Why does The 2024 Orbea Gain M30 X20 Suck, Compared to My 2019 Orbea Gain M20 X35?

[BJ1]

I've had a 1st Gen Gain M20 for 5 years and it's been a great ride, except for the internal battery is only good for 27 miles fully charged....which means only using the assist sparingly and mostly on the largest hills here in the White Mtns. of NH and combined with my 225lbs. I'm lucky to get 18 miles using the assist and 32 miles if I ride no assist 50% of the ride........... Yes I have a Range Extender, so 53 miles combined range....when its working! Its been repaired, updated and even replaced and it still only works down to about 70% (from 200%) and then cuts out/off........its actually spent more time being diagnosed, repaired and warranted than actually on the bike!

Anyway I saw the 3rd Gen Orbea Gain advertised a stronger motor and much higher range than my 1st Generation Gain so I decided to get the new 2024 Gain M30 last May 2024 and it's been nothing but disappointing and its been....and still is in the shop. It cuts out/cant decide if its assisting or not on me going up our steepest hills and even when its working it just isnt the same level of assist as my 2019 Gain!

The shop cant duplicate the sputtering on/off at low cadence that I get when riding out here climbing our hills below 5mph and it's not throwing any error codes so they cant help and dont know what to do.

In trying to research the problem myself I've read the new 3rd Gen Gain Makes You Have To Work For The Assist!!, a supposedly more natural ride experience...... but for me, a senior rider who been riding decades and even now puts in 150-200 mile per week the new bike isnt doing me any favors.....unless its pancake flat I really dont feel much of any assist and there's little to no difference between assist modes/levels that I can tell!

Thats a huge difference compared to my 2019 Gain M20, you can really feel the assist and the increase of boost as you increase modes/levels of assist!

Am I the only one with this complaint with the 3rd gen Gains?? Has anybody got experience returning a new bike back to the shop for a refund or replacement bike??

 

[Vamos]

Sorry you are having trouble. The 2024 is markedly different from the 2019. As you know the x35 supplies a given amount of power no matter what the rider is generating, whereas the x20 gives a percentage of the power that the rider is generating and never more than 100%of the rider's power. This difference makes the x20 seem less powerful. I think Specialized realized this and their algorithm for the SL motor doubles the rider's output, so it will supply more than the watts that the rider is generating.
Do you think that the trouble with long climbs at a slow pace may be caused by the motor overheating?

As to if you could return it, most shops clearly state their return policy on their web site. Some have rules that make it very hard to return and others have better policies.

 

[mschwett]

I've had a 1st Gen Gain M20 for 5 years and it's been a great ride, except for the internal battery is only good for 27 miles fully charged....which means only using the assist sparingly and mostly on the largest hills here in the White Mtns. of NH and combined with my 225lbs. I'm lucky to get 18 miles using the assist and 32 miles if I ride no assist 50% of the ride........... Yes I have a Range Extender, so 53 miles combined range....when its working! Its been repaired, updated and even replaced and it still only works down to about 70% (from 200%) and then cuts out/off........its actually spent more time being diagnosed, repaired and warranted than actually on the bike!

Anyway I saw the 3rd Gen Orbea Gain advertised a stronger motor and much higher range than my 1st Generation Gain so I decided to get the new 2024 Gain M30 last May 2024 and it's been nothing but disappointing and its been....and still is in the shop. It cuts out/cant decide if its assisting or not on me going up our steepest hills and even when its working it just isnt the same level of assist as my 2019 Gain!

The shop cant duplicate the sputtering on/off at low cadence that I get when riding out here climbing our hills below 5mph and it's not throwing any error codes so they cant help and dont know what to do.

In trying to research the problem myself I've read the new 3rd Gen Gain Makes You Have To Work For The Assist!!, a supposedly more natural ride experience...... but for me, a senior rider who been riding decades and even now puts in 150-200 mile per week the new bike isnt doing me any favors.....unless its pancake flat I really dont feel much of any assist and there's little to no difference between assist modes/levels that I can tell!

Thats a huge difference compared to my 2019 Gain M20, you can really feel the assist and the increase of boost as you increase modes/levels of assist!

Am I the only one with this complaint with the 3rd gen Gains?? Has anybody got experience returning a new bike back to the shop for a refund or replacement bike??

definitely something wrong with the bike.

have you tried it with both assist settings turned all the way up? at 100/100 you should absolutely feel a LOT of assist riding uphill, although below 5mph the total power output is going to be low. mount your phone on the bars, start the mysmartbike app (or orbea rebadge equivalent!), put it in the highest assist settings, and ride while watching the screen (swipe over a few times) which shows your power and the motor power. you should see 200+w of output from the motor even if you're only pedaling at 100w.

@Vamos it is not true that there's a 1:1 limit on rider power to motor power on the x20.

 

[Vamos]

definitely something wrong with the bike.

have you tried it with both assist settings turned all the way up? at 100/100 you should absolutely feel a LOT of assist riding uphill, although below 5mph the total power output is going to be low. mount your phone on the bars, start the mysmartbike app (or orbea rebadge equivalent!), put it in the highest assist settings, and ride while watching the screen (swipe over a few times) which shows your power and the motor power. you should see 200+w of output from the motor even if you're only pedaling at 100w.

@Vamos it is not true that there's a 1:1 limit on rider power to motor power on the x20.

I guess I thought that 100% was 100%. What am I missing?

 

[mschwett]

I guess I thought that 100% was 100%. What am I missing?

100% is 100% of the possible assist. just like specialized, that isn’t equal to rider power watt for watt. specialized usually publishes the assist factor for their bikes, while mahle doesn’t (probably due to the nature of the hub drive which is affected by speed) but the concept is identical.

on 100% my x20 bikes only requires me to pedal with around 100w to get 200+w of assist. just take a look at the app while riding.

 

[Vamos]

100% is 100% of the possible assist. just like specialized, that isn’t equal to rider power watt for watt. specialized usually publishes the assist factor for their bikes, while mahle doesn’t (probably due to the nature of the hub drive which is affected by speed) but the concept is identical.

on 100% my x20 bikes only requires me to pedal with around 100w to get 200+w of assist. just take a look at the app while riding.

Thank you for the explanation. Mahle does poor a job with their documentation.