The transition

kevinmccune said:
Where are the "diamond" chips that were supposed to revolutionize electronics?
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Silicon is still getting better and cheaper and faster. Hard for anything to catch up outside of niche applications (like with gallium arsenide or indium phosphide) until improvements in silicon stall out.
 
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Chargeride said:
Im pretty confident the people building this stuff are the same people trying to scare everyone about global warming in the media.
The absolute fk u slimespeak from the CEO.
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I don't know why you call the GE Vernova CEO's comments "slimespeak". Everything he said was 100% true and accurate. If you viewed his efficiency comment, only one of many in that clip, through a green advocacy lens, then you are taking it out of context. Right after that, he said that their turbines are a solution to a problem now, but not the answer. A skeptic would say that was him being a shade advocate for small nuclear, which is another product GE Vernova makes.

I would absolutely prefer large scale datacenters being responsible for their own off-grid power over crushing an already stressed grid with more demand. The water issue is separate and a much larger problem.
 
Maybe you dont have my inherent disgust of the corporate propaganda unit that is a CEO.
Im sure its true that they have vastly improved, but lets just divert attention away by sitting on some cheap stools while being interviewed by a fellow corporate shill media outlet.
 
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Chargeride said:
Maybe you dont have my inherent disgust of the corporate propaganda unit that is a CEO.
Im sure its true that they have vastly improved, but lets just divert attention away by sitting on some cheap stools while being interviewed by a fellow corporate shill media outlet.
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I can't argue with either of these statements. I've worked for a number of CEO's, in all sizes of companies from a startup to SMB to Fortune 100, both male and female. Most of them had one thing in common, they were arrogant pricks. And don't get me started about the corporate media "journalists" pushing their political agendas.

My point was only that this AI juggernaut is being powered by every average Joe that has a 401K, IRA, or variable annuity that includes AI and AI-adjacent stocks and funds. They have accumulated very significant wealth during this period, and while earnings have slowed a bit, there are years of continued growth ahead. Nobody wants to stop this train, and it's not just the wealthy, powerful CEO's and media talking heads. The momentum is unstoppable for the forseeable future. That said, the principle players are not going to prioritize the respect of the power grid and water supply in your town. They will steamroll over everything to get these datacenters built and keep the silicon cool in order to keep their earnings flowing. What these turbines do is to give the AI machine the ability to be less reliant on the grid, and that's good for anyone that lives within a few hundred miles of any datacenter, small or large. I am 100% all for that.

The two remaining challenges are water, and LNG supply. A gas turbine is useless if you can't get the LNG to it at the volume it requires. I rarely hear that argument from the CEO's or talking heads. Pipelines are like nuclear reactors these days. You can't get one built because the green activists won't let you. Water supply is even worse. Just look at California.
 
Chargeride said:
Maybe you dont have my inherent disgust of the corporate propaganda unit that is a CEO.
Im sure its true that they have vastly improved, but lets just divert attention away by sitting on some cheap stools while being interviewed by a fellow corporate shill media outlet.
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I know a couple I cant stand ones last name starts with an "F" and the other starts with a "B"
stompandgo said:
I can't argue with either of these statements. I've worked for a number of CEO's, in all sizes of companies from a startup to SMB to Fortune 100, both male and female. Most of them had one thing in common, they were arrogant pricks. And don't get me started about the corporate media "journalists" pushing their political agendas.

My point was only that this AI juggernaut is being powered by every average Joe that has a 401K, IRA, or variable annuity that includes AI and AI-adjacent stocks and funds. They have accumulated very significant wealth during this period, and while earnings have slowed a bit, there are years of continued growth ahead. Nobody wants to stop this train, and it's not just the wealthy, powerful CEO's and media talking heads. The momentum is unstoppable for the forseeable future. That said, the principle players are not going to prioritize the respect of the power grid and water supply in your town. They will steamroll over everything to get these datacenters built and keep the silicon cool in order to keep their earnings flowing. What these turbines do is to give the AI machine the ability to be less reliant on the grid, and that's good for anyone that lives within a few hundred miles of any datacenter, small or large. I am 100% all for that.

The two remaining challenges are water, and LNG supply. A gas turbine is useless if you can't get the LNG to it at the volume it requires. I rarely hear that argument from the CEO's or talking heads. Pipelines are like nuclear reactors these days. You can't get one built because the green activists won't let you. Water supply is even worse. Just look at California.
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Fun fact,you can actually run a gas turbine on powdered coal( where does that leave us?)I hear the diamond chips are almost indestructible and use very little current( just perfect for military tech,eh?)
 
Chargeride said:
Maybe you dont have my inherent disgust of the corporate propaganda unit that is a CEO.
Im sure its true that they have vastly improved, but lets just divert attention away by sitting on some cheap stools while being interviewed by worth millions( they need the Japanese business modela fellow corporate shill media outlet.
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while the parent company burns( too big to fail) they rake in bonuses worth millions while the parent company burns and thousands lose their livelihood.
 
stompandgo said:
The momentum is unstoppable for the forseeable future...

The two remaining challenges are water, and LNG supply. A gas turbine is useless if you can't get the LNG to it at the volume it requires. I rarely hear that argument from the CEO's or talking heads. Pipelines are like nuclear reactors these days. You can't get one built because the green activists won't let you. Water supply is even worse. Just look at California.
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No it isn't.

GPUs and RAM are backordered about a year and it isn't likely you can increase the production rate quickly enough to matter.

Worse, things like cooling systems and transformers are backordered out about four years. What I find interesting is that if this were real someone would be building a bunch of factories...

One not-very-large company (Oracle) has about $100 billion in debt related to data center builds. Other companies have added an additional $250 billion in debt. All this to run products where two major players (OpenAI and Anthropic) together lose north of $50 billion per year.

I'll just gently remind everyone that in 2008 all it took was about $60 billion in bad subprime home loans to put the economy in the ditch. Don't say you can't see this one coming...
 
Mr. Coffee said:
Silicon is still getting better and cheaper and faster. Hard for anything to catch up outside of niche applications (like with gallium arsenide or indium phosphide) until improvements in silicon stall out.
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Moore's law" like everything else will fail on the nano or sub nano level one day requiring different tech like the laser chips or gasp the "diamond" chips-remember in all this the Plutocrats ( with their lust for "Mammon") will dictate what finally happens and the amount of "trickledown.
stompandgo said:
How much coal?
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all the Appalachian Mtns and ridges and west can produce!( "easy bake" in our time!) when going through WVa and you come up on a strip mine you know the time is coming nye.
 
Mr. Coffee said:
No it isn't.

GPUs and RAM are backordered about a year and it isn't likely you can increase the production rate quickly enough to matter.

Worse, things like cooling systems and transformers are backordered out about four years. What I find interesting is that if this were real someone would be building a bunch of factories...

One not-very-large company (Oracle) has about $100 billion in debt related to data center builds. Other companies have added an additional $250 billion in debt. All this to run products where two major players (OpenAI and Anthropic) together lose north of $50 billion per year.

I'll just gently remind everyone that in 2008 all it took was about $60 billion in bad subprime home loans to put the economy in the ditch. Donressed "James't say you can't see this one coming...
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I wonder about the new wind farm at "Gala",where is the new data center? will the increasingly stressed "James" river be called upon to carry its excess heat away( "Smurfitt-West Rock" is already using it for a dump)
Funny fact the air quality samples for "Covingtons" WestVaCo paper mill were taken about 100 miles away in the "Shenandoah" national park( bet they passed most days) now to their credit around 1987 the did change something about their emissions you can hardly smell them were I live in Bath Co.( around 30 miles upwind)It used to be pretty rank,the air from there turns copper a nice shade of green-they have cleaned up their act a bit,selling excess power to the grid and putting a "biomass" boiler on line that halved coal consumption,the big but is-talking about too big to fail,if that Papermill went under the whole multi-county area would be poorer then it already is( the "Appalachian" effect again.
 
Roamers said:
Like this?

Micron | Empire State Development https://share.google/RvPN6Bd3eHHXPTMJK
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Those facilities are expected to be completed in about 2030 if everything goes well. So that isn't relevant to this discussion at all.

Lead time on fabs is very long and even that timeline is very optimistic. Right now lead time for EUV lithography equipment is about eighteen months. Since they are mostly made in the Netherlands a hypothetical war with Greenland or Canada would delay that quite a bit...

You can at least theoretically build a factory that makes transformers or HVAC systems much more quickly.
 
Mr. Coffee said:
No it isn't.

GPUs and RAM are backordered about a year and it isn't likely you can increase the production rate quickly enough to matter.

Worse, things like cooling systems and transformers are backordered out about four years. What I find interesting is that if this were real someone would be building a bunch of factories...

One not-very-large company (Oracle) has about $100 billion in debt related to data center builds. Other companies have added an additional $250 billion in debt. All this to run products where two major players (OpenAI and Anthropic) together lose north of $50 billion per year.

I'll just gently remind everyone that in 2008 all it took was about $60 billion in bad subprime home loans to put the economy in the ditch. Don't say you can't see this one coming...
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All the backlog does is keep this runaway train running longer. You picked Oracle as an example to make your point, and it's a valid one, but they are one of the problem children in this whole thing. They had excessive debt before the AI boom took off, and that debt has always been reflected in their stock price. The big players, the Mag6/7/8/whatever, have boatloads of cash on their balance sheets. It is not the same situation as 2008 at all. If this thing comes to a crashing halt, it will be driven by outside factors, not financial. The kinds of things that I mentioned above.
 
Mr. Coffee said:
Those facilities are expected to be completed in about 2030 if everything goes well. So that isn't relevant to this discussion at all.
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My bad, for a more relevant comment, you should have said:

"What I find interesting is that if this were real someone would be have been building a bunch of factories starting 4 or 5 years ago."
 
I want an explanation!

Used car sales in the Untied States so far in 2026 are down about 0.9 percent. Yet used electric vehicle sales are up 29 percent. How is this possible if electric vehicles are fake news?
 
Because you are skewing stats to make your pro-EV argument. In real numbers, EV's are dwarfed by fossil fuel vehicles. Any gains in any EV market segment are miniscule compared to gains in fossil fuel vehicles. You should be focusing on fossil vehicle losses to EV's.

EV's are not fake news. They are here to stay. They are not for everyone, but they could be right for significantly more drivers than they are today, but change is coming.

When I was in Italy, there were many more EV's than here in the US. Why? Because the change maker, BYD, was prevalent there. BYD is coming here. There will be others, not just them. When China decides to dump cheap electric vehicles in the US market, fossil fuel vehicle sales will drop. US EV manufacturers will be forced to drop prices to stay alive. China will see this and start the race to the bottom. US manufacturers will react, but they will only be able to react so much. Labor unions will not cooperate. Automation only saves so much. There will be massive plant closings and layoffs. Progressives will rejoice at the downfall of "Big Auto".

Your dream will come true. I'm sure of it.
 
Mr. Coffee said:
I want an explanation!

Used car sales in the Untied States so far in 2026 are down about 0.9 percent. Yet used electric vehicle sales are up 29 percent. How is this possible if electric vehicles are fake news?
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Pretty basic math. Comparing higher volume (ICE) to lower volume (EV) change in sales.
 
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