What is History to You?

duggie

Active Member
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United Kingdom
I have a constant deep interest in history. I don't just mean kings, queens, romans, I mean the ordinary little stuff like the table I am sat at which someone in the 1950s bought, or who laid the bricks in the wall I am sat next to. Are they still alive? Who were they? What were they like? That there was all this life going on before I came into being, and one day so shall I too go and others live on behind me.

Then there is history like the dinosaurs having walked this earth for 150 million years, and mankind has only been around for 1 million years. And on the hills and moors around where I live there is evidence of ancient settlements and human activity. What was the family like who lived on the hills 50,000 years ago? Did the little girl play and look at daisies?

History is very profound and real. It makes me feel alive such that, by contrast, mostly I am in some kind of stupor when I just am going about ordinary life. There is something in this but I can't just say what it is. History holds something. Perhaps something to do with a level of consciousness, a sobering collecting of ones self and existence, a re-framing of one's situation. It is a work in progress.

How do other people regard history?
 
I am across the pond. I loved the book American Nations. Obviously people have been here for many thousands of years who worked in harmony with natural forces. In what places and from what circumstances people arrived the initial conditions made all the difference in what they became. The first cowboys were in fact Indians. The Russian Empire extended to the Spanish Empire in California. The people who faced 500 years of brutal religious wars in Europe gave up fighting and became the diversity tolerant trading merchants who settled New York, New Amsterdam. Spanish was spoken in California two generations before English at Plymouth Rock. The fist people to arrive here had amazing technology that they used to wipe out all of the mega fauna such as giant sloths. We are not capable of reproducing their tech. Some stone blades would extend wider than your hand is long and are still sharper than a cosmetic surgeon's scalpel even after thousands of years.
 
I am across the pond. I loved the book American Nations. Obviously people have been here for many thousands of years who worked in harmony with natural forces. In what places and from what circumstances people arrived the initial conditions made all the difference in what they became. The first cowboys were in fact Indians. The Russian Empire extended to the Spanish Empire in California. The people who faced 500 years of brutal religious wars in Europe gave up fighting and became the diversity tolerant trading merchants who settled New York, New Amsterdam. Spanish was spoken in California two generations before English at Plymouth Rock. The fist people to arrive here had amazing technology that they used to wipe out all of the mega fauna such as giant sloths. We are not capable of reproducing their tech. Some stone blades would extend wider than your hand is long and are still sharper than a cosmetic surgeon's scalpel even after thousands of years.
Yes. You wrote: 'the initial conditions made all the difference in what they became.'. I wonder a lot over that. I wonder if i went back in time 400 years, would I be the same person I am now? Or can I only exist as I am now in my present circumstances? If I went back in time and found myself in a situation like my present, say something nice like Little House on the Prairie', I can imagine that I'd be the same. The situation would have to be the same as my present, for even in today's age, in a different situation, i would probably have to be different to as i am.

I went to Pompeii. We got on a tour and then after that we wandered on our own around the quieter outskirts. It was pretty much the same as where i live now. I knew that I could be able to fit in straight away. This made a starker connection for me between the ages. Similarly, I can imagine living in the future, maybe 2000 years from now. No difference (given the same living circumstances...nice and civilized).

But like it or not this is my age where I will live and die, just as it was for them, and those in the future.

So? So what is the lesson, if there is one? Well, I think there is a message, and maybe it is that message which holds my fascination with history: the present is my age, I am alive now and will soon die, and that will be it forever. So what should I do with my few remaining years? How can my remaining years be best spent? How can they be worst spent? What course should I set? I think it is like the same as when some one has cancer scare of something and they suddenly see differently and live differently. Invariably they give up work. So perhaps this is the message of history, without having the cancer scare.....it shocks you into the present. You then make choices for your self, not so much for the economy. Of course tv producers, for instance, will have guidelines about how to and how not to sow the idea of death, and therefore living. And this is what we are up against, perhaps, an ideology imparted to us without our consent... a stupidity. If I hold history in my head I am able to transcend the stupidity, to trump the ideology and think what is best for ME. Perhaps this is the main reason for my interest in history. Perhaps history is an escape from ideologically held beliefs that rob us of our true selves. Could, therefore, history set us free?
 
It is funny that we think that we are somehow superior to people of the past. How is it superior to buy a plastic spoon from 1/2 around the globe when in the past you would make your own out of wood. Which is better for the planet? Which is more satisfying and autonomous? There is greater inequality now that at any other time and our ethos of putting profit first is melting polar ice. A Roman from the edge of the Empire as a slave could have a son on the Senate in one generation. There are better life ways. People in Tasmania had the most minimal material culture and spend most of the time singing together. They were not possessed by possessions, they were free. They didn't have gardens because they lived in a garden.
 
The idiocy of looking at manufactured interpretations of histories as truths regarding the noble past savagery and ignoble present savagery always amuses me.
 
I was not born into a world that I was suited for. It was a world of route memorization, long division and spelling, staying between the lines. It was not a world where creativity was valued. This era is much more suited to me. I am able to do things that the people prepared, groomed and rewarded in that world can never do. A guy's bike motor disintegrated. No bike shop in two well populated and bike friendly counties would touch it. Then he found me. I had it done in three days with new parts. I also make artistic performance bikes that do not look at all electric. That job did not exist in that former world of gas guzzlers, typewriters and time cards. I haven't used an alarm clock in three years.
 
Fascinating topic. I think about that stuff all the time-- like, our house was built in 1962 and we bought it in 1997. We may reach the point where we are the people who lived in it the longest-- that is true of the apartment in New York where I grew up, where mom lived for over half a century. Sometimes I'll wonder, was I the first person to drop acid in this house? (Scary I was still doing that when I moved here!)

I remember when the trails I ride were actual roads. I moved to L.A. in 1991, so I did drive Mt. Hollywood and Vista Del Valle drive a few times before they were closed-- thankfully, though I didn't think so at the time-- to auto traffic. But what were those roads like after they were built? And I can't find out anything about Brand Park Motorway's origins. Did cars ever drive up that?! What were these neighborhood like? The view from Mt. Verdugo?

And yes, I do think about the guy who built the house, the roads, what their lives were like, too. One fascinating bit of trivia: My cousin transferred some old 16mm footage from the early 1930s-- Grandpa was a film buff. And he did crazy things, too-- like just set the camera on a tripod in Rockefeller Center and film people walking down the street! The footage is SO amazing. (My dad and my aunt playing in a crib!)

He also filmed a lot of his business meetings, and one thing really, really struck me: People were so happy! Okay, they always transfer 16mm at the wrong speed, so everyone's moving faster and seems really animated. And I'm sure he was filming important occasions-- openings of a new laboratory or company division. But I cannot believe the smiles on peoples in faces-- constantly-- as they are walking around in suits. You see it in the field, too-- he worked in communications, and filmed guys putting up these towers with antennas. Their attitude is relentlessly upbeat in a way that's hard to describe.

It was a different America-- between the wars, and after the first "big one," everyone thought we'd licked the bad guys for good. We really didn't have a sense of the damage we were doing to the air and water, or how we'd slaughtered native Americans-- there was no mass communication. It wasn't like today, when you will kind of go a bit crazy if you try to repress all that, where the deniers often have kind of a brittle hysteria. People really didn't know if no one taught them, or they couldn't find the books on the shelf, or those books weren't in the library, and had no way to find out.

And frankly, that's kind of scary to think about. How genuinely happy people were as they were setting the stage for what's happening today. But of course that's not the whole story at all. People in Grandpa's socioeconomic group didn't work nearly as long hours as someone from the same demographic would today. Their standard of living was crazy high by today's standards. Most of the time-- except in war years, or other emergencies-- everyone came home at 5:00. The idea of working through vacations or forced overtime, those were problems for people who lived in poverty.

Above all, what it probably was? The sense that things were getting better, that the industrial age would lift everyone out of misery and suffering. It was possible at least for some people to believe that in a way that I don't think is possible now.

I was not born into a world that I was suited for. It was a world of route memorization, long division and spelling, staying between the lines. It was not a world where creativity was valued. This era is much more suited to me. I am able to do things that the people prepared, groomed and rewarded in that world can never do. A guy's bike motor disintegrated. No bike shop in two well populated and bike friendly counties would touch it. Then he found me. I had it done in three days with new parts. I also make artistic performance bikes that do not look at all electric. That job did not exist in that former world of gas guzzlers, typewriters and time cards. I haven't used an alarm clock in three years.

I've thought about this as well. I think I was generally born into the right place and time for my skill set. I think I've got two decades on you, Pedal, so I was in my 20s, and lost in my own little world, when you were a student and not really aware of what it was like for people who were younger. But I do know that my mother, who worked in learning disabilities, started being really appalled by excessive student workload and mindless busywork students were subjected to even in the 80s. So, had I been born earlier-- in the 40s-- I probably would have been miserable, and if I'd been your age, I might have had a bad stretch as well.

When I look at history, I guess I'm always struck by how wrong we've been about... well, everything. It seems like nothing we tell young people is true. Some of it, we lie deliberately, but usually we're just completely clueless. Like people telling me, "Don't be an English major! You'll never get a job!" I left college in 1980 with an English major (half of my double), right into a recession... but because my grammar was good and I could type over 80 WPM, and word processing became a critical skill I never had trouble finding a job. Ever. I basically was never completely out of work for more than a month or two here or there for 40 years. (Or when I was in college or grad school.)
 
After reading the above posts, I find it a relief that other people have thoughts I can 'sit with' and which echo my own.

These history thoughts reach out to touch on other aspects of my life. Take my working life, for instance. I left school into a recession of the 80s. I was too young to know it at the time, but I had no chance, not without an inside track. It wasn't just a slow down, it was industries shutting down wholesale for good. But it made me begin to think about me being the master of my destiny rather than just following a well-worn path, and this, I believe, set all this, like my thinking on this thread, in train.

I couldn't get anywhere career-wise (eventually I worked on my own and was able to scrape by), and I came to the conclusion that the best reward would not be via money, it would be by having time, time to spend with my child, time to spend with my dear dear girlfriend/partner of decades. Time to travel, time to think, time to take it all in, time to be conscious. And even with doing this rather than the distraction from being alive which work can require, i wonder at how fast time has passed and I'm so glad i was made redundant in the 80 as i left education into the world of work. For me to be so acutely and chronically conscious of the passing of time (my time, my life) is my personal history, my book, as i like to think of it, hopefully a book rich in interesting chapters. I feel lucky. Somewhere along the line I was liberated. Somewhere along the line I was shocked out of the sleepwalk. I had to think for myself. But always I came to realize was that everything had to be weighed against history, against mortality, to be sure it made sense, lest my life be wasted, be missed, be slept through.

And so one thing leads to another, the tentacles of what history sets in train. I begin to notice more around me, notice it more intensley, more real, and like a Russian doll it seems not to end.....the clay of my coffee mug, the steel of the gas fire, existance, iron and clay created in an ancient star. And so these ideas and thoughts take me away from day-to-day living which I observe because i feel I cannot participate as that would be to give up too much.

There is something great for me in all this. I'm on a good thing. I am not the only one by any means, and this has been going on in ancient Greece and beyond.....the critics, haha, or whatever they were called. They were called something like that. They were hippy types who believed less was better. The critics...haha.
 
The Cynics! Anyway, I've been thinking a bit more about what i was writing and i think i was driving at that history and all it throws up sort of takes you out of your daily ordinary as a stark reminder, and i think this holds you in a sort of conscious sate different to the daily ordinary of life and living, but more than this, that history is a sort of connection to the universe, to time, to mother earth.

I don't know enough, but others do. it is hard for me to describe. But it does feel like a force to connect with, something like.....how can i describe......
So maybe history is a sort of art, a sort of meditation, a sort of energy, a way of connecting to these things and seeing the world through, wel, like animals perhaps see the world, so connected with nature, for we can immerse ourselves into our artificial civilization and become to disconnected from the 'whatever it is', like we can when as i was saying a cancer scare can shock you into the real animal/natural/astral real.

These are just some thoughts as i try to understand this strange power/effect of history.
 
I have a constant deep interest in history. I don't just mean kings, queens, romans, I mean the ordinary little stuff like the table I am sat at which someone in the 1950s bought, or who laid the bricks in the wall I am sat next to. Are they still alive? Who were they? What were they like? That there was all this life going on before I came into being, and one day so shall I too go and others live on behind me.

Then there is history like the dinosaurs having walked this earth for 150 million years, and mankind has only been around for 1 million years. And on the hills and moors around where I live there is evidence of ancient settlements and human activity. What was the family like who lived on the hills 50,000 years ago? Did the little girl play and look at daisies?

History is very profound and real. It makes me feel alive such that, by contrast, mostly I am in some kind of stupor when I just am going about ordinary life. There is something in this but I can't just say what it is. History holds something. Perhaps something to do with a level of consciousness, a sobering collecting of ones self and existence, a re-framing of one's situation. It is a work in progress.

How do other people regard history?
The real history where I live is lost, the People that worked the land, the families that struggled through their poverty with scarcely enough to subsist on, the rich people move in and gobble up all the land with little intent to share, all the old frame houses are being razed( gasp, lest a poor person would want to rent it to have a place to stay) the hard won cleared land is being planted back in monoculture tree farms or just allowed to grow up, with no respect or thought of the toil that used to be the norm. The only history of the area which survives is some acknowledgment to the rich and famous or some People of notoriety. Its steadily becoming a gated community with a shrinking population, People have pretty much lost the concept of being neighborly, never realizing the benefit of community.
Its sad, maybe someday some will come to realize[no man is an island]
 
never realizing the benefit of community
I was invited to a four-year-old's birthday party today. It was so much fun with people of all ages and live music and nice snacks. I would normally go on a big solo ride for New Years Day. But I lent that bike to a guy who wants one. He did the big solo ride he also took photos and a video. It is interesting when we take agency with community of how our own pasts have impacted us, and how we can effect our futures individually and collectively. These amazing new telescopes can see to the edge of time. Regarding initial conditions, early childhood until age 3 or 4 is the biggest factor in a person's life. But we do not value that. We instead prioritize yachts the size of hotels for the few. Moms are forced to go back to junky jobs after a few weeks. Edit: Here is the bike I lent out today in its natural habitat, the photo taken today by the rider and posted to Google Maps. He rode for 2-hours, although he had two batteries, he was not down one bar on the first. He did epic climbs.
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Regarding initial conditions, early childhood until age 3 or 4 is the biggest factor in a person's life. But we do not value that. We instead prioritize yachts the size of hotels for the few. Moms are forced to go back to junky jobs after a few weeks.

That is false. Moms are NOT forced to go back after a few weeks. Women were politically riled up to agitate for the jobs which men used to do, to support their families. This essentially doubled the work force and lowered wages. Combined with political agitation for divorce and custody arrangements very unfavorable to men, it all spelled the end of that period.
Freedom from the oppression!
Now get back to work, you. You had ten weeks off.
PedalUma has the trick leftist recollection of actual history
 
The real history where I live is lost, the People that worked the land, the families that struggled through their poverty with scarcely enough to subsist on, the rich people move in and gobble up all the land with little intent to share, all the old frame houses are being razed( gasp, lest a poor person would want to rent it to have a place to stay) the hard won cleared land is being planted back in monoculture tree farms or just allowed to grow up, with no respect or thought of the toil that used to be the norm. The only history of the area which survives is some acknowledgment to the rich and famous or some People of notoriety. Its steadily becoming a gated community with a shrinking population, People have pretty much lost the concept of being neighborly, never realizing the benefit of community.
Its sad, maybe someday some will come to realize[no man is an island]
Yes, no respect at all, not a thought for those of the past who left a legacy. What was their struggle and toil for.

We are better people when we hold a gratitude and a tip of the hat to those of the past. It grounds us. We are better people to remember those of the past with thanks in our hearts. It makes a sense of the present, all joined through time in a continuum.

You're right. Thanks for making that point.
 
I was invited to a four-year-old's birthday party today. It was so much fun with people of all ages and live music and nice snacks. I would normally go on a big solo ride for New Years Day. But I lent that bike to a guy who wants one. He did the big solo ride he also took photos and a video. It is interesting when we take agency with community of how our own pasts have impacted us, and how we can effect our futures individually and collectively. These amazing new telescopes can see to the edge of time. Regarding initial conditions, early childhood until age 3 or 4 is the biggest factor in a person's life. But we do not value that. We instead prioritize yachts the size of hotels for the few. Moms are forced to go back to junky jobs after a few weeks. Edit: Here is the bike I lent out today in its natural habitat, the photo taken today by the rider and posted to Google Maps. He rode for 2-hours, although he had two batteries, he was not down one bar on the first. He did epic climbs.
View attachment 143755
Yes, we're stood on the shoulders of what those before us put, bit by bit, into place. We are so rich with all that they created for us. It's staggering to take stock.
 
For me, this thread, I'm finding, is overdue and doing me good deep in my spiritual psyche, something I need to understand and settle. An important stop on my voyage.

These thoughts are not new to me, but they seem to be crystallising now as I begin to feel a settlement of the topic.

I suppose it is a homage of thanks to those that came before me and laid down the foundations of that on which I stand. And somehow, in offering my recognition and gratitude to them, I restore a balance in myself.

I think this is one aspect of my feelings about history. I inherit sooo much.

It sits better with me to be consciously connected with the past.

All this stuff in my world prepared for me to benefit from. I have to offer my thanks and gratitude.
 
I am a big fan of history, however, I do not subscribe to the politically correct version of it. It saddens me to see everyone’s history in the USA honored, except our own. The current culture is using todays guidelines for judging all in the past. The changing of names of streets, schools, holidays…. I am surely not saying what happened in the past was proper, but we as people do not come with “owners manuals” to turn to page 67 for a particular situation. We learn from making mistakes and growing from them. With todays “cancel culture” all we can do is make the same mistakes because the history has been erased.
 
I am a big fan of history, however, I do not subscribe to the politically correct version of it. It saddens me to see everyone’s history in the USA honored, except our own. The current culture is using todays guidelines for judging all in the past. The changing of names of streets, schools, holidays…. I am surely not saying what happened in the past was proper, but we as people do not come with “owners manuals” to turn to page 67 for a particular situation. We learn from making mistakes and growing from them. With todays “cancel culture” all we can do is make the same mistakes because the history has been erased.
or we need to stop venerating the traitors of the past. the South never let go of the past and tried to keep it alive. what id Germany had nazi lane hitler high school? even Lee said the flag should be burned it was a traitor's flag. keeping the traitors alive is not learning from the past its trying to keep the past alive.
 
or we need to stop venerating the traitors of the past. the South never let go of the past and tried to keep it alive. what id Germany had nazi lane hitler high school? even Lee said the flag should be burned it was a traitor's flag. keeping the traitors alive is not learning from the past its trying to keep the past alive.
Unfortunately foofie, you're tiggered again. He didn't specify "venerating" or the history of the south, or of whomever YOU consider to be traitors, you know. There are currently traitors running things and turning the agencies into political armies against political opponents. Currently censoring medical information in order to forward government programs. Ministries of Truth are popping up. Totally dystopian stuff, foofie, but it's the kind of censorship YOU like.
He correctly pointed to the removal of our own histories in favor of equally ugly stuff from other cultures or our own present very ugly culture of political censorship from the joining of big business and global political control by the fabulously wealthy.
People who rightly value freedom highly want YOUR insane thoughts to be freely available to air out the stench, even if it is supporting and training Nazi forces for Ukraine.
You detest sHitler but praise present-day nazis being trained and armed.
 
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