Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
Will check available fields when I'm back with the bike.
Specialized Turbo Vado SL: An Incredible E-Bike (User Club)
- Thread starter Stefan Mikes
- Start date
Cycologist
Member
- Region
- USA
Unfortunately, I don't have the Mastermind, but my Garmin GPS does something similar. It will track the ride and charge level and estimate miles remaining.
I just do it in my head. At the start of my ride, I pass a few flagpoles and get a read on wind speed and direction. I take a guess as to when I should turn back based on battery level remaining with a little extra for safety. So far, so good.
I just do it in my head. At the start of my ride, I pass a few flagpoles and get a read on wind speed and direction. I take a guess as to when I should turn back based on battery level remaining with a little extra for safety. So far, so good.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
I don't have Mastermind either
I assess the range based on my experience.
Have you tried Smart Control in the App?
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Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
The Specialized app screen shown while recording a ride on my SL 1 5.0 EQ:
All 6 data fields are programmable. Here are the options:
Nothing explicitly about range. In a few days, I'll check the bike's TCU.
All 6 data fields are programmable. Here are the options:
Nothing explicitly about range. In a few days, I'll check the bike's TCU.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
App updated? E-bike updated?
Base
Bike nerd
- Region
- Europe
- City
- in the exact center of the Netherlands
the manual is also not that clear on the mastermind tcu
speed, odometer, battery charge level, mode, heart rate, and more.
100
You are able to set up the units, date and time, view legal information, and
pair sensors manually on the MasterMind TCU.
90
80
70
60
50
40
30
20
10
„ To access the settings menu, press and hold the (+) and (-) buttons on
„ To navigate the settings, use the remote (+) and (-) buttons to scroll up
„ Long-press the (+) button (2 sec) to select an option and long-press the
2
2
2
the remote for two seconds.
and down.
(-) button (2 sec) to go back.
To fully customize the setup of the MasterMind TCU, pair your
bicycle to the Specialized app and adjust your preferred settings
in the app
Currently not near the full power Vado of my partner so cannot check how this would look lie in the app.
8.7. CUSTOMIZING PAGES ON THE MASTERMIND TCU
The MasterMind TCU has customizable screens that show options such asspeed, odometer, battery charge level, mode, heart rate, and more.
100
You are able to set up the units, date and time, view legal information, and
pair sensors manually on the MasterMind TCU.
90
80
70
60
50
40
30
20
10
„ To access the settings menu, press and hold the (+) and (-) buttons on
„ To navigate the settings, use the remote (+) and (-) buttons to scroll up
„ Long-press the (+) button (2 sec) to select an option and long-press the
2
2
2
the remote for two seconds.
and down.
(-) button (2 sec) to go back.
To fully customize the setup of the MasterMind TCU, pair your
bicycle to the Specialized app and adjust your preferred settings
in the app
Currently not near the full power Vado of my partner so cannot check how this would look lie in the app.
Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
App's up to date, and the bike firmware was updated 2-3 months ago.
BEC111
Well-Known Member
Now for something sort of different. (Apologies to John Cleese.)
I had a nice ride in the mist the other day. Not rain, just mist. Got home, wiped the bike down with a towel and racked it in my garage. I went down yesterday to clean and lube the chain. I was running the chain through the Park Tools Chain Scrubber when suddenly I couldn’t turn the cranks. It just locked up.
I took the bike of the stand and did a quick ride of about fifty yards And it was really hard to turn the pedals. Whether the motor was powered on or not. I put the bike back on the stand and finished lubing the chain. The cranks still sticking.
Now the complicated part. The shop where I’d bough the bike had been purchased by Trek. The alternative Specialized dealer I was using dropped the line. (Or Specialized dropped them?) I spent some time identifying local Specialized dealers and finding one that could deal with the motor. Not all of them do E-bikes. I also would rather not drive an hour or more to get the bike fixed.
I’ve found one and will bringing the bike in today. It will be interesting. I will post more when I know more.
I had a nice ride in the mist the other day. Not rain, just mist. Got home, wiped the bike down with a towel and racked it in my garage. I went down yesterday to clean and lube the chain. I was running the chain through the Park Tools Chain Scrubber when suddenly I couldn’t turn the cranks. It just locked up.
I took the bike of the stand and did a quick ride of about fifty yards And it was really hard to turn the pedals. Whether the motor was powered on or not. I put the bike back on the stand and finished lubing the chain. The cranks still sticking.
Now the complicated part. The shop where I’d bough the bike had been purchased by Trek. The alternative Specialized dealer I was using dropped the line. (Or Specialized dropped them?) I spent some time identifying local Specialized dealers and finding one that could deal with the motor. Not all of them do E-bikes. I also would rather not drive an hour or more to get the bike fixed.
I’ve found one and will bringing the bike in today. It will be interesting. I will post more when I know more.
Calcoaster
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
You sure it’s not a rear brake issue or a chain/ gear issue? Take the rear wheel off and you’ll isolate the motor to test it.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Please check the derailleur pulleys! These could be broken or stuck!
Was in a similar position not a long time ago. The tension pulley was broken and impeding the chain movement.
BEC111
Well-Known Member
Stefan, I wish you’d replied two hours sooner.
It would have saved me the effort of mounting my hitch rack and the bike onto it and driving to the LBS. That was what the mechanic discovered. They’re going to check the derailleur as it appears to be a bit wobbly but otherwise it’s no big deal.Saved me a bunch of money of course.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
I was on a ride, sorry!Stefan, I wish you’d replied two hours sooner.
Saved me a bunch of money of course.
--------------
Some time ago I was about to return home "on the wheels" from my favourite META Bar on Vado 6.0. As I pedalled a short distance from Specialized Warsaw to META, I wanted to do it in the OFF mode to save some battery. Normally, I could have done it but not that time. Needless to say, I was afraid the motor got stuck. A closer inspection the next morning revealed the chain was stuck between the derailleur cage and the broken pulley...
When you described your own experience, it rang a bell... Glad to hear your issue was resolved!
BEC111
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Stefan.
Now I have to wait to hear from the shop to confirm our judgement. I also learned a lesson: don’t try to identify a problem with darkly colored components in poor lighting. When the bile was put on the stand in the well lit bike shop the truth was easy to see.
BEC111
Well-Known Member
I just picked up the bike today and all is well. The rear derailleur pulleys should optionally be replaced but the dealer didn’t have them is stock. I’ll order them and install them myself when I confirm the correct model as the original was replaced two years ago.
I also have to sandpaper the brake pads and the rotors as the pads are glazed and the rotors need to be cleaned up. It’s a hobby after all which means it occupies time and cost money.
Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
That's what I keep telling my wife.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Meanwhile, I got completely rid of the tubeless system from my Fearless. The system is certainly good if it is installed and maintained by a professional but I admit I'm too stupid to do it myself. TPU inner tubes (even if expensive) are lightweight and reparable. (I would use regular butyl inner tubes if I had to). I, however, greatly appreciate the properties of tubeless ready foldable tyres! My new Rhombus Pros just rock!
The Rhombus Pro tyres are visible here. Besides, it is how we handle milk in the EU (but not the UK!) UHT milk doesn't need to be refrigerated in the storage, only after opening. Here, whole milk from the most popular brand of Poland.
The Rhombus Pro tyres are visible here. Besides, it is how we handle milk in the EU (but not the UK!) UHT milk doesn't need to be refrigerated in the storage, only after opening. Here, whole milk from the most popular brand of Poland.
Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
The promised follow-up on this post, confirming that my SL 1 5.0 can indeed display Estimated Range and Range Trend on its Mastermind TCU — even though the app's real-time ride recording screen cannot:
The TCU display is programmed from the app while actively connected to the bike. Just added this 3rd TCU page as a test to see how these range figures work.
Normally prefer to toggle back and forth between just these 2 TCU pages. The upper is the startup page, but the lower gets 90% of the saddle time. A 3rd page would have to be extraordinarily useful in the saddle to earn its keep.
Below are all the data items available to display on the TCU — many more than on the app's real-time riding screen:
ADDENDUM: The app interface for TCU page management is quick and easy enough that you could whip up an extra page or two for some special occasion and then delete them afterward to keep the number of TCU-related button presses to a minimum in daily riding.
The TCU display is programmed from the app while actively connected to the bike. Just added this 3rd TCU page as a test to see how these range figures work.
Normally prefer to toggle back and forth between just these 2 TCU pages. The upper is the startup page, but the lower gets 90% of the saddle time. A 3rd page would have to be extraordinarily useful in the saddle to earn its keep.
Below are all the data items available to display on the TCU — many more than on the app's real-time riding screen:
ADDENDUM: The app interface for TCU page management is quick and easy enough that you could whip up an extra page or two for some special occasion and then delete them afterward to keep the number of TCU-related button presses to a minimum in daily riding.
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Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Motor power mechanic! Now, it is possible to truly calculate the motor efficiency by also using Motor power electric!
Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
Tested the range info now available from my TCU on a vigorous 20 mi ride with 1200 ft of gain.
Rode mostly in SPORT (60/60) in full Carrot Effect with rider power generally in the 150-250W range when actively pedaling. Coasted down most hills and rode in OFF 25% of the time. All told, this took 38% of my 320 Wh battery at an average rate of 1.9% or 4.6 Wh per mile.
Having started the ride with 63% battery, this left 25% at the end.
Final TCU readout. All of the climbing occurred in the first 16.4 mi at an average of 73 ft/mi, mostly in SPORT. Max grade was 18-20%. This climbing segment drove estimated range (ER) down to 10 mi. The range trend was -1 or -2 arrows through most of it.
But pedaling the remaining 3.6 mi in OFF drove ER back up to the 29 mi shown above. The range trend was +2 arrows the whole time.
Based on this first experience, I'm provisionally interpreting an estimated range of X to mean only that I have enough battery to keep doing what I've just been doing for another X mi.
So many questions!
Q1. At what state of charge does ER go to zero? Guessing 5% or 10%.
Q2. How far back in distance or time does the ER calculation look to predict future battery consumption? The last mile? The last 5 minutes?
Q3. The calculation certainly tracks electrical power sent to the motor. What else? Does it also look at rider effort over its moving window? As in, "What a slacker! Better reduce ER accordingly."
Rode mostly in SPORT (60/60) in full Carrot Effect with rider power generally in the 150-250W range when actively pedaling. Coasted down most hills and rode in OFF 25% of the time. All told, this took 38% of my 320 Wh battery at an average rate of 1.9% or 4.6 Wh per mile.
Having started the ride with 63% battery, this left 25% at the end.
Final TCU readout. All of the climbing occurred in the first 16.4 mi at an average of 73 ft/mi, mostly in SPORT. Max grade was 18-20%. This climbing segment drove estimated range (ER) down to 10 mi. The range trend was -1 or -2 arrows through most of it.
But pedaling the remaining 3.6 mi in OFF drove ER back up to the 29 mi shown above. The range trend was +2 arrows the whole time.
Based on this first experience, I'm provisionally interpreting an estimated range of X to mean only that I have enough battery to keep doing what I've just been doing for another X mi.
So many questions!
Q1. At what state of charge does ER go to zero? Guessing 5% or 10%.
Q2. How far back in distance or time does the ER calculation look to predict future battery consumption? The last mile? The last 5 minutes?
Q3. The calculation certainly tracks electrical power sent to the motor. What else? Does it also look at rider effort over its moving window? As in, "What a slacker! Better reduce ER accordingly."
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Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Now, we will have an interesting subject for a while! I'm sure you Jeremy will find out yourself and tell us!
---------------
I was trying to figure our how the ER was calculated based on my past use of BLEvo (which was able to calculate ER pretty accurately), the ER calculated by my Giant Trance E+ and by observing Smart Range on my Garmin Edge connected to the big Vado. My feeling is any Range calculation tool only looks at these parameters:
The Vado SL "brain" is calculating ER and RT all the time as you ride (regardless you have those parameters on your display or not). Meaning, the e-bike is constantly learning. The calculations are done frequently. (How often? I don't know! If you know anything about the numerical methods to calculate integrals, you also know the shorter the integration step the more accurate the calculation is).
Let's assume your last calculated BCFp was 4.60 Wh/mi (stored in the system memory). Your battery is freshly charged and the RBC is 320 Wh. The system has no idea of the external conditions when you turn the e-bike on. So, the ER = 320 Wh / 4.60 Wh/mi = 69 miles. Remember, it is just an initial estimate. Let us assume you ride effortlessly with a tailwind on the flat in the ECO mode. The system can see that BCFc is lower than BCFp hence the Range Trend is positive.
Now -- and it is very important -- the new BCFp is an integral of the last BCFp and the newly measured BCFc! For instance, your new actual BCFc is constant and it is 3.90 Wh/mi. The value of BCFp changes: 4.60... 4.59... 4.58... and so on until it reaches 3.90, which might take a mile or so. But meanwhile the RBC dropped to 320 - 4.60 = 315.4 Wh, so ER = 315.4 / 3.90 = 80.87 mi. Estimated Range has increased over the mile!
I mentioned integration done during the calculations. It is absolutely necessary! Fancy you go OFF. The BCFc = 0. If not the integration, your ER would immediately become infinity! However, as the calculation uses integrals, your ER will slowly grow grow and grow, and it might eventually become --- after the day spent only on pedal power. The same happens when you are coasting down the hill!
So you had an easy ride with the BCFp and BCFc stabilized at 3.90 Wh/mi. Now, you encounter a hill and pedal harder (forcing the motor to deliver more power and draw more from the battery). You might go SPORT or TURBO, Say the BCFc goes up to 9.0 Wh/mi. As BCFc - BCFp is positive, the Range Trend becomes negative! Now, the integrated value of BCFp goes up: 3.90...3.91...3.92...(...)...9.0. Now, let's say the RBC is only 270 Wh. Slowly, very slowly the ER will drop to 270 / 9.0 = 30 mi. Note: It was 80 before but it is now only 30 miles estimated remaining range.
Obviously, as you coast while descending, and the BCFc = 0, integrating the BCFp will gradually increase ER.
Hit a headwind! The same happens: to maintain the speed, you need to use more motor power: negative RT and gradual decrease in ER.
What happens when you're slacking? If you keep the same assistance then the ER will increase! Less leg power = slower speed = less resistance = less motor power demand = lower BCFc = positive RT = higher ER! However, go TURBO to increase the speed and the ER will drop off the cliff
---------------
I absolutely don't know what is the battery minimum % for the Range calculation. I'm afraid it is 0%, as the designers seem not to think of anything outside the maths
P.S. Just some extra information: Range Trend is a differential while Estimated Range is an integral. Mathematics, Automation and Control!
---------------
I was trying to figure our how the ER was calculated based on my past use of BLEvo (which was able to calculate ER pretty accurately), the ER calculated by my Giant Trance E+ and by observing Smart Range on my Garmin Edge connected to the big Vado. My feeling is any Range calculation tool only looks at these parameters:
- Current remaining battery charge RBC (Wh)
- Current battery consumption factor BCFc (Wh/distance unit)
- Previous value of BCF, that is, BCFp
The Vado SL "brain" is calculating ER and RT all the time as you ride (regardless you have those parameters on your display or not). Meaning, the e-bike is constantly learning. The calculations are done frequently. (How often? I don't know! If you know anything about the numerical methods to calculate integrals, you also know the shorter the integration step the more accurate the calculation is).
Let's assume your last calculated BCFp was 4.60 Wh/mi (stored in the system memory). Your battery is freshly charged and the RBC is 320 Wh. The system has no idea of the external conditions when you turn the e-bike on. So, the ER = 320 Wh / 4.60 Wh/mi = 69 miles. Remember, it is just an initial estimate. Let us assume you ride effortlessly with a tailwind on the flat in the ECO mode. The system can see that BCFc is lower than BCFp hence the Range Trend is positive.
Now -- and it is very important -- the new BCFp is an integral of the last BCFp and the newly measured BCFc! For instance, your new actual BCFc is constant and it is 3.90 Wh/mi. The value of BCFp changes: 4.60... 4.59... 4.58... and so on until it reaches 3.90, which might take a mile or so. But meanwhile the RBC dropped to 320 - 4.60 = 315.4 Wh, so ER = 315.4 / 3.90 = 80.87 mi. Estimated Range has increased over the mile!
I mentioned integration done during the calculations. It is absolutely necessary! Fancy you go OFF. The BCFc = 0. If not the integration, your ER would immediately become infinity! However, as the calculation uses integrals, your ER will slowly grow grow and grow, and it might eventually become --- after the day spent only on pedal power. The same happens when you are coasting down the hill!
So you had an easy ride with the BCFp and BCFc stabilized at 3.90 Wh/mi. Now, you encounter a hill and pedal harder (forcing the motor to deliver more power and draw more from the battery). You might go SPORT or TURBO, Say the BCFc goes up to 9.0 Wh/mi. As BCFc - BCFp is positive, the Range Trend becomes negative! Now, the integrated value of BCFp goes up: 3.90...3.91...3.92...(...)...9.0. Now, let's say the RBC is only 270 Wh. Slowly, very slowly the ER will drop to 270 / 9.0 = 30 mi. Note: It was 80 before but it is now only 30 miles estimated remaining range.
Obviously, as you coast while descending, and the BCFc = 0, integrating the BCFp will gradually increase ER.
Hit a headwind! The same happens: to maintain the speed, you need to use more motor power: negative RT and gradual decrease in ER.
What happens when you're slacking? If you keep the same assistance then the ER will increase! Less leg power = slower speed = less resistance = less motor power demand = lower BCFc = positive RT = higher ER! However, go TURBO to increase the speed and the ER will drop off the cliff
---------------
I absolutely don't know what is the battery minimum % for the Range calculation. I'm afraid it is 0%, as the designers seem not to think of anything outside the maths
P.S. Just some extra information: Range Trend is a differential while Estimated Range is an integral. Mathematics, Automation and Control!
Last edited:
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