Pinion Motor.Gearbox.Unit (MGU)

[Rás Cnoic]

One of the motor gearbox systems that has been developing for a number of years is the tiny Scottish firm Intradrive and their GD8 motor. They had a rideable prototype at Eurobike last year and are back this year apparently on some brand bikes, but nothing yet online from Eurobike, lost in the Avinox blitz. Also these new eCVT motors might be a death knell as, like Pinion, theirs is a mechanical gearbox.

But it has one aspect that i think could be amazing- it's designed to fit Shimano EP8/6 mountings. This raises the prospect of being able to buy a used bike with an old battered shimano motor, buy the GD8 and fit it to the bike! Hey presto a fairly cheap MGU bike! Chain of course no split frame for belt!And yeah yeah, there are loads of compatibility issues, frame dropouts, shimano battery and computer etc etc. So I've no idea if selling the motor off the shelf is part of their plan. But it might be attractive to brands who currently build frames around the EP8 system, which I guess is Intradrive's plan.

https://www.intradrive.co.uk/

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Reading all the - slightly hysterical - reporting about these new eCVT gearboxes at Eurobike, now is probably a good time to put up this vid, a restoration of a 1930s German Wanderer gearbox bike. Such remarkable engineering, clearly built to last given that bike is close to 100 years old now. The fella doing the restoring knows his trade and what's lovely is he doesn't try and 'doll it up' but carefully builds it back, paint missing and all.

I mean the bike, all steel parts, must have weighed as much as a small tank, but what a vehicle. So many beautiful parts, those slim cranks! And the lugged frame construction looks like a similar 'scaffolding' type joint that the Atherton's use on their 3d printed Downhill MTBs in 2026

If you don't fancy watching the painstaking progress, he starts opening the gearbox on 5 mins and starts building the gearbox back together around 15 mins in.

From what I've read, gearbox bikes where - I wouldn't say popular - but sold well from the 30s to the 50s until the Sturmey Archer 3 speed type hubs took over, being much cheaper to make and didn't need a special frame and by then derailleurs were also gaining traction. But in that period (outside WW2 obviously) gearbox bikes were made in Switzerland/Germany mostly and motors sold to brands in other countries, very popular in flat, cycling mad Holland of course, but there was even an English bike brand with a Swiss gearbox called, of course, the Bulldog!

They were expensive bikes and favoured by the professional classes, Doctors on their rounds liked them!

I think we easily forget our cycling history, always looking to the next big thing. Worth seeing the bikes that came before. The Safety bicycle was invented in 1885 so by the time gear box bikes emerged, bikes had been enormously popular for over 50 years.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

One of the motor gearbox systems that has been developing for a number of years is the tiny Scottish firm Intradrive and their GD8 motor. They had a rideable prototype at Eurobike last year and are back this year apparently on some brand bikes, but nothing yet online from Eurobike, lost in the Avinox blitz. Also these new eCVT motors might be a death knell as, like Pinion, theirs is a mechanical gearbox.

But it has one aspect that i think could be amazing- it's designed to fit Shimano EP8/6 mountings. This raises the prospect of being able to buy a used bike with an old battered shimano motor, buy the GD8 and fit it to the bike! Hey presto a fairly cheap MGU bike! Chain of course no split frame for belt!And yeah yeah, there are loads of compatibility issues, frame dropouts, shimano battery and computer etc etc. So I've no idea if selling the motor off the shelf is part of their plan. But it might be attractive to brands who currently build frames around the EP8 system, which I guess is Intradrive's plan.

https://www.intradrive.co.uk/

Here's a look at the Intradrive motor at Eurobike and a chat with Ed (the owner?) I put this clip in the Eurobike tread as well:

 

[scrambler]

Looking for details on the eCVT technology announced in the Avinox and Gobao motors, I found the french video below on the first integrated eCVT motor to come out, which was the e2drive owuru motor on the Decathlon ebikes in 2023.

The owuru motor definitely does not have as good specs power and gear range wise as the new announced model, nor did it have a manual mode.

Owuru propulsion module for eBike by E2 Drives

Discover OWURU, the first propulsion module for electric bikes with continuously variable transmission, now available from Decathlon.

owuru-ebike.com

Of course we have no idea how similar or different either of the Gobao or Avinox transmission are, but they would have to be unless they are stealing the patented technology...

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Looking for details on the eCVT technology announced in the Avinox and Gobao motors, I found the french video below on the first integrated eCVT motor to come out, which was the e2drive owuru motor on the Decathlon ebikes in 2023.

The owuru motor definitely does not have as good specs power and gear range wise as the new announced model, nor did it have a manual mode.

Owuru propulsion module for eBike by E2 Drives

Discover OWURU, the first propulsion module for electric bikes with continuously variable transmission, now available from Decathlon.

owuru-ebike.com

Of course we have no idea how similar or different either of the Gobao or Avinox transmission are, but they would have to be unless they are stealing the patented technology...

I posted about that Decathlon/Owuru motor on here at the time, but I didn't take in that it was a CVT motor or what that meant, just assumed it was a slightly different take on a mechanical gearbox with cogs etc. I saw an Italian rider review at the time on the 920 commuter bike, cycling in the countryside up to a castle on a hill, looked a lot of fun! And Decathlon's pricing is pretty competitive as well. Google says they have been a big success for Decathlon and they are expanding the range.

I have no Decathlon stores within a hundred miles or I'd go to take a look. It does show that eCVT motors can be robust and reliable as the 920 came out in 2023 and they've since added 2 other models.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Interesting thoughts about eCVTs online right now. So Decathlon had to recall all three models with Owaru drives last December (25) due to a software issue that caused backwards ghost pedaling. Something to do with the dual motors not syncing properly. They acted promptly and a free firmware update which took ten mins at any Decathlon centre, sorted the issue. But it shows how complex this drive system is. And with both Avinox and Goboa systems being much more powerful and planning for use on EMTBs, operating in harsh conditions, they need to make sure the systems are robust before the roll out.

Decathlon recalls its high-end urban e-bikes due to software issues

The Decathlon e-bikes equipped with Owuru motors are affected by a firmware issue that has forced the brand to issue a recall for an update.

en.brujulabike.com

Goboa has apparently included a clutch system for this very reason.

Online forums are also speculating whether both Chinese systems are 'inspired' by the Owaru drive as you suggested Scrambler. Decathlon had the drive partly built in Chinese factories and Goboa as world leader in control systems for mobility industry apparently knows everything that goes on in all those Chinese factories. Apparently Decathlon patented the hardware but not the software wanting to keep that secret, this created a legal loophole that Goboa etc could build their own system and write their own unique code to make the hardware work. Avinox and Goboa have been busily stealing engineers from each other in a "spy v spy' scenario so easy to see them both figuring out the Owaru system.

Anyway all this will need to be tested when the bikes go on sale. They should give one to Chargeride here on EBR so he can cheerfully trash it in the Lake district and Scotland in winter mud and floods! That'll show if the eCVT can stand up to real world conditions. Especially without any slippage of gears which sounds awful and reminds me of the old battered farm bike with sturmey archer 3 speed hub gears that was wrecked, so the gears kept slipping, awful feeling through the pedals.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I missed this bike (due to EMTB blanket coverage of Avinox/Goboa) this is a new urban ebike with the Goboa eCVT system at Eurobike. It reminds me of the Vanmoof when it arrived with that enclosed chainguard rather than a belt drive. Not sure why no belt? Anyway, this has an interesting commuting idea. That horizontal block under the seat is the battery, but the diagonal black block under that is the charger! This means you just need a 'kettle' lead in your pocket and you can charge your bike from any wall socket. You could lean it by your desk at work and just plug it in. That's pretty nifty.

Here's a good discussion on the eCTV systems from UrbanBikeNews - so focusing on city bikes not EMTBs.

New Motor Gearbox Units: Is this the big breakthrough? - urbanbike.news

Eurobike 2026 will be remembered above all for its significantly reduced exhibition space. Compared with previous years, the trade fair seemed downright empty, and the future of what was once the leading international trade fair is more uncertain than ever. It is all the more remarkable...

urbanbike.news

A handy graph from that article looking at the big MU players so far:

 

[speedub.nate]

Many critical replies are coming from a "purist" perspective – "I want control of my shifting" – which is generally the camp I fall into.

I demoed the Also. (Rivian) bike at Sea Otter. I went in with very similar feelings – too complicated, lack of control, overweight.

The demo ride changed my mind. This is bike with serious mass market appeal. I'm confident the Gobao system will fall into the same camp. This is not some hacked together "a bolted-on motor unit shifts gears for you" like Enviolo's AutomatiQ system. The shifting is integrated into the system. It's seamless, it reacts instantaneously, it's natural, it does hills beautifully.

I'm not suggesting it's for everybody, not suggesting it's going to completely replace derailleurs or manual shifting. What I am saying is for anybody doubtful, you have to do yourself a solid and demo one is these systems. They are quite literally going to develop into a new segment and also take over a bunch of what we've taken for granted as a foundational element of cycling.

I think you'll be surprised.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Many critical replies are coming from a "purist" perspective – "I want control of my shifting" – which is generally the camp I fall into.

That's certainly my camp, too, but I wouldn't call it a "purist" stance, as I really don't care what other people do. I just want to be much more engaged in the cycling process than a bike like the Rivian allows.

A true purist is a zealot who thinks everyone else should follow the (often silly) rules they've made up for themselves. Dealt with very vocal true purists in another hobby and took every opportunity to make them cringe.

Agree that a well-integrated auto-everything point-and-shoot ebike might appeal to a lot of people — especially utility riders who just want to get from A to B with minimum effort and fuss. And that's certainly their call.

It's the same in the car world. For every guy like me who prefers a manual transmission, there are thousands who'll only drive an automatic. I understand the appeal from driving my wife's automatic. Just not my cup of tea.

 

[speedub.nate]

Maybe "traditionalist?"

Meat & Potatoes. Stick & Rudder. Cable & Housing.

The part I struggle with is acknowledging the departure from a bike that can be easily maintained with off the shelf component parts. But I've been drifting that way anyway with internally geared hubs and hydraulic brakes (still love my BB7s!), and most recently electrification.

This seems to be the fullest departure: the motor IS the drivetrain, and it isn't user-maintainable. But it IS a perfectly valid option. It's an evolution of what I consider a bicycle to be.

Ultimately I wonder if these motor / drivetrain units will continue to evolve into hubs, and eliminate the chain ring & belt. The Also. bike has already mechanically decoupled the crank from the output drive. This is another traditionalist "cling-to" that I was bothered by, but after riding it, that concern vanished. For a utility / commute bike, a heavy rear hub isn't much of a concern, just one more traditional barrier to knock over.

I was also a longtime diehard manual transmission guy, but EVs have taken that from me and I've been cool with it.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Maybe "traditionalist?"

How about just "eager participant"? When the gear shifts and assist changes are my job, I'm much more in touch with my surroundings — especially the topography, wind, and riding surface. And much more in the moment.

I really enjoy that fully engaged experience. It's not about clinging to old ways just because they're familiar. It's about wanting what only the old ways have to offer.

Now, if I started commuting 20+ mi everyday, I might well become interested in a 2nd bike with less engagement.

But as a retiree, I ride to be outdoors, commune with the ocean, embrace the topography, negotiate the dirt, explore new places, and keep reasonably fit for age. And for that kind of riding, my all-manual mid-drive's just the ticket.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I think its horses for courses. In that there is a strong case for many types of bikes. Unfortunately I personally can't buy them all, and that's a bitter pill to swallow. But there are many out there I would love to test ride. I guess that's an advantage to living in a big city or near by one, more opportunity with more bike shops, open days, bike shows etc to actually try new stuff.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

That's certainly my camp, too, but I wouldn't call it a "purist" stance, as I really don't care what other people do. I just want to be much more engaged in the cycling process than a bike like the Rivian allows.

A true purist is a zealot who thinks everyone else should follow the (often silly) rules they've made up for themselves. Dealt with very vocal true purists in another hobby and took every opportunity to make them cringe.

Agree that a well-integrated auto-everything point-and-shoot ebike might appeal to a lot of people — especially utility riders who just want to get from A to B with minimum effort and fuss. And that's certainly their call.

It's the same in the car world. For every guy like me who prefers a manual transmission, there are thousands who'll only drive an automatic. I understand the appeal from driving my wife's automatic. Just not my cup of tea.

View attachment 212105

very funny tyre cover!

 

[scrambler]

I think if an automated gear change was able to maintain the right pressure on the pedal when maneuvering on tricky terrain, I would not care for the manual gearing as it would allow to focus on the bike handling over the obstacles.

Now it remains to be seen if one of these systems will get close enough that it would be the case

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I think if an automated gear change was able to maintain the right pressure on the pedal when maneuvering on tricky terrain, I would not care for the manual gearing as it would allow to focus on the bike handling over the obstacles.

Now it remains to be seen if one of these systems will get close enough that it would be the case

yep a lot depends on how robust these systems prove to be.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I think its horses for courses. In that there is a strong case for many types of bikes.

Absolutely!

Different missions. For me, the manual's the default. Takes some of the sting out of errands. With the top down, it can even function as an ultra-light pickup for Home Depot runs. Not so good for family road trips with the dog.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Absolutely!

View attachment 212110
Different missions. For me, the manual's the default. Takes some of the sting out of errands. With the top down, it can even function as an ultra-light pickup for Home Depot runs. Not so good for family road trips with the dog.

Auto has never really caught on over here. I've never driven an automatic. And with the steep twisting lanes around here, lots of clutch control!

 

[speedub.nate]

yep a lot depends on how robust these systems prove to be.

That's going to be something to watch!

We all know what a derailleur drivetrain looks like. And most of us have a good idea of the complexity of a Rohloff or Nexus hub. Or look up a cutaway video of the Pinion MGU, and you'll see this similar level of complexity and switching gears, with a drive motor added to the mix.

By comparison, I can't find cutaways of the Gobao or of Also.'s system, but these should both be dramatically simpler: there will be a reduction/planetary arrangement, but rather then the complexity of groups of gears and mechanical shifting to engage various speeds, everything should be locked in place, and instead there will be a second motor to drive the planetary carrier and create the desired gear ratio. Everything spins, but nothing slides, clicks, or disengages.

I imagine this will eventually result in a drivetrain that is many times more reliable than what we have today – comparable to derailleur vs single speed reliability.

But it will also likely be expensive to fix when it does finally break, maybe not something for the average garage mechanic.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Auto has never really caught on over here. I've never driven an automatic. And with the steep twisting lanes around here, lots of clutch control!

Never knew that! But come to think of it, the 3-4 cars we've rented in the EU over the years were all manuals.

 

[mschwett]

Auto has never really caught on over here. I've never driven an automatic. And with the steep twisting lanes around here, lots of clutch control!

growing up in an enthusiastic, do-it-yourself kind of family, i had never driven an automatic transmission until the first time i rented a car in the states. my best mate and i actually "hired" a car in scotland years before we did in the states, and of course it was a stick! great times.

i've personally owned 6 cars, i guess, and until one year ago they'd all been stick. i told myself that the next stop after rwd/awd ICE cars with a stick and way too much power was an EV, so we basically skipped the slushboxes. and i guess you can't say a car that doesn't HAVE a transmission is an automatic.

i like the MGU concept for city bikes. they're all too big, heavy, and powerful for my tastes, but hopefully in time someone will come out with a smaller lighter one better suited for street-legal riding in civilized places. my vanmoof has an automatic IGH, and it works great. perfect for a city bike. i'd like to see something in the 2.5kg range, 250w nominal and no more than 750 true maximum with a ±400wh battery, belt drive, rigid diamond/two triangle frame, flat bar, integrated lights and anti-theft/find my... would happily pay 5-8k for a bike like that as long as it weighed <35lb which should be VERY easy to achieve.