Another new TQ motor: hpr40

[mschwett]

Spot on. There's a kind of puritan thinking with road bike brands, we don't dare go lower, that would be weak, you'll just have to muscle up that hill as God intended...

to be fair, things have changed a LOT. you can go to a bike shop and get a tarmac or aethos with a 50-34 up front and 11-34 in the back in ultegra, dura-ace, some equivalent sram version i'm sure. 1:1 on a super light road bike will get you up a lot of hills, and of course it's pretty rare for a paved road to exceed 10% for any duration and really more like 6% typically, in the states.

that dura-ace is 34:34 off the shelf these days says a lot, 20 years ago that would have been considered weak and unmanly

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Hi ras,I'm writing from Modena, a small Italian city near Bologna.
I would like to underline that when I talk about very steep climbs I am referring to fairly short sections with gradients of 20 to 25percent.
As Yaco wrote, I absolutely don't think that slopes of 30 or even 38percent can be overcome with this engine....at least at my age and with the wattage I can develop.
I follow your forum with interest to understand if anyone has tried to change the praxis crankset or alternatively if it is possible and how a larger cassette would work (for example 42 teeth)

Modena - lovely! Yes your hills sound like mine, under 1km generally but 20 to 25 percent. So currently with the double on the Canyon you've got a 34 x 34T lowest gear or around 25 or 26 gear inches. My Vado Sl has a 36 x 46T, a 1x (single chainwheel) and about 21.5 gear inches. Quite a difference. Depending on the capabilities of the Shimano 105 rear derailleur you might be able to fit an 11- 42 cassette that would work. The other option is something like a GRX derailleur, but I don't know enough about the compatibility of 105 and GRX and 2x versus 1x and with long cage derailleurs and the various brifters. It all gets pretty complicated and specific.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

to be fair, things have changed a LOT. you can go to a bike shop and get a tarmac or aethos with a 50-34 up front and 11-34 in the back in ultegra, dura-ace, some equivalent sram version i'm sure. 1:1 on a super light road bike will get you up a lot of hills, and of course it's pretty rare for a paved road to exceed 10% for any duration and really more like 6% typically, in the states.

that dura-ace is 34:34 off the shelf these days says a lot, 20 years ago that would have been considered weak and unmanly

Yes very true, things have changed. I dread to think what block I raced on in the 80s and yet I don't recall major hardship due to the high gears because I was young and very fit (!!) and of course everyone was doing it. I do remember how remarkable my first mtb felt with its triple chainring and 15 gears (!) I felt I could climb any steep ramp, it really was a revolution having such a low granny gear.

I did think with some direct to consumer/online companies now with their bike configuration pages that gearing changes might be an option, but it seems like it's more handlebars saddles and tyres, from ones Ive looked at and not so much the drive train. Expensive and complex to change drivetrain I suppose. So more off the shelf suit than going to the tailor.

 

[mschwett]

Yes very true, things have changed. I dread to think what block I raced on in the 80s and yet I don't recall major hardship due to the high gears because I was young and very fit (!!) and of course everyone was doing it. I do remember how remarkable my first mtb felt with its triple chainring and 15 gears (!) I felt I could climb any steep ramp, it really was a revolution having such a low granny gear.

I did think with some direct to consumer/online companies now with their bike configuration pages that gearing changes might be an option, but it seems like it's more handlebars saddles and tyres, from ones Ive looked at and not so much the drive train. Expensive and complex to change drivetrain I suppose. So more off the shelf suit than going to the tailor.

true. when i bought my aethos i wanted the 11-34 instead of the 11-30, so it came with that, whether the LBS switched it or specialized did i don't know - you can't order it that way from the website. i'm surprised more DTC bike brands haven't embraced simple changes like that especially when it's within the groupsets' stock choices.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I did think with some direct to consumer/online companies now with their bike configuration pages that gearing changes might be an option, but it seems like it's more handlebars saddles and tyres, from ones Ive looked at and not so much the drive train. Expensive and complex to change drivetrain I suppose. So more off the shelf suit than going to the tailor.

Don't think I've ever seen gearing options on an ebike product page. Too bad, cuz most seem to come geared for flat topography.

One reason for DTC brands to shy away from gearing options: Having to deal with the fallout when buyers pick the wrong option. In a bike shop, you can go over the options and steer the buyer toward the best fit.

 

[Art Deco]

Don't think I've ever seen gearing options on an ebike product page. Too bad, cuz most seem to come geared for flat topography.

One reason for DTC brands to shy away from gearing options: Having to deal with the fallout when buyers pick the wrong option. In a bike shop, you can go over the options and steer the buyer toward the best fit.

Indeed, some LBS can and will. But you have to know enough to ask about it, and many that handle mostly ebikes don't know anyway, sadly.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Indeed, some LBS can and will. But you have to know enough to ask about it, and many that handle mostly ebikes don't know anyway, sadly.

Alas, back in the Late Bronze Age, when I was but a skinny young man on a Raleigh road bike, you could walk into almost any LBS with a reasonable expectation that everyone on the staff knew more than all but the savviest customers. Nowadays you're just as likely to get someone who makes stuff up with great authority cuz they're incapable of saying, "I don't know, but I'll ask."

So you're right, getting good advice on personalized gearing would be pretty hit or miss these days.

 

[Catalyzt]

It is strange how modern e-bike weight, torque, power delivery and gear choices interact; it just produces some unexpected situations.

There is one ascent at the end of a steep hill-- it's probably only 10%-- on my shortest fitness ride that is a totally different experience on the 50 nm 36 pound Grizl:ON 7 than the 40 nm 47 pound Motobecane eMTB.

The problem is the same: There's a stop sign before the ascent, so you have to slow down first, which means gearing down on either bike as you descend the hill that precedes it.

On the Moto, if you get it wrong,and don't downshift soon enough, sure, you pay for it, which means you have to work a lot harder to get up the hill, and the downshifting is painful and hard on the drivetrain. If you get it right, it's easier shifting and a moderate amount of effort to climb the hill in a lower gear; I got used to that pretty quickly.

On the Grizl, if you make the same mistake? It can't even climb the hill; I have to stop, ride to the bottom, and try again! (This has happened twice.) But it I get it right, however, I fly up the hill with very little leg power, the bike demolishes the hill with little effort and does not require using Sprint or Turbo, way easier than the Moto.

The Grizl ON CF 7 has 44t at the chainring and 11-42 (11 gears) at the cluster.

To get 10-44 (12 gears) at the cluster with the same chainring, I'd have had to spend $2,000 more for the Grizl: ON CF9. (I'd also be able to drop one pound.)

If it were Burger King, and I could 'have it my way' as the old advertising jingle said, sure, I would have loved to order the CF 7 with something crazy like 9-46. But you can't even get Canyon on the phone! They sent me an email announcing the bike was ready for pickup after I'd been riding it for about two months. So I'm sure not providing customized drive trains saves them a ton. It felt like there were about seven people running the entire company.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Where have you been lately @Catalyzt? You seem to be AWOL for a long time! I was worrying about you!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

If it were Burger King, and I could 'have it my way' as the old advertising jingle said, sure, I would have loved to order the CF 7 with something crazy like 9-46. But you can't even get Canyon on the phone! They sent me an email announcing the bike was ready for pickup after I'd been riding it for about two months. So I'm sure not providing customized drive trains saves them a ton. It felt like there were about seven people running the entire company.

That's what worries me about DTC especially with an e bike, the after sales/warranty service. They seem efficient and I suppose it's not a big deal re boxing the bike and sending back, just seems more of a faff then taking to local bike shop and talking in person. The lack of communication would drive me nuts though. Nor are all LBS's saints, had my share of grumpy or disinterested bike mechanics in the past.

 

[mschwett]

That's what worries me about DTC especially with an e bike, the after sales/warranty service. They seem efficient and I suppose it's not a big deal re boxing the bike and sending back, just seems more of a faff then taking to local bike shop and talking in person. The lack of communication would drive me nuts though. Nor are all LBS's saints, had my share of grumpy or disinterested bike mechanics in the past.

i think it’s a huge deal! what a pain in the ass to ship a bike multiple times to fix something under warranty, not to mention keeping a huge box around. i don’t have space for that nonsense. i don’t know about other countries but it’s expensive to ship a bike here, and it can’t possibly be faster than getting it fixed down the street.

i wouldn’t buy a DTC bike unless it was very inexpensive or i knew there was a way to get service on all parts locally. i think the latter is generally, but not always true. much bigger issue for e-bikes than regular bikes.

 

[Art Deco]

i think it’s a huge deal! what a pain in the ass to ship a bike multiple times to fix something under warranty, not to mention keeping a huge box around. i don’t have space for that nonsense. i don’t know about other countries but it’s expensive to ship a bike here, and it can’t possibly be faster than getting it fixed down the street.

i wouldn’t buy a DTC bike unless it was very inexpensive or i knew there was a way to get service on all parts locally. i think the latter is generally, but not always true. much bigger issue for e-bikes than regular bikes.

With today's chaotic supply lines, it's even difficult for a LBS to get some parts for the bikes they do sell; getting parts to service a DTC bike is probably a very poor business decision. I certainly wouldn't do it if I had a bike shop (or appliance store, or car dealership, or anything like that where service might be required ).

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

i think it’s a huge deal! what a pain in the ass to ship a bike multiple times to fix something under warranty, not to mention keeping a huge box around. i don’t have space for that nonsense. i don’t know about other countries but it’s expensive to ship a bike here, and it can’t possibly be faster than getting it fixed down the street.

i wouldn’t buy a DTC bike unless it was very inexpensive or i knew there was a way to get service on all parts locally. i think the latter is generally, but not always true. much bigger issue for e-bikes than regular bikes.

I'm with you. Wouldn't consider DTC — not even Canyon.