote; a casual (or inexperienced) rider doesn't need to think about PAS modes and can enjoy easy albeit short rides.

I've got far nicer outcome when using SmartControl feature of the Specialized Mission Control App. There, riding a Vado felt very natural, and the battery range was far better than when using any Manual modes. From now on, I will only ride my Trance E+ in carefully tuned Manual modes.

Share your experiences with the Giant AUTO mode. (The actual range is not that important as it really depends on the rider in the first place).

 

[RandallS]

I have tried the auto mode each time I go out, and each time I go back to manual control. It's not for me...

 

[pmcdonald]

I initially wasn't a fan but ended up using it a fair bit on my daily commute. The ride involves a fair bit of stop-start, slowing down around pedestrians and a few short but sharp hills. Auto does a good job of adapting.

The worst I can say is there's a 2 second lag before the power really kicks in when I need it. The ramp up is smooth enough, it's just not always as immediate as I'd like.

I think the keys to using it effectively are smooth pedal inputs and anticipating your power needs a couple of seconds in advance - kind of like driving a dual clutch VW really..

As Stefan notes I wouldn't rely on it for longer rides as it tends to go a bit hard and runs the battery down excessively.

 

[iskjone]

I really thought Version 1.4.2 was the best example of AUTO mode. In the latest version (1.4.5) it's not natural feeling and the motor will unexpectedly surge. The software/firmware developers don't appear to know how to interpret and integrate data coming from the sensors. I feel that a slight cadence increase is given too much weight over torque input and sampling isn't nearly quick enough. That's what my pants-o-meter says but that's just a personal view. Come on Giant, you're struggling with six variables? Why not make the entire app tune able where owners can customize entries from sensor tables? I'm sure I can screw it up as well as they can.

 

[bob armani]

The last time I was riding my Giant Trance E+ 2 Pro in AUTO mode turned out to be the penultimate time... I had the 500 Wh battery and after riding 55 km was left with the pedals only, in torrential rain and lost off-road. Having acquired the 625 Wh EnergyPak Smart, I gave the AUTO mode the last chance, and decided to be observant during the ride.

My observations:

1. The AUTO mode gives far too much assistance when you actually don't need it. You put no effort in pedalling; the same could be achieved by using higher PAS manual modes.
2. When you need more assistance (riding uphill), the support is actually decreased until you downshift and increase the cadence.
3. The ride feels unnatural, and the bike makes jerky movements as if the controller actually were not sure what to do next.
4. The battery use, and in consequence, the range is unpredictable.

With the ride in ideal conditions, mostly good asphalt and a little bit of easy off-road (and the tyres inflated to the allowed max), 19% of battery charge was left after 64 km (40 mi). Since the last 20% are eaten extremely fast by Giant e-bikes, I estimate the real and safe range to be 67 km (43 mi) with the 625 Wh battery. Not a dramatic gain compared to the 55 km on the 500 Wh battery, just 25% more as expected.

Of course, the range as described pertains to my e-bike, my person (the leg power input and rider's weight are important), flat terrain, ideal temperature, hardly any wind, etc. (It is important I was riding at the U.S. Class 1 speed).

Now, let us talk the Manual modes. Once, I rode the Trance off-road in the mixed PAS 1 & 2 mode and the 500 Wh battery was good for 64 km (50 miles). With the 25% higher charge of the larger battery, it should be good for 80 km (50 miles).

The AUTO mode is a no go for me. Not giving proper workout, unpredictable battery use, uneven assistance make the AUTO mode useless for me. I need to know how far I could ride on the battery beforehand. The range can be precisely controlled by tuning the motor with the RideControl App. The only excuse for the AUTO mode is it is the default mode for Giant e-bikes equipped with the RideControl ONE remote; a casual (or inexperienced) rider doesn't need to think about PAS modes and can enjoy easy albeit short rides.

I've got far nicer outcome when using SmartControl feature of the Specialized Mission Control App. There, riding a Vado felt very natural, and the battery range was far better than when using any Manual modes. From now on, I will only ride my Trance E+ in carefully tuned Manual modes.

Share your experiences with the Giant AUTO mode. (The actual range is not that important as it really depends on the rider in the first place).

I do not have this feature on mine, so I don't know what I am missing. Perhaps the Bosch version of this (eMTB mode) has more favorable functionality?
More points to ponder.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Who needs AUTO, Bob...

 

[cbcler]

Auto mode, before Giant messed it up, was great for mtn bike riding. Now it takes too long to kick in. When I am trying to start up steep hill, I need immediate torque assistance. Don't have time to get my cadence up. I mostly ride in level 2 or 3 now. BTW, the Gamin EBIKE IQ app now works with my 2020 Giant Trance E+. I am to see assist level and battery level. Very handy. No need to open the RideControl app anymore.

 

[Judebarnes]

You can adjust the auto mode with the smartphone app a d fine tune it to your needs

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You can adjust the auto mode with the smartphone app a d fine tune it to your needs

Please educate me.

 

[Judebarnes]

I haven't installed it yet but my bike shop sales people showed it to me and said I could adjust each level of assist which (they said) would in turn, affect how auto mode applies each level of assist. Take a look at the app screenshots at this web page.

‎RideControl e-bike app

‎RideControl e-bike app The world of connectivity opens up for your Giant E-bike with the launch of our RideControl E-bike App. This new app makes it possible to connect your phone with your E-bike. It differentiates itself from other cycling apps with three core functions including tuning poss…

apps.apple.com

The issue I've run into on my 2021 LaFree is a slight drag when turning corners in high gears, then it will correct itself. Was hoping I could get into this app and tweak it a bit to see if I could correct that.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

First of all, you are referring to the older Ride Control 1 app, which has been replaced by Ride Control 2:

RideControl - Apple

Apple Store Search Results

www.apple.com

Secondly, I might agree with you tuning each Assist Level would affect how the Auto mode worked. Unfortunately, doing so does not change the fundamental fact that the Giant Auto mode doesn't give the user any real control over the mode. Try this: Set your Liv e-bike to AUTO. Start riding, reach a hill and begin climbing. What anyone could expect would be the inclination sensor told the bike to increase the assist but it doesn't happen so. Instead, you're expected to downshift and increase your cadence.

Giant/Liv AUTO mode doesn't give the rider any tools to estimate the real range on the battery.

Let me give a comparison with Smart Control feature of Mission Control app of Specialized, that effectively is an AUTO mode. There, you can specify:

• Time you want to ride for, and the expected battery level after the ride. Say, 3 hours net, 20% battery left, or
• Distance you want to ride and expected elevation gain en route, and the battery level left after the ride. For instance, you need to ride for 40 miles with 1000 ft of elevation gain with 10% battery left. Smart Control will be adjusting the assistance automatically to meet your criteria, or
• You remotely connect a heart rate strap to the e-bike. You tell Smart Control how the motor should assist you so you can maintain a constant heart rate.

It is not to say Giant/Liv e-bikes are any bad. On contrary, these are reliable, sturdy e-bikes that very rarely fail; excellent specifications at reasonable price. That's why I ride a Giant e-MTB instead of a Specialized one.

Yet, Giant/Liv e-bikes are very poor on the software side, including the Auto Mode, to which many owners will agree. My conclusion is riding Giant/Liv e-bikes in manually tuned Assistance Modes is the most practical way to make the best use of the e-bike.

 

[Judebarnes]

Another way to look at it is (from what I remember) not many other manufacturers even have an auto mode at all. (I test rode about 10 different bikes from various manufacturers and dont remember it on any of them) I find the auto mode quite pleasant and have to admit it was a main point of buying the LaFree -- to not have to fiddle with assist while riding.
I see what you are saying though .. but with what little I know about it all, the price point and overall quality of the LaFree together gives me the feeling while I'm riding it that it's a huge bang for the buck -- for all of the features and design in one. All of those features you are hoping for in an Auto Mode is probably something we can hope for in future Giant models, but seems pretty great to me as it is already. For short rides using auto mode (for me) makes the ride quick and easy and pleasant -- far from a "no go" to be sure -- quite the opposite. For longer rides, or where heart rate goal is needed, then dialing in the proper assist mode may be required. My son and I rode ours on Auto mode for a 40mile round trip in auto mode just to see how far we could push it with 400foot elevation change each leg (800 total) and that gives us a good feel for what the limits are and when we need to dial it back to a lower assist for further rides.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Yes, you are right in many aspects Jude. The fact the AUTO mode is not the option of my dreams doesn't invalidate the fact riding in AUTO is pleasant (at the cost of battery, of course). I should be less assertive for sure

Thank you for sharing your views!

 

[percymon]

Limited experience of Auto as its not one of the modes i've used much - i'd rather have more control over my physical inputs. What the mode can't do is see what's ahead of you, so it can only react to what the sensors are telling it; hence why it's not too bad for road use but not well liked for sudden gradient changes found on MTB trails - i'd argue though that in both cases the rider should be planning ahead somewhat with gear selection/cadence and not expecting the bike to handle everything for them - i don't have an issue selecting gears and/or changing modes to suit what i see ahead.

For those wanting to use a MTB for commuting purposes as well as trail riding, then i can see auto being a reasonable, if lazy, option - not ideal in terms of efficiency/range but it does give the rider one less thing to worry about in busy scenarios such as high pedestrian/traffic/road junctions etc

 

[Oski1997]

Another way to look at it is (from what I remember) not many other manufacturers even have an auto mode at all. (I test rode about 10 different bikes from various manufacturers and dont remember it on any of them) I find the auto mode quite pleasant and have to admit it was a main point of buying the LaFree -- to not have to fiddle with assist while riding.
I see what you are saying though .. but with what little I know about it all, the price point and overall quality of the LaFree together gives me the feeling while I'm riding it that it's a huge bang for the buck -- for all of the features and design in one. All of those features you are hoping for in an Auto Mode is probably something we can hope for in future Giant models, but seems pretty great to me as it is already. For short rides using auto mode (for me) makes the ride quick and easy and pleasant -- far from a "no go" to be sure -- quite the opposite. For longer rides, or where heart rate goal is needed, then dialing in the proper assist mode may be required. My son and I rode ours on Auto mode for a 40mile round trip in auto mode just to see how far we could push it with 400foot elevation change each leg (800 total) and that gives us a good feel for what the limits are and when we need to dial it back to a lower assist for further rides.

The Yamaha YDX-Moro Pro has a very effective auto mode AND it also has zero cadence support so the motor helps you the second you put any pressure on the pedal with zero lag.

 

[Judebarnes]

Would love to try one! But for sure I'd still go with the Lafree, because that Moro Pro appears to be twice the cost. I also really like the look of the lafree , I've bonded quite well with this model and will be bummed if I ever have to upgrade and they've stopped making bikes with batteries mounted in the back.

 

[Oski1997]

Would love to try one! But for sure I'd still go with the Lafree, because that Moro Pro appears to be twice the cost. I also really like the look of the lafree , I've bonded quite well with this model and will be bummed if I ever have to upgrade and they've stopped making bikes with batteries mounted in the back.

Yeah, for 1/2 the price I don’t blame you. Wow, what a great deal!!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The Yamaha YDX-Moro Pro has a very effective auto mode AND it also has zero cadence support so the motor helps you the second you put any pressure on the pedal with zero lag.

Simply Giant Syncdrive Pro is Yamaha PW-X2 (but you know it). I have been trying to use the Auto mode for several times. Always: jerky motor response; excessive assistance on the flat and inadequate support uphill; lack of control on battery charge consumption.

I will probably repeat myself but I believe the inadequate Auto mode performance is the outcome of automatic switching of preset Assist Modes instead of continuously varying the current to the motor. Saying than, I am happy with the Manual modes and never use Auto anymore. (I don't use Auto Exposure in my DLSR camera either; and mostly focus in Manual Focus; camera Full Auto is only good in my pocket cameras)

P.S. Zero Cadence can be fantastic in some situations. I would, however, prefer to be able to switch it off or configure (like in Specialized Turbo Levo). I hate leaving my foot off the pedal when I wait for a signal change at a junction... While Zero Cadence in technical uphill riding is just great.

 

[Atebit]

I certainly wish I had seen this four year old thread before I bought my Trance E+ 3.

Here, I thought that it was only me that was scratching my head as to why I was getting more assistance on the flat than on hills. The LBS touted Giant’s “six-sensor” tech. Having six sensors is great, but their inputs need to be used in a way that results in useful assistance.

I was really hoping that RideControl would make Auto tunable, but sadly 4 years later that’s not yet the case.