The transition

[mschwett]

BECAUSE I JUST FINISHED SOMETHING AT WORK and am entertained by this, i think what mr. c was saying is something like this :

 

[Chargeride]

There are vast swathes of north america where you really do need a large truck to get your business done and an electric version is nowhere near up for the job.
Steve can you bring up 20 gallons of diesel, we had to pull a semi out of a ditch.
Steve can you bring up 100kwh of electricity.

 

[Roamers]

BECAUSE I JUST FINISHED SOMETHING AT WORK and am entertained by this, i think what mr. c was saying is something like this :
View attachment 211605

Nice. I agree that is what Mr. C probably thinks. Would need to clarify what the "kid" he is referring to actually is. My definition of kid is not old enough to have the family/house responsibilities.

In my area, I don't see F350s unless they are owned as work horses and tow regularly; construction or 5th wheelers.

I see 150/250s regularly used for recreational uses; we had 150s for years that were used for camping almost every weekend in the summer. 250 when we started towing. Our first truck (1977) was purchased because it was less expensive than virtually any car available at the time. Very few I see have them "just because"; that's what Suburbans are for. Big is beautiful!

But we live in the Heartland, not the Coast.

 

[mschwett]

...

But we live in the Heartland, not the Coast.

right, that's one of the things that's great about america, vastly diverse geographies and living situations. but most americans live in and around urban areas - the 11 "heartland" states have around 27 million people of which around 35% live outside cities, so you're talking about 9-10 million people. around one in 38 americans live in the situation you're describing. about the same number of people live in los angeles county as the rural and extraurban population of those entire 11 states. this is why it's kind of silly to say EVs don't work for americans because towing, hauling tons of s*it, driving thousands of miles without getting gas, and so on. that is just not the reality for the VAST majority of americans!

In this 11-state footprint, an estimated 34.3% of the total population (approx. 9.4 million out of 27.4 million) lives outside of a city or metro area of 50,000+ people. This is significantly higher than the overall U.S. average, where only about 14% to 19% of the country lives outside an MSA. [1, 2]

 

[mschwett]

There are vast swathes of north america where you really do need a large truck to get your business done and an electric version is nowhere near up for the job.
Steve can you bring up 20 gallons of diesel, we had to pull a semi out of a ditch.
Steve can you bring up 100kwh of electricity.

vast swathes of land. not vast numbers of people. land doesn't drive vehicles, people do!

 

[RunForTheHills]

I live in a resort area where more than half the houses are second homes used only a few times a year. In nearby Lake Arrowhead, there are multi-million dollar lake front homes that only get used one day a year, usually the Fourth of July. You can tell because they have shutters over the windows. They are third or fourth homes for very wealthy families. If someone wants to buy a truck to tow their boat a few times a year, it's their money and they have a right to do so. Or tow their ATVs to the desert, or their race car to the track, or tow their horses around. Lots of people do those things, even people who live in Los Angeles and Orange County. Just look at the 91 eastbound or the 5 northbound on a Friday night and count the boats, RVs, 5th wheels, etc.

 

[Roamers]

11 "heartland" states have around 27 million people of which around 35% live outside cities, so you're talking about 9-10 million people. around one in 38 americans live in the situation you're describing

I have lived in 4 different "cities" over the last 50 years. The biggest was 68k. Currently in a city of 42k. Not a good comparison to LA, or Chicago. As far as "lifestyle" goes, there are many more trucks towing recrational and construction trailers in a typical city than Ag trailers in the "country".

EVs are good for those that like them. The federal government should not be trying to influence availability of choice though. Seems popularity of new purchases has decreased since the federal credit expired. Choice is good.

this is why it's kind of silly to say EVs don't work for americans because towing, hauling tons of s*it, driving thousands of miles without getting gas, and so on.

Not passing judgment on people's choice to drive EVs. They work for some Americans. Now let's respect somone's decision that they don't work for everyone. With a "family" of ~50, there are 3 EVs. 2 are my brother's (he also has a diesel van), the 3rd is a nephew that only drives it to work; Ascent used for all other transportation. It works for them.

 

[Chargeride]

Markit data 2025, EVs are 1.9% of vehicles in the US, but demand is actually predicted to drop.
This article feels slightly biased, but one thing stood out that china limits gas driving hours

Gas nears $5. Why aren’t electric vehicles selling in the US?

Electric vehicle sales in the US are set to fall from 1.5 million to 1.2 million this year, according to the International Energy Agency.

news.northeastern.edu

China's gasoline car sales plunge 41.8% in May as combustion era fades

China's domestic sales of traditional fuel passenger vehicles fell to 497,000 units in May, down 357,000 units from a year earlier.

cnevpost.com

America

Top 10 Best-Selling Vehicles in the US
Based on recent annual sales data, the
CarPro
market reports identify the leading models:
Rank - Vehicle Model - Category - Units Sold (Approximate)
1 - Ford F-Series - Full-Size Pickup - 828,000
2 - Chevrolet Silverado - Full-Size Pickup - 558,700
3 - Toyota RAV4 - Compact SUV - 479,200
4 - Honda CR-V - Compact SUV - 403,700
5 - Ram Pickup - Full-Size Pickup - 374,000
6 - GMC Sierra - Full-Size Pickup - 356,200
7 - Toyota Camry - Mid-Size Sedan - 316,100
8 - Toyota Tacoma - Mid-Size Pickup - 274,600
9 - Chevrolet Equinox - Compact SUV - 274,300
10 - Toyota Corolla - Compact Sedan - 248,000

 

[stompandgo]

The vast majority of truck owners do actual Truck Things with their trucks only once or twice a year. Basically it is an idiotic financial decision packaged as a lifestyle choice.

I find it hilarious when the guy who has an F350 to tow a boat twice a year complains about how Kids These Days eat avocado toast.

I do actual truck things every week in my little 4 cylinder turbo truck. I maybe a part of the minority, but it's a pretty big minority.

 

[stompandgo]

I live in a resort area where more than half the houses are second homes used only a few times a year. In nearby Lake Arrowhead, there are multi-million dollar lake front homes that only get used one day a year, usually the Fourth of July. You can tell because they have shutters over the windows. They are third or fourth homes for very wealthy families. If someone wants to buy a truck to tow their boat a few times a year, it's their money and they have a right to do so. Or tow their ATVs to the desert, or their race car to the track, or tow their horses around. Lots of people do those things, even people who live in Los Angeles and Orange County. Just look at the 91 eastbound or the 5 northbound on a Friday night and count the boats, RVs, 5th wheels, etc.

Same here on the Cape. I don't know about half, but a very significant number of the homes are seasonal, either by choice of the owner, or by zoning law. That said, there are 220,000 people that live here, work here or off-Cape, and run businesses here year round. Contractors with trucks are everywhere on the roads here. Many people own boats here. The ramps are crazy on nice weekends. All those boats are towed by trucks. Sure, there's the soccer mom in the King Ranch without a speck of dirt on it that uses it to go to the market every week, but I just don't see the proliferation of that type here. Plenty of lesbians in Subaru's though. NTTAWWT.

 

[jabberwocky]

Most people who drive pickups in the US do so primarily for the image. Sure, if youre a landscaper or need to tow something large, they make sense. That isn't most people. I'm in the building industry and my observation is that higher up field people (project managers, company owners) drive pickups. The actual field guys drive vans. Vans hold just as much stuff, get better mileage and you can lock your stuff up at the end of the day.

Its hard to even get 6.5ft bed trucks anymore; my dad just purchased a new F150 the other week and was bitching that his dealer didn't even have a short cab 6.5ft bed on the lot, because almost nobody buys them. Everyone wants the full 4 door with a short bed because people use them as general purpose family/commuting cars, not trucks. Nobody has made the actual work trucks with a full 8ft bed and single bench for general sale for decades at this point (you can only get them in bulk orders for fleet customers).

 

[kevinmccune]

The vast majority of truck owners do actual Truck Things with their trucks only once or twice a year. Basically it is an idiotic financial decision packaged as a lifestyle choice.

I find it hilarious when the guy who has an F350 to tow a boat twice a year complains about how Kids These Days eat avocado toast.

I use the Dickens out of my "Maverick" even at 28-35 mpg wish it were electric( services costs suck and blow!)

 

[kevinmccune]

Same here on the Cape. I don't know about half, but a very significant number of the homes are seasonal, either by choice of the owner, or by zoning law. That said, there are 220,000 people that live here, work here or off-Cape, and run businesses here year round. Contractors with trucks are everywhere on the roads here. Many people own boats here. The ramps are crazy on nice weekends. All those boats are towed by trucks. Sure, there's the soccer mom in the King Ranch without a speck of dirt on it that uses it to go to the market every week, but I just don't see the proliferation of that type here. Plenty of lesbians in Subaru's though. NTTAWWT.

maybe try a conversion?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Its hard to even get 6.5ft bed trucks anymore; my dad just purchased a new F150 the other week and was bitching that his dealer didn't even have a short cab 6.5ft bed on the lot, because almost nobody buys them. Everyone wants the full 4 door with a short bed because people use them as general purpose family/commuting cars, not trucks. Nobody has made the actual work trucks with a full 8ft bed and single bench for general sale for decades at this point (you can only get them in bulk orders for fleet customers).

What I see is that the people doing actual Truck Things almost never are driving any truck made after about 2010.

What I also see is a large class of suburbanites who "identify" as rural people who drive silly, overpriced pickup trucks as a kind of cultural identification. Which of course they have a right to do that and look stupid. But when their choices screw over others (and they do in so many ways, from endangering other drivers to polluting more to clogging the financial system with 8-year car loans) than you need to give them the stink eye.

Color me judgy but most people who own recreational boats aren't exactly making a super clever financial decision. And it isn't surprising that their financial illiteracy extends to spending ludicrous sums of money on a truck-like vehicle to infrequently tow their other questionable investments.

Back in the day I had multiple friends who were very into to sailing. I like to sail as well and actually know how. What I found was that for most people getting everything organized to get out on the water was something that happened only ten times a year or so -- this is especially true in a decent sized boat that needs several people to sail and handle well. When you added up all of the costs that worked out to about a thousand bucks a day to sail their boats.

 

[kevinmccune]

What I see is that the people doing actual Truck Things almost never are driving any truck made after about 2010.

What I also see is a large class of suburbanites who "identify" as rural people who drive silly, overpriced pickup trucks as a kind of cultural identification. Which of course they have a right to do that and look stupid. But when their choices screw over others (and they do in so many ways, from endangering other drivers to polluting more to clogging the financial system with 8-year car loans) than you need to give them the stink eye.

Color me judgy but most people who own recreational boats aren't exactly making a super clever financial decision. And it isn't surprising that their financial illiteracy extends to spending ludicrous sums of money on a truck-like vehicle to infrequently tow their other questionable investments.

Back in the day I had multiple friends who were very into to sailing. I like to sail as well and actually know how. What I found was that for most people getting everything organized to get out on the water was something that happened only ten times a year or so -- this is especially true in a decent sized boat that needs several people to sail and handle well. When you added up all of the costs that worked out to about a thousand bucks a day to sail their boats.

the financial institutions are the "meth" that drives a lot of this discord,the average young person these days will be a financial "addict" never being free from debt until the grave(IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE LIKE THIS !)

 

[Chargeride]

This is a bit misleading, you can still buy full bed versions of later truck, need to find which versions people are buying.

 

[RunForTheHills]

Color me judgy but most people who own recreational boats aren't exactly making a super clever financial decision. And it isn't surprising that their financial illiteracy extends to spending ludicrous sums of money on a truck-like vehicle to infrequently tow their other questionable investments.

You know what they say about the word "assume". I have known more than a few boat owners, including my late parents, and they managed their finances just fine. And it's not like most of us here don't have an expensive hobby, like putting thousands of dollars into ebikes.

 

[Roamers]

Most people who drive pickups in the US do so primarily for the image.

I know many that drive pickups; only 1 that drives a pickup for image. Badest ass pickup I've seen; he's a Navy SEAL.

my observation is that higher up field people (project managers, company owners) drive pickups

Which is not surprising since a Prius kinda sucks on muddy construction sites.

Nobody has made the actual work trucks with a full 8ft bed and single bench for general sale for decades at this point (you can only get them in bulk orders for fleet customers).

You are so outta touch with reality. I just checked one local dealer. Pretty sure that is an 8' box.

New Vehicles - Kunes Ford of East Moline https://share.google/vnI8jxpiBXF9bgftV

 

[Roamers]

Color me judgy but most people who own recreational boats aren't exactly making a super clever financial decision

It seems everything is based on "financial decision" to you. Sorry to see the $ thing is everything to some.

Which of course they have a right to do that and look stupid. But when their choices screw over others (and they do in so many ways, from endangering other drivers to polluting more to clogging the financial system with 8-year car loans) than you need to give them the stink eye.

Wow.

 

[jabberwocky]

Color me judgy but most people who own recreational boats aren't exactly making a super clever financial decision. And it isn't surprising that their financial illiteracy extends to spending ludicrous sums of money on a truck-like vehicle to infrequently tow their other questionable investments.

My dad is an avid fisherman and has the F150 primarily to tow his bass boat around. Like pretty much all recreation, its not for some financially sound reason. He just loves to fish and can afford to indulge it so he does. I would agree that its not worth going into massive debt you can't afford for a boat (or for any recreational activity), but at the end of the day the point of having money is to spend it on something that brings you enjoyment.

He does tend to go to the dealer and get the cheapest truck they have on the lot. He does not care about fanciness. He would probably get a 2 seater with manual windows and an AM-FM radio if he could.

Which is not surprising since a Prius kinda sucks on muddy construction sites.

The construction sites I visit are either gravel or pavement parking. I don't doubt sometimes they need to drive on dirt or grass, but I visit those same construction sites in my Explorer regularly and would be totally fine in a Prius or any other sedan. Again, nothing wrong with it (its sorta expected), and I'm sure they would tell you that no, they really need that burly pickup because (insert vaguely flimsy reasons) but its primarily for that blue collar image. And yeah, the guys doing the field work are driving beat up 2wd Econoline vans or Transits with roof racks or similar, unless they are doing landscaping or need to tow a trailer.

You are so outta touch with reality. I just checked one local dealer. Pretty sure that is an 8' box.

New Vehicles - Kunes Ford of East Moline https://share.google/vnI8jxpiBXF9bgftV

Thats a fleet F250. You can get the regular cab F150s, but generally have to go to a dealer that handles fleet sales. All 2 door pickups are collectively a few percent of total pickup sales, almost entirely to commercial/municipal customers. My wife handled vehicles for a large commercial construction company for several years and they ran several regular cab F150s as jobsite vehicles and had to purchase them from the one local dealer that had a department that handled fleet customers.