$10,000.00?

Vado undercuts Gazelle and R&M while having a better motor and better software.
Hm, I doubt it. At least in motor space, I don't see why Bosch motors worse. What are the criteria? Power? Noise? Torque? Weight? Software wise it is also debatable, but I probably would agree, that Specialized bikes are more open for integrations than Bosch ecosystem.
 
Hm, I doubt it. At least in motor space, I don't see why Bosch motors worse. What are the criteria? Power? Noise? Torque? Weight? Software wise it is also debatable, but I probably would agree, that Specialized bikes are more open for integrations than Bosch ecosystem.
The Specialized motor does 90 nm of torque in near silence. The Class 3 Bosch motors are noisy as anything. Pedal feel is at least as good as Bosch.

The motor software can be micro-tuned for very specific assistance. The Bosch smart system is decent, and I have it, but I don’t think it’s on par.
 
OK, don't want to do a holy war here, let's assume I agree. Except one fact - those are Brose Motors, not Specialized.
All I’m saying is that people aren’t fools for buying Specialized. Having ridden cheap secondhand bikes (and loving them) for most of my life, the Specialized name means nothing to me. I chose to buy their bikes recently after test riding against the competition.
 
I will never buy a specialized ebike.
Mediocre and overpriced. I had my Chinese/Canadian made ebike to smoke Specialized Emtbs and Vados in my range. You have to realize not everybody on a $12K Specialized ebike is a professional rider. These riders have money but lack the skills and experience to ride it. I run circles around them.
Although I agree with you on skill not necessarily matching dollars paid, I don't think that has anything to do with buying a higher end (costly) bike. I have a friend that has a skill set that allows him to out drive a Porsche with his Miata on the track but I would much rather drive a Porsche.
 
The Specialized motor does 90 nm of torque in near silence. The Class 3 Bosch motors are noisy as anything. Pedal feel is at least as good as Bosch.

The motor software can be micro-tuned for very specific assistance. The Bosch smart system is decent, and I have it, but I don’t think it’s on par.
Just a side note, I recently purchased a Trek Fuel EXE 9.8 XT with the TQ-HPR50 motor. Quite in all three modes, I have yet to hear it sing. Buttery smooth offering 50 nm. For those not familiar with this bike, it's the SL version of a emts. I also have a Vado SL and it's pretty darn quite with very little motor noise.
 
I have never had a specialized because I already hand bosch but also lack of dealers close. but I would say they are better on the software angle for sure. I have three bosch bikes and three nyons and all have their bugs. and all of them now I cant get them to connect to my phone after a reset.
 
I have three bosch bikes and three nyons and all have their bugs. and all of them now I cant get them to connect to my phone after a reset.
It is getting better for sure - since I switched from SmartphoneHub to Nyon, I don't remember much issues with connectivity or functionality. It is limited, opinionated and difficult to integrate into, but core things work well. Next gen Bosch is even better from this side. However I definitely agree Specialized offers more. Main reason I didn't go Specialized were about luck of belt-driven ebikes (never will go back to chain, mine hard requirement) - very few models were there in 2021, comparing to multiple Bosch-powered options in different price groups. Now looks like situation is better and I will definitely consider Specialized when will be looking for ebike replacement.

P.S. Looks like not everything is perfect in Specialized world as well: https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/mission-control-no-longer-supported.55118/
 
I have purchased (and I am waiting for the slow boat from China, I mean Germany) an R&M Supercharger 2 with Rohloff, but with updates/modifications, it is close to AU$12,000. In my defence, I wanted a bike for touring with sufficient range for here in Western Australia. Having the two batteries 'built-in' ticks that box.
 
I have purchased (and I am waiting for the slow boat from China, I mean Germany) an R&M Supercharger 2 with Rohloff, but with updates/modifications, it is close to AU$12,000. In my defence, I wanted a bike for touring with sufficient range for here in Western Australia. Having the two batteries 'built-in' ticks that box.
This is great bike, one of the best on market for touring! Enjoy!
 
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When I rode road bikes a good chink of them came close to $10,000. I thought that was insane until I rode my friends Campy grouped De Rosa . Made my road bike feel cheap but I liked my Ultegra group set Iron Horse. Once I hit a certain mile marker, and loose a certain amount of weight, I'll treat myself to a nicer ebike. My budget is $5000. I could go higher but a ebike shouldn't cost more than my motor scooter. That would be silly to me. Then again I fell in love with a new $8000 motor scooter.

I hope the person who spent 10k on a ebike at least test rode it first! That's one thing I'm not doing again if I can help it, buy another ebike without a good test ride. Everyone has different expectations in what they want and need out of a ebike. For now my Xpedition does what I need.
 
When I rode road bikes a good chink of them came close to $10,000. I thought that was insane until I rode my friends Campy grouped De Rosa . Made my road bike feel cheap but I liked my Ultegra group set Iron Horse. Once I hit a certain mile marker, and loose a certain amount of weight, I'll treat myself to a nicer ebike. My budget is $5000. I could go higher but a ebike shouldn't cost more than my motor scooter. That would be silly to me. Then again I fell in love with a new $8000 motor scooter.

I hope the person who spent 10k on a ebike at least test rode it first! That's one thing I'm not doing again if I can help it, buy another ebike without a good test ride. Everyone has different expectations in what they want and need out of a ebike. For now my Xpedition does what I need.
with a e bike you really will only get better components so spending ,more may not really get you that much more. that R&m has the same bosch motor as the trek.
 
It is getting better for sure - since I switched from SmartphoneHub to Nyon, I don't remember much issues with connectivity or functionality. It is limited, opinionated and difficult to integrate into, but core things work well. Next gen Bosch is even better from this side. However I definitely agree Specialized offers more. Main reason I didn't go Specialized were about luck of belt-driven ebikes (never will go back to chain, mine hard requirement) - very few models were there in 2021, comparing to multiple Bosch-powered options in different price groups. Now looks like situation is better and I will definitely consider Specialized when will be looking for ebike replacement.
I have three neons I have worked out all the bugs. but the last two I reset. cant get them to connect to my phone. but the one thing they all have is the bluetooth connection to my HRM. if the phone connects first the HRM does not connect. but even if you go into bluetooth settings and connect it manually it wont show your HR. it does not help that I may turn the nyon off several times a day so that bumps up the times it may not connect. Learned the hard way you cant switch the nyon between bikes. it works for a while but then stuff starts happening sometimes it may take a month or more.
 
I belong to another thread and someone posted a concern with a flaw on a new e-bike they purchased.

The bike cost the purchaser $10,000.00!!!

I know everyone’s budget is different but even if I were in a position where money was no object, I don’t see myself spending anywhere CLOSE to 5 figures for an electric bike!!

Yes, yes, I know all the to each his own sentiments but $10,000.00 for an electric bicycle?!?!?
I think this is the thread over on the Emtb forums that the OP is referring to: https://www.emtbforums.com/threads/...e-should-i-accept-or-ask-for-a-new-one.38299/

I read the thread this morning. Actually, it's 10.5k.....LOL. Carbon fiber frame. The owner recieved the bike with a nice scratch in the downtube paint that goes down into the carbon fiber. Asking the peanut gallery what he should do......send it back for a new frame or accept 100 bucks that the seller is offering to have the paint "touched up".

Frankly, a carbon fiber frame, imo, is a crapshoot that can go wrong at any time, trashing the frame to the scrap heap. Exuberant jumps that hammer the frame, crashing the bike and cracking some frame component all the way. Stuff like that. I'll stick to aluminum and save the jumping for the Mountain Dew commercials......
 
My answer to this question used to be that I wouldn't pay more than $5,674.39 for an e-bike, but that was a few years ago. 10 minutes ago, I would have adjusted for inflation and said my limit was $6,314.28 if I were in the market for a bike, which I'm not just at this moment. (My point being: Limits are very personal and therefore quite variable! To each their own, etc.)

After reading this post, however, I am reconsidering...

I paid five figures for my Creo. It was worth it to me for a bike that weighs ~28 lbs., has a wireless derailleur that shifts perfectly every time, and has a great adjustable shock-absorbing system.

BTW, ghost-pedaling doesn’t happen on the Creo. Maybe later in life (or sooner, if the arthritic knees complain too much), I’ll wish it did ghost-pedal, or maybe even had an throttle, and I’ll feel a need to replace it. In the meantime, I’ll enjoy what I have, with zero regrets about the cost.

...I want to know more-- at some point-- about a 28lb ebike that has some kind of meaningful suspension for pavement, that was workable for really cracked, terrible, erratic, crumbling tarmac with nearly invisible fault lines, (though I'd like something with straight bars and a different riding position). That could definitely tempt me to raise my personal budget for a non-eMTB, if (and only if) everything financially and physically (health( went right over the next few years!

But that is a different breed of bike. For an eMTB, my limit would still be between 5 and 6K, but that's if I ever got a third eMTB, and I'm not sure I will need to. Mike TPT, I'm not QUITE as paranoid about CF as you are, but... it would always bother me. I don't dump it often, but when I do, it's usually in some weird-ass way, and who knows if the frame is designed for some unlikely impact angle?

The Fuel doesn't tempt me... I see the appeal, but an SL eMTB is considered 40 lbs?! Can't think of why I'd do that when I already have "Mercury," Pedaluma's outlaw Class III custom hardtail based on a Marin Team 1, tricked out with ergo bars, that tips the scales at 42 lbs. Yeah, it's a hard tail, but I really don't need fs for 85% of my riding, and the Marin can handle half of the remaining 15% after I figure out the chain line issues, and if I adjust my riding style a bit.

It has taken me months to learn how to ride this bike-- everything ISN'T easy, there's a lot I've had to figure out, and that's part of the challenge and joy of it. The cadence and torque sensor is a little fussy, and it's taken me about six months to find the sweet spot, but I think I'm almost there.

Tonight, I was in the saddle with a fresh battery and topped-off tire pressure for 12 minutes on the way to a meeting and 18 on the way back, round trip about 8 miles with a total of 500 feet of vertical (mostly on the return). Dear God, on the streets of Los Feliz and East Hollywood? I absolutely do not need a faster bike. That thing just screams. It grips and tracks great on these mean streets, too, though 100% focus is recommended in traffic at nearly 30 MPH on Saturday night.

Sure, something like the Fuel would fill a tiny but important spot between my 47 lb Motobecane and the 42 lb Marin build, but... I'd only hit that spot once every couple of years.

Ray Ray, we'll talk knees at some point. 66 here, and something bad happened to my left knee after my third day of skiing this season... a good day, too, without any serious falls or injuries I was aware of, problems started the next day. Meeting with the doc Monday to go over the X-rays, wish me luck!
 
Mike TPT, I'm not QUITE as paranoid about CF as you are, but... it would always bother me. I don't dump it often, but when I do, it's usually in some weird-ass way, and who knows if the frame is designed for some unlikely impact angle?
@Catalyzt No problem, we all have to find out things on our own! In my case, I outfitted my Trek 9000 mtb back in the early 90's with AeroSpoke rims. Not carbon fiber, per se; but some kind of carbon plastic concoction. One weekend, I had the bike down on our towboat/barge, setting out for a ride. Leaned the bike on the barge's house and went to take care of some business. As I just walked away, a little gust of wind blew the bike over, onto the main deck; but not before the front AeroSpoke wheel hit a large shackle that was welded onto the steel deck. Instant little pieces strewn about the deck and I was out over 300 dollars in 1996 money. LOL.

I seem to recall over in the German Pedelec forums that just a few years ago, Haibike was dealing with alot of irate owners of their brand new Carbon Fiber framed All Mountain series of e-mtb. Seems there was some cracking going on in the area of the rear triangle....

Guess that for an all-out road racer, CF & light weight are very important. For us hackers, going off-road and what not, I wonder if it's more of an ego-trip, or bragging rights at the trail head! But that's just me and my opinion based on what I experienced with lightweight plastics.....
 
The best weight to lose on the bike is that around your middle. Since giving up cars 2008 I have lost 50 lb there. No carbon fiber for me; too many horror stories. Aluminum seems to be robust enough for my riding style. This is my first aluminum frame bike.
With electric drive on the bike, I don't see the point of a lightweight bike. Mine is no harder to steer with 60 lb supplies on the bike than it does empty. That is relative. With tools, tubes & tire, weather gear, water & lumber+chemical+appliance rack my bike is 94 lb without groceries or ag supplies. The motor drove me home into a howling 25-35 mph wind yesterday in 4 hours 22 min for 27 miles. 49.3 v left from 53.7 start voltage. I could have used more throttle to go faster.
I would spend $1000 to get a rear derailleur that actually shifts. I have replaced takeup, shifter, cable housing, cable, chain, under crank tube deflector, nothing makes it shift. With the extra length frame that keeps me from being thrown on my chin, friction is too high for the spring in the shifter to pull the cable backwards, so It won't upshift. Then with me leaving it in a rideable sprocket (4), the cable freezes up where it won't downshift either. I bought a Shimano 8 speed IGH; apparently the only way to attach a cable to it is with a certain thumb shifter like the one that caused a 10 cm cyst to grow over my thumb joint. Those SRAM electronic shifters for road bikes are too weird for cruiser bars and the patented battery strikes me as a money pit. I don't want 11 speed either. I don't want to change the chain 2 or 3 times a year. 8 speed chain lasts 2 1/2 years. The triple front sprocket does give me one choice of speeds. I've bought a 24v 1" actuator and a 48-24 power supply to make a custom electric shifter, but that is about 3 lb of machinery that might short out or rust solid in a rain. No shift in the freezing winter when a LIIon battery is useless.
One thing that money cannot buy, a front fork that does not snap sideways on bumps, sticks, pavement separators. I've talked to some custom frame builders. None would discuss changing the "standard" quick steering fork that the industry has settled on. Police & reviewers love quick steering. My chin hates it, 5 strikes 2008-2018 on 2 MTBs and one cruiser. My mother's 1946 Firestone "safety" bike with 26"x2" tires had no problem with the front fork snapping sideways and throwing me over on my chin. I could do without the 80 lb steel frame and the single speed, but I'd like a bike frame just like that.
 
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I would spend $1000 to get a rear derailleur that actually shifts. I have replaced takeup, shifter, cable housing, cable, chain, under crank tube deflector, nothing makes it shift.
I've never been happy with the shifting performance on any of my bikes. Expensive, or not so much, in many cases , the price of a derailleur is not necessarily proportional to the way it actually shifts. Often, it's the combination of the shifter lever mechanism, cable & housing, and derailleur that adds up to a crappy shift. I've found that cable stretch, compounded by temperature changes, can lead to frequent derailleur adjustments, especially with longer cables. Of course, all this will vary with brand and individual preferences.

Rather than spend big $$ on a super whiz bang derailleur, I decided to try electronic shifting. There are several systems out there, but I've had great luck with this one from Archer:


It works with almost any derailleur, eliminates the mechanical shift lever & cable, and can be powered by the bike battery.

I was skeptical with the ads at first, but due to the 30 day money back guarantee, I decided to give it a try. I converted my first bike 3 years ago, and have since installed them on all my bikes. They take about an hour to install and once set up, I've not had to make a derailleur adjustment since.
 
the front AeroSpoke wheel hit a large shackle that was welded onto the steel deck. Instant little pieces strewn about the deck and I was out over 300 dollars in 1996 money. LOL.
That is terrifying, even if it was over a quarter century ago. I do not have enough faith in technology and product safety to believe we have entirely eliminated issues like these.
I seem to recall over in the German Pedelec forums that just a few years ago, Haibike was dealing with alot of irate owners of their brand new Carbon Fiber framed All Mountain series of e-mtb. Seems there was some cracking going on in the area of the rear triangle....
Yeah, I remember that. I stumbled across those posts when researching cracks on the early versions of the Marin's frame-- they came up in search results by accident. Good reminder.

At the same time, the cracks in the rear stays of the first Marin frame were kind of scary-- aluminum can crack, too, but when it does, the bike is less likely to fall apart under you. And Marin did replace all of the cracked frames, at least the ones I read about, under warranty. No injuries reported.
Guess that for an all-out road racer, CF & light weight are very important. For us hackers, going off-road and what not, I wonder if it's more of an ego-trip, or bragging rights at the trail head! But that's just me and my opinion based on what I experienced with lightweight plastics.....
For many, I'm sure that's true. But I am 6'1" and weigh 150 pounds, and lighter weight does help me control the bike in tight turns and hairpins, and we have plenty where I ride. Short stopping distance is also important to me, because a lot of those curves are blind. All that said, there could be a point of diminishing return... I know on my 23 lb Raleigh Competition when I was about 18, when my medical condition was really active and I weighed about 146 lbs., leaning into a gust of wind as I was riding on the pavement and taking a 90-degree turn from 89th St. onto Madison going North. A gust literally picked me up and move me a few feet south! At least the balance was good-- I just landed at the same angle of lean and kept riding. But that was kinda freaky.
I've never been happy with the shifting performance on any of my bikes. Expensive, or not so much, in many cases , the price of a derailleur is not necessarily proportional to the way it actually shifts. Often, it's the combination of the shifter lever mechanism, cable & housing, and derailleur that adds up to a crappy shift. I've found that cable stretch, compounded by temperature changes, can lead to frequent derailleur adjustments, especially with longer cables. Of course, all this will vary with brand and individual preferences.

Rather than spend big $$ on a super whiz bang derailleur, I decided to try electronic shifting. There are several systems out there, but I've had great luck with this one from Archer:
Also good to remember. Both the Marin and the Moto have rare problems with shifting that sometimes seem to come and go with no reason. I'm now in the habit of riding at least 5 miles before I decide to even try adjusting the cable tension. Some days, the Marin will give me 11 out of 12 gears, and second gear is solid enough, but on other days, I have repeated chain drop in second. Yesterday, the Moto was slipping cogs for the first mile and a half, but then was fine for the second half. It's one of those issues that will either mysteriously disappear, or I'll figure it out in six weeks-- but not today.

The Marin's 12-gear cassette does seem like overkill. What would be fantastic would be 9 cogs with the current 51-to-10 range. The proprietary Deore 12-speed cassette is super annoying-- I wanted to remove one or two gears and use spacers to push the whole cassette outwards to improve the chain line and get a usable first gear. But the damn thing is like a Rubik's cube... I did find one configuration that almost worked as an 11 speed, but 7th and 8th became unusable, they were just a few millimeters too close together.

My aversion to electronic shifting is kind of irrational: I don't want the battery powering anything but the motor. My batteries are pretty small, but I admit, this is a philosophical issue more than a practical one. If electronic shifters had their own rechargeable power supply, I might be tempted.
 
My aversion to electronic shifting is kind of irrational: I don't want the battery powering anything but the motor. My batteries are pretty small, but I admit, this is a philosophical issue more than a practical one. If electronic shifters had their own rechargeable power supply, I might be tempted.
The Archer Gen2 shifter uses an internal rechargeable lithium battery, as does the handlebar control. The adapter to use the bike battery is optional.
 
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