2025 Vuelta a Espana

I'm just back from a four day stage race in VT, where I was with the Juniors (ages 15-18) for the road race stages. A local Junior development team won GC. EF Education did not dominate as expected, partly because Enzo Hincapie was selected for Worlds. Several other Canadian Junior teams placed top ten. I have a day off today for rest, and I need it.

As for Ayuso, this is a very sad situation for both parties. It was inevitable, though. You can't keep a team with three legitimate team leaders together when only one is selected by team management to win. Ayuso had his reasons, and I'd like to know more, but not now. He needs to stay in this race. One more comment and he's out. I'd like to also hear UAE team management's side, but that might be tough to do. Their mealy mouth statement today was expected, but a joke.

Great racing so far today.
 
Just watched the last KMs of the 1st stage of the tour of Britain. Pretty good line up this year, Remco back on the bike. Alaphilippe, Brennan, Bilbao, Oscar Onley plus it's Geraint's last ever race before he retires.
 
Can you start a new thread for it? I don't know who is covering it in the USA, so updates would be nice.
 
This business with Ayuso and UAE is getting pretty ugly. Does this kind of public drama happen often in pro cycling?
 
Yes. Especially towards the end of the season. The UCI has rules about rider contracts, teams, contract changes, minimum pay, etc. Silly season usually opens up after the Tour de France.
 
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Jeremy McCreary said:
This business with Ayuso and UAE is getting pretty ugly. Does this kind of public drama happen often in pro cycling?
Click to expand...
Oh yes! Way back in 1987 Stephen Roche rode for an Italian team (Carrera) in that year's Giro & the team picked their Italian star rider (and 86 Giro winner) as team leader, famous playboy Roberto Visentini. Little love between both and Roche felt he was the better rider so disobeyed team orders and rode against Visentini. Fireworks ensued! Tifosi attacking Roche on the mountain, punching him, throwing piss at him, the team riding against him. rider betrayals, team management threats to send riders home! This story had it all. Here's a great article about the battle:

www.cyclingnews.com

Not a betrayal, just business: Visentini, Roche and the 1987 Giro d'Italia

'Why would I go to a Carrera party? To see the guys who made me lose the race?'
www.cyclingnews.com www.cyclingnews.com

If a team has 2 hotshots, like in Formula 1 it can be very hard to manage. But great entertainment.
 
Rás Cnoic said:
o

Oh yes! Way back in 1987 Stephen Roche rode for an Italian team (Carrera) in that year's Giro & the team picked their Italian star rider (and 86 Giro winner) as team leader, famous playboy Roberto Visentini. Little love between both and Roche felt he was the better rider so disobeyed team orders and rode against Visentini. Fireworks ensued! Tifosi attacking Roche on the mountain, punching him, throwing piss at him, the team riding against him. rider betrayals, team management threats to send riders home! This story had it all. Here's a great article about the battle:

www.cyclingnews.com

Not a betrayal, just business: Visentini, Roche and the 1987 Giro d'Italia

'Why would I go to a Carrera party? To see the guys who made me lose the race?'
www.cyclingnews.com www.cyclingnews.com

If a team has 2 hotshots, like in Formula 1 it can be very hard to manage. But great entertainment.
Click to expand...
Wow, I think there's a telenovela episode about that.
 
OK, former racers @stompandgo and @Rás Cnoic , some technical questions about drafting in still air. Assume N equally aero riders drafting in a perfect line, the guy out front being Rider 1.

Q1. How does the benefit to Rider N vary as N grows?

Q2. Does Rider 1's burden change in any way as N grows?

Q3. Is there an N beyond which it would more advantageous to join a shorter line?

Thanks!
 
Jeremy McCreary said:
OK, former racers @stompandgo and @Rás Cnoic , some technical questions about drafting in still air. Assume N equally aero riders drafting in a perfect line, the guy out front being Rider 1.

Q1. How does the benefit to Rider N vary as N grows?

Q2. Does Rider 1's burden change in any way as N grows?

Q3. Is there an N beyond which it would more advantageous to join a shorter line?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Can you put that in English?!
 
I get what he's saying.

Q1. The draft from a single rider (R1) can vary from significant to very significant. It's not just the size of R1, it's their riding position on the bike, speed, cadence, riding style, etc. The draft envelope changes with these factors, but it's primarily an inverted V shape, with R1's front wheel as the tip of the spear.

Q2. I think that you are implying that R1's uses watts to "suck" all the wheelsuckers behind him. I'm sure some numbers guy like @mschwett can provide some data on whether this exists, but it's insignificant based on my racing experience. Other factors, like the ones listed in Q1 above, plus the prevailing wind, road elevation, road conditions, etc. have a significant affect. For example, it takes more power to lead on wet roads, or on bumpy roads.

Q3. Are you talking about R1 or everyone? For R1, as I said in Q2, it doesn't matter much. To everyone else, the longer the line, the smaller the draft, and the more work everyone has to do. In racing, we call that race situation "lined out". It's a tactical move by the riders on the front to both open a gap and burn riders off the back. The smaller the field is, the less competitors you have to deal with.

I hope this helps.
 
Tomorrow's Stage 13 ends with the Angliru — which may well be the most hyped climb in my 3 years of watching pro cycling.

Decided to see what all the fuss it about. You may enjoy this.

 
Here's Jan Ulrich heading up the Angliru in its debut year 1999 - with a triple front chainring! Came across this yesterday, never seen a triple in action, they generally used such high gears back then, mind you that looks like a 26 or a 28 on the back so maybe a 26 -26 low gear? Hats off to Ulrich, whatever it takes! He went on to win the GC.

IMG_0980.jpeg
 
Quite a Stage 13 finish. I was rooting for Jonas but happy to see Almeida get a win after all the non-help he's been getting from his team. Could there be more than Ayuso drama going on there?
 
stompandgo said:
I get what he's saying.

Q1. The draft from a single rider (R1) can vary from significant to very significant. It's not just the size of R1, it's their riding position on the bike, speed, cadence, riding style, etc. The draft envelope changes with these factors, but it's primarily an inverted V shape, with R1's front wheel as the tip of the spear.

Q2. I think that you are implying that R1's uses watts to "suck" all the wheelsuckers behind him. I'm sure some numbers guy like @mschwett can provide some data on whether this exists, but it's insignificant based on my racing experience. Other factors, like the ones listed in Q1 above, plus the prevailing wind, road elevation, road conditions, etc. have a significant affect. For example, it takes more power to lead on wet roads, or on bumpy roads.

Q3. Are you talking about R1 or everyone? For R1, as I said in Q2, it doesn't matter much. To everyone else, the longer the line, the smaller the draft, and the more work everyone has to do. In racing, we call that race situation "lined out". It's a tactical move by the riders on the front to both open a gap and burn riders off the back. The smaller the field is, the less competitors you have to deal with.

I hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Thanks, helps a lot! Really wanted to hear it from someone who's lived it.

Found 2 videos that add more insight from wind tunnel testing and computational fluid dynamics (CFD). The latter's getting pretty good these days.


 
Props to Almeida. What a powerhouse win. A tremendous performance for what amounted to effectively 4 seconds. He didn't celebrate crossing the line, and his interviews were spot on. My respect for him has grown significantly.

Jonas looked like he didn't have anything left. I'm sure the plan was to attack in the steepest section, but it never happened. That was his chance, and he didn't follow through. Two other things concerned me that happened after the race. While warming down on the trainer next to Almeida and Jay Vine, Jonas asked Vine why he "took such risks" while descending today. Vine's response was, paraphrased, "what are you talking about, I was just cruising along". Now, Jay Vine, along with Pidcock, who are on my short list of riders I'd love to have a beer with after the end of a stage race, has a dry sense of humor, and he could have been kidding, or throwing shade on Jonas. The important thing is who asked the question, and even more important is, why? The other thing was his post race interview. He talked too much about his family and not enough about his teammates and losing the stage. I'm probably reading too much into all this, but they are signs that Visma is having issues with him and that there will be changes next year. Mateo and Sepp didn't exactly drag him up the mountain today, either.
 
stompandgo said:
Props to Almeida. What a powerhouse win. A tremendous performance for what amounted to effectively 4 seconds. He didn't celebrate crossing the line, and his interviews were spot on. My respect for him has grown significantly.

Jonas looked like he didn't have anything left. I'm sure the plan was to attack in the steepest section, but it never happened. That was his chance, and he didn't follow through. Two other things concerned me that happened after the race. While warming down on the trainer next to Almeida and Jay Vine, Jonas asked Vine why he "took such risks" while descending today. Vine's response was, paraphrased, "what are you talking about, I was just cruising along". Now, Jay Vine, along with Pidcock, who are on my short list of riders I'd love to have a beer with after the end of a stage race, has a dry sense of humor, and he could have been kidding, or throwing shade on Jonas. The important thing is who asked the question, and even more important is, why? The other thing was his post race interview. He talked too much about his family and not enough about his teammates and losing the stage. I'm probably reading too much into all this, but they are signs that Visma is having issues with him and that there will be changes next year. Mateo and Sepp didn't exactly drag him up the mountain today, either.
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So intrigue in both houses. Team directors need to have kid gloves on these days, lot of tempermental issues with highly strung race horses. It's huge pressure on talent and they are much younger then the Hinault or Indurian generations who peaked around 27, with much needed & gained experience in their 7 or 8 years as a pro to get there, and in a distant world back then without team radios or much DS direction just a hastily written blackboard on the back of a moto or screamed instructions out the car window to the water carriers. The riding is harder then ever I think, maybe the distances have come down, but the intensity is massive. Easy to mentally crack or have a falling out within your team. But Yeah Jonas does talk family a lot. Fascinating that Pog is talking about his retirement and he's what, 26? He's done it all already.

If it's still on Netflix the 3 or 4 seasons of the Movistar doc called The Least Expected Day: Inside the Movistar Team, which was the first racing behind the scenes series on Netflix, is a fascinating watch, looking at how the DSs struggle to control the riders and all the conflict in a team. Really was warts and all and if still available, highly recommended.
 
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