I just checked: the solar panels (similar spec) for our van are currently a smidge higher in cost than when we bought ours 3 years ago. Could be a tariff thing, but that is reality. LiFePO4 batteries are currently on sale for the same price I paid, also 3 years ago.
The transition
- Thread starter Art Deco
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Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
All of which make for such a wonderful view. I don't see any of those as being more intrinsically scenic than solar panels.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
They are going down on an exponential curve, not linearly. The graph makes it look approximately linear but because the axis is logarithmic that makes it exponential.
And it is "just a projection" based on sixty years of historic data. SMRs do not have any data to base their costs on so anyone advocating for them is basically making the numbers up as they go along. I'd take a "mere" projection over made up numbers any day of the week.
Yes, many things impact that cost curve. But the long-term trends are undeniable and you can't pretend they do not exist.
Just look at the graph and understand what it means.
Never said they were scenic, just not offensive. Typical travel for us, we don't see any of them up close and personal since we don't spend much time in the populated areas they tend to be. Can see a nuclear facility across the bay from one of the cabins we rent; not bad at all several miles away. Actually adds interest to the horizon. Even the few we pass about 1/2 mile away are kinda cool to see.
I'd encourage other cities to get covered in solar panels. Our airport is slowly adding solar canopies in the parking lot; that's fine, it's already concrete, not fields.
It looks like people like/dislike different things; that's ok. My preference when traveling is green, not shiny black.
Chargeride
Well-Known Member
But still fossil is rising and the worlds solar and turbine produces 4% of our energy very expensively and erratically.
scrambler
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- USA
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- Bay Area, CA
I can't help but wondering what part of nonrenewable versus renewable some people do not seem to get.
Oil resources are limited and non renewable at human life scale, and it happens to be the only usable resource for a number of critical materials our civilisation would have a very difficult time living without.
Yet many keep thinking we should just keep burning it for energy, and ignore renewable energy resources, so that when it runs out not only will we be screwed on the energy side, but we will have a second disaster with critical materials shortage.
Really?
Oil resources are limited and non renewable at human life scale, and it happens to be the only usable resource for a number of critical materials our civilisation would have a very difficult time living without.
Yet many keep thinking we should just keep burning it for energy, and ignore renewable energy resources, so that when it runs out not only will we be screwed on the energy side, but we will have a second disaster with critical materials shortage.
Really?
227ish years in US. Thus the importance of importing from other regions now and developing export rules for the future.
PedalUma
Well-Known Member
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- USA
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- Petaluma, CA
I heard an economist explain it this way. Imagine if you had a room filled waist high with shelled peanuts. You could climb in the window anytime and eat as many as you want. The shells stay in the room. Eventually there would be some still there but they would become harder to find. It also happened with whaling. New Englanders were hunting 80,000 per year, either side of 1850. It will happen with oil and with global warming.
scrambler
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- USA
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- Bay Area, CA
Not the world consensus, but beside the point.
We need to stop destroying this important resource by using it for energy, and instead preserve it for its other uses by getting our energy needs filled by renewables....
DaveMatthews
Dave's not here. Cheating since 2018
- Region
- Canada
I'd rather live near solar fields or wind farms than a freakin' data centre...
I choose to not live "near" any of them.
DaveMatthews
Dave's not here. Cheating since 2018
- Region
- Canada
Sadly, when it comes to data centres, the choice is often not yours.
The land "near" me would be more $ than the mega data center folks would want to spend. They want big farm field land.
Chargeride
Well-Known Member
Im not saying we should, Im saying we are, with no change in sight.
Its only a matter of time before someone looks at the facts and starts telling people not to live in colder climates and to stop driving about, theyve already started on us for slayvurhe and the industrial revolution.
I think were up to about 70 trillion so far in liabilities and they will never stop.
India 45 trillion
Climate 4 trillion
Slavure 18 trillion
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DaveMatthews
Dave's not here. Cheating since 2018
- Region
- Canada
And they want all the water, and all the electrical power. But I guess it's OK as long as it ruins somebody else's property value and quality of life, right?
I'm pretty sure I've indicated more than once I disagree with AI data centers being built anywhere; not an AI fanboy for general population use. The dumbing down of civilization. There are good uses (i.e., medical); too many potential abuses.
Chargeride
Well-Known Member
The data centres are mostly to process the billions of petabytes of data they are stealing off us night and day.
5G was built from the ground up to steal data, its main function is to stream from every car, every street corner, every house, every camera, every street microphone, every phone, every boat, plane, bus, train, bus stop, waiting room, hospital, every goddam place more than two people meet.
Can you imagine what they will do with it, do you ever think what plans they will have for humanity, when they can stream your thoughts they will.
Who will they be?
Are they vying to be they?
Are we already the end game of a billion years of it.
5G was built from the ground up to steal data, its main function is to stream from every car, every street corner, every house, every camera, every street microphone, every phone, every boat, plane, bus, train, bus stop, waiting room, hospital, every goddam place more than two people meet.
Can you imagine what they will do with it, do you ever think what plans they will have for humanity, when they can stream your thoughts they will.
Who will they be?
Are they vying to be they?
Are we already the end game of a billion years of it.
RunForTheHills
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
They have also cornered the market on DRAM and SSD storage. 64Gb of DDR5 DRAM costs over $1000 right now.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
The 8kw of solar panels on my roof cost me $16k in 2016. They were heavily discounted and listed for about $33k online (the story was they were part of a much larger project for a marijuana farm and they turned out to not need as many panels as they bought). Today I can find similar panels for between $0.40 per watt, so the same array could be built out for $3200 worth of panels.
Cool. Comparing 10 year price difference to 3 year ago price difference. Perhaps prices have leveled off?
Your $16k looks like a poor investment (at least in our case). Took a quick look at my annualized return over the last 3 years (longest I can do on the app) 15.9%. $16k @15.9% is $2544. My annual combined elec and gas bill is less than $2400 ($191 this month (about as bad as it gets)). I win by not installing panels. Net metering is use it or lose it here from what my neighbor said.