Washington State's new ebike laws just passed.

[MrHyak]

Even the Netherlands — arguably the most bike-centric country in the world — is having problems now with bike riders going too fast for conditions on public bikeways.

Recent years have seen a sharp rise in related death and injuries — to the point that a 20 km/h bicycle speed limit is now being tested.

Skip to 2:08 for details:

Not clear from this coverage who all deserves the credit for this trend, but irresponsibly ridden ebikes and e-motos came up more than once — especially RadRover-style fat-tire ebikes and e-motos ridden by youngsters. Also not clear that a speed limit would be enforceable there for reasons explained in the video.

We're clearly dealing with a fundamental flaw in human nature here: Combining (a) power of any kind with (b) lack of accountability for how it's used rarely turns out well. Even in a country where everybody should know better by now.

Add immaturity and lack of training and experience to the mix, and you have a recipe for exactly this disaster in micromobility.

The only way to fight this fire is to remove (a) or (b) or both from the mix. But no easy way to do either now that cheap fast ebikes and e-motos have flooded markets everywhere.

I think 20kmh is a bit slow since its about the same as 12mph. Our trail/path speed limits here in the USA are usually 15mph, about the same as 24kmh and feels very responsible. Back in the 1970's and 80's as kids we had mini bikes and any time we were caught by the police on the roads they would take our mini bikes away and make our parents come down to the station to pick them up. It seemed to work pretty good, and kids were not buzzing all over the streets and sidewalks like the ebikes are today. Back then kids could only ride pedal bikes on the streets or sidewalks, no exceptions.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Back in the 1970's and 80's as kids we had mini bikes and any time we were caught by the police on the roads they would take our mini bikes away and make our parents come down to the station to pick them up. It seemed to work pretty good, and kids were not buzzing all over the streets and sidewalks like the ebikes are today.

Seems like law enforcement had forgotten how to do that by the time the e-cycle (ebike+e-moto) explosion hit here. Now Carlsbad and adjoining SoCal beach towns are doing it with some regularity, but it may be too little, too late. Many, many kids on illegal e-cycles here now.

Wondering if the litigation climate might have something to with the seemingly complete lack of enforcement early on. Can easily see affluent parents here threatening the city with lawsuits if little Johnny's Surron gets confiscated — especially if that puts the parents back in the school drop-off and pick-up lines.

 

[PedalUma]

Jealous? Envy? Are you f'n high?
Their reputation for being arrogant and inconsiderate is well deserved.
I've seen packs weave in and out of families with young children at high speed. They think if they say "on your left" it' somehow grants them permission to do high speed passes cutting as close as possible.
It can't be just me as these "stereotypes" keep resurfacing from people who have never met and from all parts of the country.
The fact that they dress like wanna_be's just adds to the D_bag stereotype
Not you? Great!. as it's not everyone.
But it's more than a rare occurrence or a few bad apples by far...and much more hazardous than anyone on an eBike in my experience.

No one needs a Halloween Cyclist Costume as a weekend cyclist to ride a bike. Use what is comfortable for the ride, such as cotton and wool, and is most appropriate for your destination. Ride to do things in daily life. Lycra stinks quickly. Get a good air flow saddle works better than sweaty ball bearing, constricted, adult diaper pants. Make it fun. And part of a real daily riding lifestyle is to get places and do things everyday on a bike that can haul stuff. It is better to do 100k during the week on an everyday bike, than 100k on a weekend on a bike that is practically useless as transportation.. The Lycra guys ride their bikes 80 miles then drive four blocks for a six-pack. Silly.

 

[LandoftheGiants]

So just for clarity you're OK with any biker high speed weaving past all including the elderly and families with young kids...
No wonder you have no problems.

Yes it's the speed that's the problem, and the sense of entitlement. I call them racers because that is what they are, once you rebrand them roadies, which was a marketing ploy to increase sales because girls typically don't like to race, then you obfuscate their purpose and the purpose of most who ride them. They are great bikes, for racing, but suburban streets and bikeways are not racetracks. The sense of entitlement I have spoken of here before and it comes out in the 'Group' behavior. Solo riders on race bikes are from my experience very considerate, they have to be, they are one fragile bike in a sea of cars. But when the Group rides it's like they become outlaws, a law unto themselves. I've been forked and verbally abused by riders for passing too close but as soon as a red light appears they are brushing my mirrors at speed. Double standards don't sit well with me.

I have a few motorcycles and one is a race bike, RR. But I don't race through the traffic on it though, I just cruise like on my other bikes. When I'm out alone in the hills though, that's another matter. It's the main reason I don't ride with groups on similar bikes, they are always going faster than prudent for the road conditions and in a line pass cars as though nothing is coming the other way! It becomes a race for them, at least for the ones on sport bikes. There is no solution for the issues caused by the racer pack, the training ride, where slowing down is not acceptable. It's just another facet of everyday life in the city that people have to contend with it but the average pedestrian or motorist isn't going to stop what they are doing and stand back so they don't interfere with the race. Like stopping to allow 30 riders to blow a stop sign in a side street and pour out into my path. That's a very common thing in the city I came from. So common the cops began staking out the signs to issue tickets. So if someone wants to ride a racer and dress in the typical racer outfit, then they have to expect some angst from the public at large simply because of the stereotyping. Riders have been injured and killed on the road because of built up angst, the videos are endless, deliberate targeting. Not of cyclists, of racers.

 

[kevinmccune]

Humans are tribal creatures. Throughout most of history, anybody not in your tribe was less than human and could / should be killed. We're trying to get past that, with varying degrees of success. Making fun of the other tribe is human nature, and better than actual fighting. Me, as a member of the blue jeans / loose natural fiber tribe, I may poke good natured fun at the spandex tribe, and I don't get upset if somebody pokes fun of me as barefoot hippie freak. (I learned my lesson years ago about cycling barefoot, but that's another story.)

In many cases appearance is associated with behavior, sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly... but most stereotypes have at least some basis in fact.

Hikers also divide between the natural and spandex tribes. In the sport flying world, civilian pilots who choose to wear military style flight suits get kidded. Swimmers make fun of speedo wearers (ok, for good reason in many cases ). Skiers vs snowboarders, canoeists vs kayakers. Rock vs hip-hop vs country. And of course manual vs ebikes. The list goes on.

yeah Speedos( not in Aussie land here) at times show too much frontage and crackage,do make good supporters

So I have to eat my words when I said I don't see too many street ninjas. My work apartment is less than a mile from the office and I usually walk. The last week or so I have seen this dude on a fat tire ebike, not pedaling, dark clothes, a full face helmet and no lights, zip down the street at 30+ mph hour and run right through the red light of the first major street I have to cross. I have seen him run the light at least twice, including this morning.

what gets me is the "you tuber" bike reviewer burning through stop signs and being reckless.

 

[kevinmccune]

My SIL is a retired teacher. She struggled getting along with her peers at several schools. Who was most likely the problem.

An Ebiker continually has issues with roadies. Who is most likely the problem?

'the critter in the mirror"