Specialized Turbo Vado/Como/Tero/Tero X User Club

[ronaan]

Thank you for your valid points of consideration Stefan (as always).

Do I "need" the rear damper. I guess we all know the answer. But as it currently is, the price difference between the X 5.0 and the "regular" 5.0 is almost nonexistant (both under 4k€), so ... might as well get the fully, even if that means losing 20Nm. The "X" has slightly better components here and there as well it seems (brakes, fork) - not that I'd notice a difference probably. And about the bike weight ... when I still actively rode motorcycles I used to say "weight tuning starts at the driver" and believe me I have a lot of potential ;-)

I like the Garmin radar the normal Tero brings, just like the Vado.

I've seen the 70Nm vs 90Nm and it's a shame, but the X 6.0 is hard to find in Germany, and almost never at a discount. €6.200 is quite a bit of money, when you can get the X 5.0 for €4k. Yes it has excellent parts but ... pricey. I'm in no hurry though so I might just stumble upon one. It's not looking like they keep the line alive currently...

Almost completely ruled out the Vado IGH by now, I'm just not sure the whole automatic thing is for me.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

even if that means losing 20Nm.

I've seen the 70Nm vs 90Nm and it's a shame

It is not as bad as you think. The 70 vs 90 Nm is just a marketing talk. My calculation proves the 2.0 motor is closer to 75 Nm... Not a bad choice at all! (for me it is 470 vs 565 W peak power. My older Vado 6.0 can produce 520 W or 85 Nm).

I could demo ride the Tero X 4.0. A nice ride indeed. The e-bike felt like a fast tank The only no-go for me would be the weight. If I were to choose a single e-bike right now it would be the Vado SL 2 6.0 Carbon non-EQ. Sounds crazy, aye?

 

[ronaan]

I did look at the Vado SL2 (aluminium eq) as I really love the SL but I guess those days are over for me.

Looks like a test ride is in order.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I did look at the Vado SL2 (aluminium eq) as I really love the SL but I guess those days are over for me.

Looks like a test ride is in order.

Before taking a big chance on my SL 1, I wasn't at all sure that I had the legs to ride it over local hills with tolerable effort. Turned out to be a non-issue for now, but at 76, that day is coming. Hope I'll be able to afford a fallback option as nice as the SL 2 when it does.

 

[BravoRomeo]

I‘m also kind of wary of the whole automatic enviolo thing. I really wanted a belt for a while but Rohloff bikes cost a fortune so …

I would have tried a belt-drive myself, but couldn't resist the sale price on the Vado 4.0 with traditional drivetrain. I do a hot-waxed chain anyway which eliminates the oily mess normally associated with chain drive. Sometime I'm sure I'll try an Enviolo automatic. Would be interesting to feel how it works (or doesn't) for me.

Enough said. Would anyone like to comment on the „no assist“ behaviour? Can you go over the assist shutoff (or just switch off to save battery) or is that just a bad idea with a 25-27kg bike?

I rode my Vado 4.0 along the river paths in Austin, TX today. Most of that was with the motor off and me putting in 50-200 watts depending on grades. I was riding for pleasure and exercise today. On the flats the bike rolls just as easily as any other. Climbing hills you might notice the extra weight, but for me, total rider + bike it's 9% heavier than the SL. Mainly I've noticed the 1x gear-set is pretty tall and doesn't get low enough to easily climb moderate hills without assist. It's an e-bike though, so you use the assist when and where it's helpful.

Yes, at least on my US bike, you can pedal and coast as fast as you want, even after the motor stops assisting (28 MPH on mine). I can't imagine the motor would have a way of preventing that. They'd have to add an internal brake or regen to limit rider output, I'd think.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I rode my Vado 4.0 along the river paths in Austin, TX today. Most of that was with the motor off and me putting in 50-200 watts depending on grades. I was riding for pleasure and exercise today. On the flats the bike rolls just as easily as any other. Climbing hills you might notice the extra weight, but for me, total rider + bike it's 9% heavier than the SL. Mainly I've noticed the 1x gear-set is pretty tall and doesn't get low enough to easily climb moderate hills without assist. It's an e-bike though, so you use the assist when and where it's helpful.

I have absolutely nothing against the way you use your Vado. Just let me show an alternate view.
I agree the difference between the total mass of the system (rider + bike + cargo) for an SL 1 and the full power e-bike is just several percent. However, it is not everything. One thing is sure: once you have got at the cruising speed and ride at a constant speed the only resistances that matter are the rolling resistance and air drag. It is different for accelerating though.

• Vado SL 1 at 17 kg is 79% heavier than a 9.5 kg pedal gravel bike
• Vado 4.0 at 26 kg is 174% heavier than the gravel bike
• Vado 4 is 53% heavier than the Vado SL 1.

Meaning, the acceleration on a heavy e-bike is very poor (it depends directly on the mass). The amount of energy you have to input with your legs to get the kinetic energy at the cruising speed is high, too. There is also a heavy rotating mass of the wheels on a heavy e-bike. In simple terms, a heavy e-bike is sluggish without any assistance. Add a little bit of the motor power and the e-bike becomes lively and agile!

Of course you can disagree with me BR. I only find it weird people buy expensive e-bikes but often use no assistance except the climbing... (Which is more justified for the Vado SL 1 as the weight of that e-bike is similar to many inexpensive pedal bikes).

Yes, at least on my US bike, you can pedal and coast as fast as you want, even after the motor stops assisting (28 MPH on mine). I can't imagine the motor would have a way of preventing that. They'd have to add an internal brake or regen to limit rider output, I'd think.

Of course, the motor would switch off and never prevent a fast descent including pedalling.

 

[ronaan]

Thank you for your input BravoRomeo,

it's very valuable for my buying decision to know if you can go without assist in the plains.

By "cycling over the assist limit" I meant the proverbial "wall" some people hit when the assist suddenly stops and the bike weight + drivetrain resistance kick in.

I also get very inconsistent weight values for the Tero X. It seems the "X" versions are lighter than their hardtail counterparts.

weight in kg	Hardtail	Fully
4.0	25.5	23.6
5.0	25.55	23.3
6.0		22.5

Are the full suspension bikes really lighter than the hardtail? Not like 2kg are going to break me in the grand scheme of things. But we sometimes put the bikes on the bike carrier attached to the trailer hitch and the weight plays an important role there.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Are the full suspension bikes really lighter than the hardtail?

Wrong information
The weight of X is without the battery. +4 kg.
X is the heaviest Specialized e-bike.

 

[ronaan]

Just stumbled upon the other thread. Wow. That’s almost cheating.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Just stumbled upon the other thread. Wow. That’s almost cheating.

It is.
Trust me, I had a Tero X 5.0 in my hands, and it was as heavy as I hardly could lift it.
I have just checked the Tero X weights at Specialized U.S. website:
Tero X 4.0: 26.15 kg (heavy fork, smaller battery)
Tero X 5.0: 27.2 kg (heavy fork, heavy battery)
Tero X 6.0: 26.4 kg (lightweight fork, heavy battery)

Meanwhile, the weight of Vado 5.0 at the same website is 25.3 kg.

 

[Marcela]

I ride mine all the time without assist. One of the benefits of Spec. Low assist set at 25% which works well also. I installed 36t chain ring on my vado and como and they have plenty of power, kind of like a Tero without suspension. Another bene of Spec, change the chain ring.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I only find it weird people buy expensive e-bikes but often use no assistance except the climbing... (Which is more justified for the Vado SL 1 as the weight of that e-bike is similar to many inexpensive pedal bikes).

Not weird at at all. I do it a lot on gentle terrain now, and generally quite by choice. On the SL 1, OFF is just another assist level with no detectable motor drag.

For starters, if I'm looking for some exercise and in no hurry, why not ride in OFF? There's a certain satisfaction in riding under your own steam, and the SL 1 supports that. Also useful for keeping speed down with slower riders without having to think about it.

As an added bonus, no motor noise to compete with the soundscape — the birdsong, the roar of the surf, the subtle but satisfying mechanical whirr of a well-engineered and -maintained bicycle. Very peaceful. Often don't even notice the motor noise now, but I always notice when it's gone.

Of course, no need to mention the value of adding natural-feeling assist whenever I want or need it. Plenty of hills around here that I have no desire to tackle on my own. And sometimes I just want or need to speed things up.

Stretching the SL 1's limited battery range is another very practical reason to spend time in OFF. That's bailed me out of several unexpected battery crunches with relatively little pain, but I also do it proactively at times. Reduces the need to weigh the SL 1 down with a range extender on longer rides.

 

[BravoRomeo]

I have absolutely nothing against the way you use your Vado. Just let me show an alternate view.
I agree the difference between the total mass of the system (rider + bike + cargo) for an SL 1 and the full power e-bike is just several percent. However, it is not everything. One thing is sure: once you have got at the cruising speed and ride at a constant speed the only resistances that matter are the rolling resistance and air drag. It is different for accelerating though.

• Vado SL 1 at 17 kg is 79% heavier than a 9.5 kg pedal gravel bike
• Vado 4.0 at 26 kg is 174% heavier than the gravel bike
• Vado 4 is 53% heavier than the Vado SL 1.

Meaning, the acceleration on a heavy e-bike is very poor (it depends directly on the mass). The amount of energy you have to input with your legs to get the kinetic energy at the cruising speed is high, too. There is also a heavy rotating mass of the wheels on a heavy e-bike. In simple terms, a heavy e-bike is sluggish without any assistance. Add a little bit of the motor power and the e-bike becomes lively and agile!

Of course you can disagree with me BR. I only find it weird people buy expensive e-bikes but often use no assistance except the climbing... (Which is more justified for the Vado SL 1 as the weight of that e-bike is similar to many inexpensive pedal bikes).


Of course, the motor would switch off and never prevent a fast descent including pedalling.

Good points.

Just different ways to use these e-bikes depending on the day. A lighter weight (or more specifically, lighter-wheeled) e-bike would accelerate faster, all else equal. I really noticed that when I tried an e-Brompton with its small wheels! Zippy and nimble, for sure. On the other extreme are those heavy fat-tire ebikes like Lectric (also test rode one a few years ago before deciding on a TSDZ2 conversion of my folding Montague mountain bike - 45 lbs after conversion). On both the Lectric and my conversion bike, pedaling without assist is a bit of a bear, so that's where hitting the wall comes in. My TSDZ2 motor has noticeable drag when assist is off, and I've always disliked that downside, so the Specialized is a breath of fresh air (but not without its own downsides).

For me, the Turbo Vado fits somewhere in-between. It's certainly achievable to pedal it without assist, and at speed on a level path it doesn't take much to keep it going. The bike paths at Austin were perfect for turning the assist off: mostly level, 10 MPH limit, and many of other path users. Taking an e-bike at all on that path was kind of redundant, but it's my only bike while traveling. I'm sure I would have loved having the SL or even my old analog bike on that day.

Now biking around my hilly neighborhood at home I use Eco or Sport mode. That makes it possible for me to get a great workout in but keep my speed up enough for mixing with traffic and doing a much larger and hillier loop than I would be able to otherwise in the time available.

Turbo, I rarely use.. but did use it the other day to get down to the grocery store and back in time before dinner guests arrived. It felt about as quick as taking a car, but I could park at the bike rack in front instead of wasting time looking for a parking space. A real time saver, actually.

It almost feels like having three bikes in one, even if it's a bit of a beast to lift up onto the bike rack (but less-so than the aforementioned Lectric bike which was 70 lbs).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Good, ladies and gentlemen, you have convinced me even a relatively heavy e-bike can be ridden unassisted, especially if the surface is smooth, you are riding on the flat at a moderate speed, and you are a healthy person. Not my case as I am an ailing person with bad legs; therefore the minimal assistance I can live with is "me x 0.48 with 100 W motor power cap". Which translates to 15/20% for my Vado 6.0 or 25/40% (30/50% preferred) for Vado SL.

If your goal is having a workout, and you need the assistance just to counter the hills and headwind, good for you. My goal, however, is taking long interesting trips. Instead of pedalling for, say, two hours, I can be on a five hour trip because I use the assistance... Some other person might do five singletrack loops instead of two.

It is never black or white!

 

[Chargeride]

I will never buy a Specialised until they spell it properly.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I will never buy a Specialised until they spell it properly.

You conveniently forget that we won the Revolutionary War. Our call.
;^}

 

[Chargeride]

It seems it was adopted to make English easier for the colonies.
I am not in the room to judge.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It seems it was adopted to make English easier for the colonies.
I am not in the room to judge.

You mean pidgin
As far as I know, the American English is more archaic than the British variety Only one Noah Webster once simplified the American spelling
Do you realise it? (There is a single British spelling I cannot accept at all: an aeroplane; if so, why not aerocraft?)

 

[MartsEbike]

There is a single British spelling I cannot accept at all: an aeroplane; if so, why not aerocraft?

The French (as usual ) are to blame for that. Aeroplane (Aéroplane) is a French word the British adopted. The French themselves derived from the Greek word for Air, Aēr.

Despite dropping the word Aeroplane, the Americans still use the words Aerospace and Aeronautics.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Despite dropping the word Aeroplane, the Americans still use the words Aerospace and Aeronautics.

Oh.