Which Ebikeling kit? 1200W DD or 500W Geared?

[grover]

first of all.... yes I will only be getting an ebikeling kit, because of a few reasons, but mainly because they are only an hour drive from my home. That being said I am looking at the 500W geared for my wife. I have the 1200W DD for myself, and just recently installed it. I am very happy with the quality of the unit, and enough power for me to go up the hills around my house.
DD, as we know, has its disadvantages, such as torque, and freewheel, compared to the geared. For my wife, she wants something closer to a smoother pedal assist, and likes to pedal without power at times, however I want her to be able to tackle the hills, and be able to throttle only on the flats.
My question is, since I already know the 1200W is sufficient for our hills, would the 500W geared be comparable for the same hills? I understand that you don't know the terrain in our area, but from anyone's experience; what difference would you see between the 500W (36v) geared and the 1200W (48v) DD? BTW - my wife is not looking for speed, and doesn't want to put effort into peddling up hill.

 

[maggiewu]

If you are dealing with hills then geared but if you want just speed and not much hauling or hill climbing then go with direct drive one

 

[harryS]

If you're only an hour from the warehouse, there are not many hills in Cook, Lake, Dupage, Will, McHenry, Kane, etc.

I've always liked the ebikeling 500W geared drives. I want a lighter wheel. I like the bike to coast. I like pedal assist with the option of throttle, I still ride my original ebikeling conversion from 2015. I gave a second 500W motor/bike to my sister. I have a third motor as a spare. The last kit was the LED version and was only $179 in 2019. Glad I bought it then. Price is much higher.

Here's the problem I had with ebikeling geared motor and LCD display. It's an SW900 and other companies have been able to make it work with geared motors, I have written to the guy and ask why his doesn't work with geared motors. He offered me a new controller, but it ws a design issue. The controller lacks a speed sensor, so it won't show speed on the LCD when coasting, unlike your 1200W kit, where the can measure the speed off the motor, If yiu can't show the speed right, the odometer is off. Sure, one can get a $10 bike computer that is more accurate,

In addition, it has 5 levels of pedal assist, but all five seem to take the bike to 18-20 mph. The lowest levels should max out at 12 mph and each higher level go successively faster. Perhaps if I had spent more time tuning it, I could been satisfied, but I had other controllers/LCD's around and I used what I know works. My SW900 stuff sits unused. It's 2021. Perhaps he corrected his LCD and PAS problem on those kits. By the way, the simple LED version with 3 PAS levels has a much better PAS response.

To conclude, I've been out of the ebikeling loop for a few years, so maybe the above is all moot. He does have newer dispalys. I still would prefer the geared motor.

 

[grover]

Thanks for the input. I live in Valparaiso, IN, in an area that is more hilly than any other in the county.
I was actually thinking about getting the 1200W so I have a 48v/36v controller, then getting the spare 500W (36v) geared, so we have both with a spare... since it is front on both, it would be easy to change out - unbolt the torque arms, disconnect cable and switch it out.
I think I might try out the LED,I, tried my 1200W yesterday, before the snow, and it you are right about those PAS levels.
The 1200W DD, even though it tackled the hills without an issue, it didn't seem as "smooth" as I would think a geared would be.

 

[harryS]

Valparaiso to Ebikeling's suburban Chicago warehouse in an hour?. Zoom zoom! By the way, that was why I bought my kits from him. It's chinese, but stocked locally.

I haven't really stressed my 500W motor on hills, as we're flat. My sister's husband has more hills in Southern WI though, and he's much heavier. Seems to be happy with it, although I put a 48V battery on it.

 

[EMGX]

first of all.... yes I will only be getting an ebikeling kit, because of a few reasons, but mainly because they are only an hour drive from my home. That being said I am looking at the 500W geared for my wife. I have the 1200W DD for myself, and just recently installed it. I am very happy with the quality of the unit, and enough power for me to go up the hills around my house.
DD, as we know, has its disadvantages, such as torque, and freewheel, compared to the geared. For my wife, she wants something closer to a smoother pedal assist, and likes to pedal without power at times, however I want her to be able to tackle the hills, and be able to throttle only on the flats.
My question is, since I already know the 1200W is sufficient for our hills, would the 500W geared be comparable for the same hills? I understand that you don't know the terrain in our area, but from anyone's experience; what difference would you see between the 500W (36v) geared and the 1200W (48v) DD? BTW - my wife is not looking for speed, and doesn't want to put effort into peddling up hill.

Do you know what the internal gear reduction is on the 500w motor you are considering? I think a typical range is from 4:1 to 5:1. I have a 48v 500w 48v geared hub motor that the seller told me was 4.5:1. I need to do some testing on the hilly roads here to see what it can do.

edit:
it's working great for me even on steep inclines, very pleased for a budget $280 kit

 

[grover]

Actually 1hr. 8min. to the Fillmore St. in Chicago location - which I think they moved to?
Anyway... I think I will put the 48v to the 500W, I believe that wouldn't be a problem from what I have read.
The 1200W DD without program mod, I was at the limited setting to 28 mph PAS and the 20 mph.
Do you think the 500W with modifying the program setting would bring the PAS and/or throttle above 20 mph with 48v?

 

[indianajo]

DD 1000 w will get me up hills at my gross weight (320 with groceries) but uses a lot of watthours doing it. DD drags unpowered like I was in 2 higher sprockets than I actually was. Ebikeling geared hub motor 2017 was fine, had a life on the plastic gears of about 4500 miles in my unit. Pity they don't sell 48 v geared anymore, that is what I had. I used the same 48 v 17.5 ah battery on both units. Ebikeling 1300 w geared used to red light & cut out on the last couple of hills of my 27 mile commute to summer camp. The same battery on a Mac12 500 w geared motor now gets me further with more hills, 30 miles, and arrives @ about 46 v. More hills, less Hwy 3 footage on my new route. Either geared motor could start me at max loaded weight on the ruling 15% grade on my commute route. I never stall tested the 1000 w DD motor on the steep grade.
Ebikeling controller 2017 had horrid PAS, minimum speed PAS1 11 mph and minimum acceleration 500 W. That is too dangerous on Ste Hwy 3 which has 6" deep trenches between the berm and the main lane. I don't ride in the main lane, the dump trucks don't give an inch. If a dump truck hits you,the operating company goes bankrupt, the lessor still gets paid for the trucks, and my heirs win the $20000 minimum insurance, the telephone, desk and the filing cabinet. The new corporation will operate in a week with the same trucks drivers & management. The ebikeling 2017 display was inaccurate, about 30% high on speed & distance, read in KM, and stopped reading speed when the motor was off downhill. It also fogged up from rain so I pitched it.
At least the ebikeling controller had brake handle cutoffs. The lunabike controller for the Mac12 has no inputs for brake handles, PAS magnet ring, or output for display. Lunabike is no longer selling 36v or 48v products, they were all 52 volt last month.
BTW I was able to pedal the worn out ebikeling motor 1/3 way out to camp and back home again without drag. It just couldn't be pulled backwards. I had the Mac12 kit already in the garage. If I hadn't had to make a new mount for the lunabike controller which had to be 3' from the motor, I could have swapped over in one afternoon. Making a new mount took one more afternoon.

 

[AHicks]

Another vote for the geared 500, and I would go 48v.

I would track down a kit that uses a KT controller and display. Have had several now, and they've totally spoiled me.....

 

[AHicks]

If you're only an hour from the warehouse, there are not many hills in Cook, Lake, Dupage, Will, McHenry, Kane, etc.

I've always liked the ebikeling 500W geared drives. I want a lighter wheel. I like the bike to coast. I like pedal assist with the option of throttle, I still ride my original ebikeling conversion from 2015. I gave a second 500W motor/bike to my sister. I have a third motor as a spare. The last kit was the LED version and was only $179 in 2019. Glad I bought it then. Price is much higher.

Here's the problem I had with ebikeling geared motor and LCD display. It's an SW900 and other companies have been able to make it work with geared motors, I have written to the guy and ask why his doesn't work with geared motors. He offered me a new controller, but it ws a design issue. The controller lacks a speed sensor, so it won't show speed on the LCD when coasting, unlike your 1200W kit, where the can measure the speed off the motor, If yiu can't show the speed right, the odometer is off. Sure, one can get a $10 bike computer that is more accurate,

In addition, it has 5 levels of pedal assist, but all five seem to take the bike to 18-20 mph. The lowest levels should max out at 12 mph and each higher level go successively faster. Perhaps if I had spent more time tuning it, I could been satisfied, but I had other controllers/LCD's around and I used what I know works. My SW900 stuff sits unused. It's 2021. Perhaps he corrected his LCD and PAS problem on those kits. By the way, the simple LED version with 3 PAS levels has a much better PAS response.

To conclude, I've been out of the ebikeling loop for a few years, so maybe the above is all moot. He does have newer dispalys. I still would prefer the geared motor.

Harry, I've dealt with that speed sensor issue successfully. If you'd like to revisit, be happy to go through it.

 

[grover]

AHicks,
I'd be interested! What display unit do you have? Do you have a link to the post?

 

[AHicks]

AHicks,
I'd be interested! What display unit do you have? Do you have a link to the post?

Nothing to do with the display. It's doesn't care where the speed signal info comes from, as long as it's getting one. It's about the installation of an inexpensive external speed sensor (the kind that uses a magnet placed on a spoke), and replacing the speed signal coming from the motor (the motor that stops when you are coasting), with the signal that comes from the external speed sensor - that's supplying a signal if the bike is moving, Either under power, or while coasting.

 

[harryS]

Harry, I've dealt with that speed sensor issue successfully. If you'd like to revisit, be happy to go through it.

It's not a KT controller. The Ebikeling box has no inputs for a speed sensor. I went thru all the un-used solder pads on the controller board trying to see if connecting a live speed signal would show on the LCD. None worked. It may have been designed only for a DD motor,

 

[AHicks]

It's not a KT controller. The Ebikeling box has no inputs for a speed sensor. I went thru all the un-used solder pads on the controller board trying to see if connecting a live speed signal would show on the LCD. None worked. It may have been designed only for a DD motor,

I would be looking for the speed sensor wire coming from the motor (the part time one), leading to the controller. Find an easy place to cut the wire coming from the motor and supply the wire leading to the controller with the external speed pick up pulses. I borrowed the power to run the external sensor from the cadence sensor, splicing into those, so they power both the cadence sensor AND the external speed sensor. Works like a charm.....

My MAC 12t powered RAD City has been working like this for years now....

 

[harryS]

AHicks, I said there there is no connector for a speed sensor on my ebikeling controllers. Not on the six pin molex, and no discrete connector,

There is no speed sensor inside my ebikeling geared motors. Four of them.

 

[AHicks]

AHicks, I said there there is no connector for a speed sensor on my ebikeling controllers. Not on the six pin molex, and no discrete connector,

There is no speed sensor inside my ebikeling geared motors. Four of them.

So I'm left wondering where you display is getting it's signal when the motor is under power/running? That speed signal is coming from somewhere, right?

Are these sensored motors, or no?

Just to confirm, the 6 pin Molex connector is the one on the motor?

If so, and you are running non sensored motors, you would have the 3 phase wires, a hot, a ground, and what is the function of that 6th wire?

 

[harryS]

When a sensored motor is running, the controller is reading the hall sensors and can calculate the wheel speed. True for either direct drive or geared. When the latter starts coasting, no motor, no speed info, You need a speed sensor for geared motors, Set your KT P2 parameter to zero, You will see this effect, Unplug your speed sensor if you can, and you still see the speed when the motor runs.

I was convinced my ebikeling controller had an open input for a speed sensor on the circuit board, but after some fruitless trail/error probes of the unused solder pads, I gave up. As you know, controllers are not that expensive, and the KT units are pretty well documented and perform well.

 

[AHicks]

Well, then I guess all hub motors are not created equal (as I had assumed). The MAC has a white wire coming from it, dedicated to the purpose of feeding a speed signal to the controller, and that wire would go dead if there was no power to the motor, thus making my solution not that hard to figure out.

If the controller is using a hall sensor pulse for a speed signal, trying to figure out where that was being done would be WAY beyond anything I would ever attempt.....

Even this newer Bafang Ultra mid drive bike has an external sensor on it. That said, our latest bike (arriving just a couple of days ago) is equipped with a 500w Bafang hub, there is NO external sensor, and the speedo works fine. Lishui system there, with a KT system on it's way to replace it.... -Al