Vado SL 4.0 12-Speed Conversion

[rochrunner]

When I "traded" my '22 Vado SL 5.0 for a NOS '24 Vado SL 4.0 step-thru, I managed to modify it to match most of the features I lost in going from 5.0 to 4.0. I installed a Mastermind TCU and a Redshift ShockStop stem compensated for losing the FutureShock, but the remaining difference in the drivetrains has come to bother me. Looking into it, I can easily manage the shifter, derailleur and cassette changeover to SRAM GX or NX 12-speed components, but I'm not sure what the options are for the chainring.

The 5.0 had the same 44t size but of course it was compatible with a 12-speed chain and had the narrow-wide tooth layout. The crank and chainring on the 4.0 appear to be quite different in the way things are put together and it might be more complex than just changing out the gear. Does anyone have any advice on how to approach this? I just don't have much experience with bottom brackets, cranksets, etc.

 

[mschwett]

When I "traded" my '22 Vado SL 5.0 for a NOS '24 Vado SL 4.0 step-thru, I managed to modify it to match most of the features I lost in going from 5.0 to 4.0. I installed a Mastermind TCU and a Redshift ShockStop stem compensated for losing the FutureShock, but the remaining difference in the drivetrains has come to bother me. Looking into it, I can easily manage the shifter, derailleur and cassette changeover to SRAM GX or NX 12-speed components, but I'm not sure what the options are for the chainring.

The 5.0 had the same 44t size but of course it was compatible with a 12-speed chain and had the narrow-wide tooth layout. The crank and chainring on the 4.0 appear to be quite different in the way things are put together and it might be more complex than just changing out the gear. Does anyone have any advice on how to approach this? I just don't have much experience with bottom brackets, cranksets, etc.

hmmm got a photo? I thought it was a standard 110x4 chainring. the spiders and crank are obviously unique to the SL but I’ve never seen one with a custom chainring. they are just slightly fiddlier to attach depending on the bolt configuration.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

110x4 chainring

110 BCD 5 bolt if it were a road bike. It is a standard 104 BCD, 4 bolt for Vado SL Gen 1. The question was whether a 11-speed chainring could be used for a 12-speed chain... @Allan47.7339?

Doug, I know 12-speed chainrings fit 11 and 10-speed chains. Not sure what chainring is on your SL. Could you just remove the chain from your chainring and try fitting a section of a 12-speed chain on the ring? Any bike mechanic can do it for you if you don't have got the proper chain yet.

 

[Base]

The Vado SL gen 1 has a 4 arm 104BCD chainring. So if you are looking at a new chainring you can use those terms to find a correct part at your local (E)shop.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

There are issues with trying to use the stock 104BCD chainring with the 12 speed Eagle GX. It tends to throw the chain off the chainring when shifting into the largest sprockets on the cassette. You need to shop for a 44T 104BCD with specific narrow-wide tooth configuration. I upgraded my SL 5.0 to a 10-52 Eagle GX cassette and chain and a Wolftooth 46T chain ring, but that was a 110BCD not 104BCD. Wolftooth only goes up to 40T in 104BCD. Specialized does not make a suitable 12 spd 104BCD chainring for SL 4.0 AFAIK. Try Amazon and Google with a search on "12-spd 104BCD 44T chainring". I found at least one possibly suitable ring for $21.99 in my search.

 

[rochrunner]

There are issues with trying to use the stock 104BCD chainring with the 12 speed Eagle GX. It tends to throw the chain off the chainring when shifting into the largest sprockets on the cassette. You need to shop for a 44T 104BCD with specific narrow-wide tooth configuration. I upgraded my SL 5.0 to a 10-52 Eagle GX cassette and chain and a Wolftooth 46T chain ring, but that was a 110BCD not 104BCD. Wolftooth only goes up to 40T in 104BCD. Specialized does not make a suitable 12 spd 104BCD chainring for SL 4.0 AFAIK. Try Amazon and Google with a search on "12-spd 104BCD 44T chainring". I found at least one possibly suitable ring for $21.99 in my search.

Thanks. Good info.

 

[rochrunner]

hmmm got a photo? I thought it was a standard 110x4 chainring. the spiders and crank are obviously unique to the SL but I’ve never seen one with a custom chainring. they are just slightly fiddlier to attach depending on the bolt configuration.

I guess I wasn't clear. My issue is that I don't know anything about how the crank assembly goes together on these bikes. The last time I worked in that area was 20 years ago when I replaced the 9-speed Sora components on my road bike to a full 105 10-spd groupset. In that case, if I wanted to change the chainrings, I could take the left-side crank arm off, pull the crank axle assembly out the right side, and it was right there in my hand. On the SLs, however, the chainring is not attached mechanically to the pedal crank and I don't have a clear picture of exactly what's there and what I'd have to pull off in addition to the pedal assembly. I assume there must be some sort of sprag clutch or equivalent involved that lets the crank drive the chainring in the forward direction but "freewheel" when pedaled in reverse. I just need to know how to get access to the chainring bolts.

 

[rochrunner]

110 BCD 5 bolt if it were a road bike. It is a standard 104 BCD, 4 bolt for Vado SL Gen 1. The question was whether a 11-speed chainring could be used for a 12-speed chain... @Allan47.7339?

Doug, I know 12-speed chainrings fit 11 and 10-speed chains. Not sure what chainring is on your SL. Could you just remove the chain from your chainring and try fitting a section of a 12-speed chain on the ring? Any bike mechanic can do it for you if you don't have got the proper chain yet.

You may have hit on the solution for me. While searching for chainrings with the proper specs, this site turned up. It looks like what came on my bike and indeed my bike is on the list of bikes equipped with it. I took a closer look at mine and it indeed has the narrow-wide teeth. So I'll just stick with what's already on the bike unless something doesn't work after I've done the rest of the conversion.

 

[mschwett]

I guess I wasn't clear. My issue is that I don't know anything about how the crank assembly goes together on these bikes. The last time I worked in that area was 20 years ago when I replaced the 9-speed Sora components on my road bike to a full 105 10-spd groupset. In that case, if I wanted to change the chainrings, I could take the left-side crank arm off, pull the crank axle assembly out the right side, and it was right there in my hand. On the SLs, however, the chainring is not attached mechanically to the pedal crank and I don't have a clear picture of exactly what's there and what I'd have to pull off in addition to the pedal assembly. I assume there must be some sort of sprag clutch or equivalent involved that lets the crank drive the chainring in the forward direction but "freewheel" when pedaled in reverse. I just need to know how to get access to the chainring bolts.

ahhh, yeah you don’t need to take the cranks off. the clutch mechanism for the SL motor is essentially inside the motor, and the spider for the chainring is attached to one side of it and the crank to the other. you remove the chain guard / pant leg guard and access the bolts from the “inside” (non drive side) through or below the frame. obviously you have to turn the cranks a few times to get to all four.

are the bolts not visible when looking at the non-drive side of the chainring?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Doug, I know everything about replacing chainrings on Vados but am almost sure yours is 12-speed compatible

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Stefan, if you are talking to me it is 12 speed compatible because I had a Vado SL 5.0 on a 110BCD (5-bolt). I upgraded because I wanted a 46T instead of 44T. However, the older Vado SL 4.0's around here have had shifting issues with 12 speed and their 44T 104BCD (originally 10 or 11 speed).

 

[rochrunner]

Doug, I know everything about replacing chainrings on Vados but am almost sure yours is 12-speed compatible

It's the same part that they put on the latest 12-speed Vado SL 2 6.0s. I'm good.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan, if you are talking to me it is 12i speed compatible because I had a Vado SL 5.0 on a 110BCD (5-bolt). I upgraded because I wanted a 46T instead of 44T. However, the older Vado SL 4.0's around here have had shifting issues with 12 speed and their 44T 104BCD (originally 10 or 11 speed).

No, I was talking to @rochrunner (we know each other from Strava) Thank you for your input!

I started replacing Vado 6.0 and Vado SL 4.0 chainrings early during my ownership for reasons such as high and constant cadence, the climbing capability or riding in rough terrain. I've standardised on Garbaruk 104 BCD chainrings (it is a 32T on my Vado SL 12s and a 38T on Vado 6.0 11s now). I've found the 44T was only good for rides on the flat but I'm not suggesting to Roch to make any changes to his e-bike.

For the general information:
There's a 104 BCD threaded spider on the motor. A Praxis chainring is conveniently mounted on the spider with four special threaded bolts. Then, there is a plastic chainguard installed on the chainring with four small screws (from the inside). This proprietary solution allows for convenient chainring installation using an Allen wrench only from the outside (this system doesn't need any nut for the bolt as the chainring holes and the bolts are both threaded).

If anyone wants to replace the chainring with another type, this is the procedure:

First, one needs to buy a replacement 104 BCD round Garbaruk or Wolftooth or Deckas chainring with the desired count of teeth. Such a chainring can be usually bought as a kit with five MTB chainring bolts (these come with a nut, and one bolt is a spare here). An additional tool, a simple but special wrench to hold the nut in place is necessary, too.

1. Remove the chain
2. Remove the drive-side pedal
3. Remove the 4 small screws and get rid of the chainguard
4. Using an Allen key, remove the 4 Praxis bolts and then remove the original chainring
5. Place the new chainring behind the spider and insert the nut into one of the spider holes. Hold the nut in place with the special wrench
6. Insert the chainring bolt from the outside and fasten it delicately with the Allen key
7. Repeat for the remaining 3 bolts
8. Tighten to 5 Nm
9. Reinstall the pedal
10. Adjust the length of the chain and place the chain onto the new chainring.

I'm not giving more details now. The procedure is not simple when done for the first time, especially as the SL motor cover makes the access to the chainring-bolt-nut difficult. It is very simple with some practice though.

I wrote this to illustrate the fact @rochrunner is indeed good with the fact he doesn't need to do anything and can even retain the chainguard!

 

[rochrunner]

I wrote this to illustrate the fact @rochrunner is indeed good with the fact he doesn't need to do anything and can even retain the chainguard!

Thanks, @Stefan Mikes. Everything around here is flat so no problem sticking with the 44t but I'll probably remove the chainguard anyway -- not a fan of the look and it makes it harder to clean the chainring.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The 32T looks ridiculous, innit I chose it for a constant cadence in the five top gears, not for anything else

The picture above was taken when I had 11 speeds. Then I converted the thing to 12s, Shimano Di2 XTR.

@rochrunner: to get the 12 speed, you need to install a SRAM xD freehub. Is it doable with your rear hub?

 

[rochrunner]

@rochrunner: to get the 12 speed, you need to install a SRAM xD freehub. Is it doable with your rear hub?

No problem. The NX Eagle 11-50 cassette goes on a standard Shimano HG hub; the GX cassette uses the SRAM xD and is available with a 10-tooth outer gear. Other than that the groupsets are very similar and I could use the GX derailleur and/or shifter with the NX cassette, but for my purposes why spend the extra money?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thank you for this useful information!

 

[Douglas Ruby]

No problem. The NX Eagle 11-50 cassette goes on a standard Shimano HG hub; the GX cassette uses the SRAM xD and is available with a 10-tooth outer gear. Other than that the groupsets are very similar and I could use the GX derailleur and/or shifter with the NX cassette, but for my purposes why spend the extra money?

I was able to replace the HG freehub on my stock Vado SL 5.0 rear wheel with an XD freehub so that I could upgrade to a 10-52 GX cassette instead of the stock 11-50 NX Cassette. I got the part from my local Specialized dealer for around $65.00-ish and changed it myself in about 20 minutes.