Vado SL 4.0 with a suspension fork?

[sandyman44]

TLDR: Has anyone put a suspension fork on a Vado v1 SL 4.0?

Longer version:
I already have a Creo V1, with futureshock 2.0. I have been using it for quite a lot of UK gravel which involves long , straight, not particularly technical, but very very bumpy rocky descents down hill / moor-land tracks. The 20mm travel futureshock that it has isn't nearly enough to handle those for me. The headset is proprietary (due to the futureshock) so swapping to a suspension fork isn't an option. Adding a suspension stem won't work either - I run a very high stem as I need a very high stack compared to factory (on ANY bike) due to back injury. So I have to be able to use aftermarket high riser solid stems. I already run 47mm gravel tyres at low pressure on 650b's. I've done all that can be with that bike to increase compliance and come to conclusion its not possible to tune it further in the direction I want to .
I already have the Creo SL : I like the SL motor and I have the range extender. So running another SL motor spesh would work fine. I am thinking it might make sense to get a second hand Vado SL v1 4.0 - I understand the 4.0 doesn't have a future shock so has a standard headset... thats the crucial part, swap the fork to a suspension one , which would increase A2C and thus increase stack and decrease head angle, but both of those a good thing for me and my use case. I've done geometry calculations, I think it works. whether I would run the vado with the stock bar, an alt bar like a surly corner, or fully convert it to a gravel flared drop, is a next level of detail question: fork swap is the deal breaker.
and in the "just get a mountain bike" direction: I also already have a 150mm travel full-sus full-fat emtb (not a spesh) and that is "wrong bike" for the type of rides I am talking about. I want light, small motor, good frame load carrying.

thanks

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm surprised the Future Shock doesn't work for you.

 

[sandyman44]

I'm surprised the Future Shock doesn't work for you.

yeah I was disappointed too. It probably helps some for damping on less than perfect road. However, even on firm, it fully compresses under my weight in no time. But on this kind of trail (this one was built 2000 years ago by the romans) , my hands are battered. worse when descending. Hence the conclusion I need a short air fork.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Are you aware the Future Shock can be stiffened with an extra spring?

I ride a Vado SL 4 with a Redshift ShockStop suspension stem. I also inflate my tyres lowly (such as 2.6 bar: am a heavy person; the pressure could be even lower for someone lightweight). Trust me, I often ride terrain similar to yours and need no real suspension. More: I participate in e-gravel races!

How about 10 miles of cobblestone at a high speed?

Sandyman: If you cannot handle the terrain using properly inflated tyres and properly adjusted Future Shock it means you need an e-MTB.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

yeah I was disappointed too. It probably helps some for damping on less than perfect road. However, even on firm, it fully compresses under my weight in no time. But on this kind of trail (this one was built 2000 years ago by the romans) , my hands are battered. worse when descending. Hence the conclusion I need a short air fork.

View attachment 211289

an see why you need front sus! The roman's probably had something similar for their carts! I can't see why front sus wouldn't work, sounds like you've taken into account the change in geo. As a bonus it means you could run a bigger front tyre asa well. Loads of gravel bikes now have 50mm, it seems to becoming a new standard in the more rocky/techy US races and even larger XC tyres 2.4 inch! And with front suspension too, brands like Canyon using DT Swiss short travel 30 to 50mm and Rockshox Rudy Xplr specifically for gravel bikes. Though obviously these are not cheap! - an xc one would probably be a better option if head tube sizing works.

If you go this route definitely stick some photos up here of you and the bike out and about on those ancient roads - is that the Peak district?

 

[Chazmo]

Sandy, what an awesome trail to ride! My Fättie woulod eat that up. Yeah, like Rás said, keep us posted!

 

[sandyman44]

an see why you need front sus! The roman's probably had something similar for their carts! I can't see why front sus wouldn't work, sounds like you've taken into account the change in geo. As a bonus it means you could run a bigger front tyre asa well. Loads of gravel bikes now have 50mm, it seems to becoming a new standard in the more rocky/techy US races and even larger XC tyres 2.4 inch! And with front suspension too, brands like Canyon using DT Swiss short travel 30 to 50mm and Rockshox Rudy Xplr specifically for gravel bikes. Though obviously these are not cheap! - an xc one would probably be a better option if head tube sizing works.

If you go this route definitely stick some photos up here of you and the bike out and about on those ancient roads - is that the Peak district?

Its Salter Fell in the Forest of Bowland. I did it on the creo. Was going very slow by the end as my hands were in intense pain.
Came back from that trip deciding to do "need another bike" research.
Canyon Grizl:ON with Rudy looked possible, until I found they use a non-standard headtube 1 1/2", so I can't get riser stem to work... very few aftermarket stems in this size.

 

[sandyman44]

Are you aware the Future Shock can be stiffened with an extra spring?


I ride a Vado SL 4 with a Redshift ShockStop suspension stem. I also inflate my tyres lowly (such as 2.6 bar: am a heavy person; the pressure could be even lower for someone lightweight). Trust me, I often ride terrain similar to yours and need no real suspension. More: I participate in e-gravel races!

How about 10 miles of cobblestone at a high speed?

Sandyman: If you cannot handle the terrain using properly inflated tyres and properly adjusted Future Shock it means you need an e-MTB.

I did think about the futureshock tweaks but its a 2.0, which I read is not changeable. At that point, I start thinking about other changes....
I also looked at the redshift, but there is no riser option. I need a LOT of rise. I see you have yours below the spacers. I have all spacers, plus a 120mm 35 degree riser stem.

I also have a full fat 150mm travel , 85Nm CX4 EMTB weighing 29kg, it would handle the cobbles great, but would be a bad bike for this ride. there is 30km of road riding either end of the 20km of roman cobbles.
Also your cobbles look less bad than the roman ones...anyway, if it works for you thats great, enjoy your riding.

Anyway can I ask you - as you have a Vado SL 4.0 - are you able to tell me if it does indeed have a standard 1 1/8" headset, so any aftermarket fork to that standard would fit?
I am already familiar with the SQL inner bar ends, so a setup exactly like yours for the "on the hoods" feeling, might well work for me (if I can get hold of a Vado like yours).

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Its Salter Fell in the Forest of Bowland. I did it on the creo. Was going very slow by the end as my hands were in intense pain.
Came back from that trip deciding to do "need another bike" research.
Canyon Grizl:ON with Rudy looked possible, until I found they use a non-standard headtube 1 1/2", so I can't get riser stem to work... very few aftermarket stems in this size.

Forset of Bowland - had to google maps that, long way from down here on Dartmoor! Yeah I use On One swept back bars for a more upright position on my Vado SL 4, plus 44mm WTB Byways for the Devon Lanes & Bridleways, adds a bit of cush, though not enough for long distance on a track like you describe. Most bridleways I divert onto are less than a mile. I had a rigid Cairn Brave Shimano EP6 (UK made bike, Hunt Wheels owned) it had Conti Race Kings 2.2 and was great on the rough. I saw owners living in places like the Highlands or Lake District and swapped in front sus sucessfully.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I did think about the futureshock tweaks but its a 2.0, which I read is not changeable.

The extra springs should be delivered with the e-bike!

Wide, low inflated tyres make a big difference!

Anyway can I ask you - as you have a Vado SL 4.0 - are you able to tell me if it does indeed have a standard 1 1/8" headset, so any aftermarket fork to that standard would fit?

I don't know.

 

[sandyman44]

The extra springs should be delivered with the e-bike!

its not that version of the futureshock. its the 2.0. nothing can be changed. no different springs. I already run 47mm on 650b in order to get bigger tyres. already lower pressure.

I don't know.

is it a normal steerer tube at the top? no futureshock, right?

 

[sandyman44]

Forset of Bowland - had to google maps that, long way from down here on Dartmoor! Yeah I use On One swept back bars for a more upright position on my Vado SL 4, plus 44mm WTB Byways for the Devon Lanes & Bridleways, adds a bit of cush, though not enough for long distance on a track like you describe. Most bridleways I divert onto are less than a mile. I had a rigid Cairn Brave Shimano EP6 (UK made bike, Hunt Wheels owned) it had Conti Race Kings 2.2 and was great on the rough. I saw owners living in places like the Highlands or Lake District and swapped in front sus sucessfully.

I have ridden the Dartmoor military roads as well. I was on my Emtb for that though as was stitching it with some single track with a group all on MTB's.
I had a look into the Cairn models as as well, but there seems to be doubts about the long term of the company, and no stock, so not a good option to look at I think.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I have ridden the Dartmoor military roads as well. I was on my Emtb for that though as was stitching it with some single track with a group all on MTB's.
I had a look into the Cairn models as as well, but there seems to be doubts about the long term of the company, and no stock, so not a good option to look at I think.

Yes it looks like Hunt has shuttered Cairn, certainly for the moment. Hunt themselves, like the industry as a whole, are going through rocky times but big enough to weather it I think. Great bikes though, very sturdy and clever design. Passed my one on to friend who has a back roads commute to Exeter (about 24 miles) a few time a week and he loves it. With the Vado as well I wasn't getting enough use out of the Brave, as it's heavier with a 620wh battery so not as fun/fast on roads. Great on tracks & off road.

That whole North Dartmoor is beautiful and wild. My son did the Ten Tors a couple of years ago and I got used to seeing those military roads at 6am first light on the drop offs!

I keep an eye on Vado SL prices on ebay, in case I see a bargain as a doner/spares bike. Prices fluctuate but you should be able to snag a lightly used one for £1000-£1200, depending where it's located of course. A lot of people bought during the pandemic and then didn't ride much so the mileage and battery cycles can be very low. Some very tempting deals on 5 year old Carbon Expert Creos too- need to stop checking ebay...

 

[sandyman44]

am wondering if spend the £425 on going from a future shock 2.0 to a 3.3 for my creo, as that brings back the option to change to a heavy spring and adds preload washers. £425 is Less than a new bike, but does buy a quite lot of fork, and still only 20mm travel.

 

[mschwett]

i think you should lodge the appropriate complaint with the road builders

 

[sandyman44]

i think you should lodge the appropriate complaint with the road builders

you know monty python "what did the romans ever do for us" scene?

just spotted a vado on ebay....

 

[mschwett]

incidentally… i don’t think any future shock version will get you what you want. i rode a few and found all very similar. they work great on rough paving like chipseal, the pavé of paris roubaix, or for fast descents on small gravel. not for rocks.

 

[sandyman44]

incidentally… i don’t think any future shock version will get you what you want. i rode a few and found all very similar. they work great on rough paving like chipseal, the pavé of paris roubaix, or for fast descents on small gravel. not for rocks.

thanks. offering on ebay for the vado SL in parallel, and pricing rudy forks

 

[Allan47.7339]

TLDR: Has anyone put a suspension fork on a Vado v1 SL 4.0?

The Specialized Diverge uses the same system as Creo 1 and Vado SL 1 and possibly Creo 2 E5 (only). Searching for Diverge suspension forks, saw lots of questions but most replies went off the trail and focused on suspension stems. There may be a nugget in there somewhere. The challenge is the headset bearing sizes they used for the Future Shock system vs everyone else.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

is it a normal steerer tube at the top? no futureshock, right?

A normal steerer tube.