Guy: Sort of ruins the whole mountain biking experience. Hope they get banned on busier trail areas.
Me: Reminds me of what I heard when snowboards were invented. Several ski areas did ban them for a while but then they became so popular that resorts relented. I'm not sure which aspect of the mountain biking experience you feel might be ruined, or degraded. Care to expand a bit?
Guy: At least snowboards use physical human ability. There would be no limit with e-bikes. This one is up to 350 watts (~1/2 horse power) but later models will surely sport more power, resulting in increased traffic tearing up sensitive trails. For instance, the Colorado Trail features beautiful high alpine trails in sensitive areas. These habitats can barely sustain pedal bikes and would get absolutely devastated by this monstrosity.
E-bikes are great for urban commutes where erosion isn't a factor, but we need to keep them off of areas worth preserving. As soon as I see one of these on a trail near me, you bet I'll start contacting local government to put a ban on this.
Me: I see now, thanks Ryan. Indeed there are sensitive ecosystems that should be managed accordingly. Even the land where we've built our houses, highways, ski areas etc. are delicate and in many ways ruined by us. I understand your concern that extending the reach of humans on bicycles will eat away at more of these pristine landscapes. It's almost like having a chairlift to the top of Everest... That would certainly change the landscape but a positive side effect might be the removal of oxygen canisters, bodies etc. that have been left by un-augmented visitors.
Regarding the extended range of people (or re-introduction of injured and older people) electric bikes might foster increased appreciation for said landscapes and thus stimulate resource investment in preserving them. In modern times it has been cyclists, hikers, campers etc. who use these spaces and are thus motivated to vote and donate for protection. More people paying for park entry fees means more rangers, trail signs, improvements etc. It's hard to say whether more people automatically equals more damage (assuming it's only the rule breakers causing the damage). The increased monetary support and awareness may balance that out and therefore, overall may be equal to an under-utilized open space with very little enforcement. If these two scenarios are a wash in terms of damage then I'd opt for the ebike version where more people are enjoying the landscape and dedicating more mindshare to the outdoors. Electric Bikes are almost always heavier, torquier, and louder than human powered bikes but used appropriately they are just a different way for enjoying the environment and there are regulations already in place regarding power and speed (750 watts and 20 mph or 27 mph with pedal assist).
Guy: Nicely written response. I think the thing to keep in mind, at some point these ought to not be considered electric assisted bicycles, but motorcycles. Albeit alternatively powered motorcycle. Thus, having to abide by the same laws of registrations (HOV permits) and sticking on the same trails as motos.
Along with bicycles, I am a moto enthusiast, so I understand there are a lot of open spaces left in the US which is only functionally explored and enjoyed through a powered bike. BTW, I saw some of your other videos (all really well done, mind you) but those 'bikes' with no pedals and can do 50MPH, aren't bikes, they are electric motorcycle. I would love to hear your excuse if you disagree
Me: Hey, thanks Ryan. I put a lot of energy into building positive relationships and fostering constructive dialog. Your points are valid and I wanted to acknowledge them and really consider the impacts of the Haibike vs. some of the other stuff. I thought about mentioning the Stealth ebikes and calling out their "Competition modes" which could be abused. My post was getting long so I left it out but it's nice to see you highlight it at the end of your response.
The super-powerful "electric bikes" with higher top speeds, excessive torque and large knobby tires really are in a different class and you can see what they do to the open space trail we were riding in the videos. Some of the rocks got kicked around and the sliding-out stops were over the top. For the review we chose areas that were close to the city and less delicate (or completely man-made) for our rides. It would be really frustrating and sad to see that kind of thing happening in a delicate ecosystem or erosion-prone area and I agree with rules designed to dissuade it.
