Turbo Vado 5.0 Shifting Problem

[Shekky]

Hi All,


This may be a “rider error” situation but I’m stumped. This is my first ebike but I've been riding and working on bikes for a LONG time! From day one, the bike had trouble upshifting into the smallest cog when riding. It was a little glitchy on the workstand but the problem only seems to come up during actual riding. I’ve cleaned and lubed the rear derailleur (it moves freely and easily when disconnected); tried riding with the rear derailleur clutch on and off, and finally replaced the shift cable. The last really helped and I noticed the relatively new factory cable was binding a bit. But even with all of that and even though the shifting has gotten much better, both on the stand and on the road, it still hangs on going into the highest gear (smallest cog) most of the time. I have to stop pedaling and coast to get the chain to drop into the highest gear. Is this an “ebike thing” having to do with the motor moving the chain or am I just missing something???? I should add that when the bike is on the workstand it now shifts perfectly up and down with the motor on and off. Only on the road. . .

Thanks
Eric

 

[Nxkharra]

I haven’t encounter that with my Vado 5.

 

[Jimbo08]

Limits are set correctly?

 

[Nxkharra]

I am not technical. All I know is all the gears are working ok.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The very first thing while riding a mid-drive motor e-bike is to stop pedalling for a short while on the gear shift. The motor and the cyclist legs together exert high strain on the drive-train. Stopping the pedalling on shifting reduces the stress and makes the shifting process smoother. It also adds to the longevity of the drive-train. DO NOT SHIFT UNDER THE LOAD.

However, it is always a chance that the derailleur is misaligned. I would leave the work to the LBS.

 

[rochrunner]

End Adjust Bolt incorrectly set: With the XT line of derailleurs, one of the main causes of imprecise shifting is an incorrect hanger pulley height. It often affects the highest gears with the smallest sprockets. The pulley height is fine tuned with the End Adjust Bolt. The hanger pulley height is usually really easy to adjust. On the largest sprocket, make sure that the distance between the pulley and the cassette is roughly 1cm. Use that value as a starting point. It's usually not that easy to measure, so you'll have to guesstimate. After completing the change, switch to the smallest sprocket. Make sure that the pulley won't touch the cassette in that position.

I think you're referring to the "idler pulley" and the screw is commonly known as the "B Screw" for some reason. Yes, it's among the important adjustments when setting up the derailleur, which really is not all that difficult to do. In fact, assuming the limits and B-screw are set correctly, most missed-shift problems can be fixed by figuring out which direction you might want to tweak the derailleur and then turn the barrel adjuster 1/4 turn in the right direction and see what happens.

For the case here, the derailleur might not be moving outward quite enough and the rider might turn the adjuster clockwise 1/4 turn to "loosen" the shift cable, allowing the derailleur to move slightly. Then make sure the other cog changes still work correctly. Of course, if the derailleur is already against the limit screw, then this won't help!

 

[Sierratim]

I think you're referring to the "idler pulley" and the screw is commonly known as the "B Screw" for some reason. Yes, it's among the important adjustments when setting up the derailleur, which really is not all that difficult to do. In fact, assuming the limits and B-screw are set correctly, most missed-shift problems can be fixed by figuring out which direction you might want to tweak the derailleur and then turn the barrel adjuster 1/4 turn in the right direction and see what happens.

For the case here, the derailleur might not be moving outward quite enough and the rider might turn the adjuster clockwise 1/4 turn to "loosen" the shift cable, allowing the derailleur to move slightly. Then make sure the other cog changes still work correctly. Of course, if the derailleur is already against the limit screw, then this won't help!

I agree. Nearly all of my mis-shifts are at the top or bottom of the range. A tweak of the barrel adjuster just about always brings it into adjustment.

Sounds like Shekky's drive train is nearly new and well cleaned and lubed. That leaves fine tuning the adjusters...

I've also had situations where a bike would shift well on the stand, but be off when I test ride it. My go to mechanic explained that this is usually due to frame flex with the weight of the rider. His only suggestion was to play with the adjusters as you ride.

My LBS set my Vado 5 up before I picked it up last Spring. Minor barrel adjustments and cleanings have kept it shifting well since then. Just lucky I guess?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My LBS set my Vado 5 up before I picked it up last Spring. Minor barrel adjustments and cleanings have kept it shifting well since then. Just lucky I guess?

No need to adjust anything in the drive-train of my Vado 5 since last October. Lucky me, eh?

@Shekky Eric didn't tell us what model/version of his e-bike was? P.S. Vado 5, sorry.

 

[Shekky]

I do all my derailleur adjustments myself. I see you have an 11 speed Shimano XT. This is sort of typical XT stuff. It's not complicated. It just takes a bit of patience.

Possbile causes:

End Adjust Bolt incorrectly set: With the XT line of derailleurs, one of the main causes of imprecise shifting is an incorrect hanger pulley height. It often affects the highest gears with the smallest sprockets. The pulley height is fine tuned with the End Adjust Bolt. The hanger pulley height is usually really easy to adjust. On the largest sprocket, make sure that the distance between the pulley and the cassette is roughly 1cm. Use that value as a starting point. It's usually not that easy to measure, so you'll have to guesstimate. After completing the change, switch to the smallest sprocket. Make sure that the pulley won't touch the cassette in that position.

For an XT 8000 RD, it's explained on page 17 here: https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RD0004-08-ENG.pdf

For the Shadow RD (probably closer to yours), they mention 5-6 mm of clearance, so you might have to bring in the pulley a bit closer.

That's explained on page 12 here: https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-TRRD001-01-ENG.pdf

Cable too tight: Use the micro adjusters to remove some tension in the cable. Don't overdo it.

Derailleur limits: If nothing else works, it's got to be the limits.

I haven't had a chance to test ride yet but this is really promising! I've adjusted the end bolt and that seems to have really helped on the stand. Thanks.

 

[Shekky]

I haven't had a chance to test ride yet but this is really promising! I've adjusted the end bolt and that seems to have really helped on the stand. Thanks.

UPDATE: The bike ride tests great! Thanks JayVee!

I'll add that this was a good teaching moment as well. This is the first non-traditional rear derailleur I've worked on and am used to High, Low, B-Screw, and cable tension adjustments.

 

[rochrunner]

One thing on my 4.0 that was not documented unless you read the Shimano spec sheet that comes with the bike is the operation of the "clutch" engagement lever on the rear derailleur. The Shimano docs just say to be sure to disengage it before removing the rear wheel, but don't explain exactly what it is and what it's for. My bike was delivered with it in the "off" position and the dealer didn't mention it (if he even knew about it). This was new tech even for me since I don't keep up with MTBs at all, but it seems like it might be effective especially on the Vado with its unusually long chain run.

 

[Nxkharra]

One thing on my 4.0 that was not documented unless you read the Shimano spec sheet that comes with the bike is the operation of the "clutch" engagement lever on the rear derailleur. The Shimano docs just say to be sure to disengage it before removing the rear wheel, but don't explain exactly what it is and what it's for. My bike was delivered with it in the "off" position and the dealer didn't mention it (if he even knew about it). This was new tech even for me since I don't keep up with MTBs at all, but it seems like it might be effective especially on the Vado with its unusually long chain run.

My LBS told me to keep it locked so the chain doesn’t rattle when the road is not smooth (keeps
Chain stay from dings). It might creat a bit of harder gear change in the locked position. Not sure about this last part.
I am sure our other friends here know much more about this.

 

[Sierratim]

My LBS told me to keep it locked so the chain doesn’t rattle when the road is not smooth (keeps
Chain stay from dings). It might creat a bit of harder fear change in the locked position. Not sure about this last part.
I am sure our other friends here know much more about this.

I agree. I always leave the derailleur clutch in the ON position when riding. It reduces chain slap caused by derailleur movement when riding on rougher surfaces.

I've ridden with the clutch in the OFF position and can't tell the difference in shifting so I go with my LBS recommendation.

The clutch does need to be in the OFF position to get the rear wheel off without a real wrestling match.

 

[Shekky]

One thing on my 4.0 that was not documented unless you read the Shimano spec sheet that comes with the bike is the operation of the "clutch" engagement lever on the rear derailleur. The Shimano docs just say to be sure to disengage it before removing the rear wheel, but don't explain exactly what it is and what it's for. My bike was delivered with it in the "off" position and the dealer didn't mention it (if he even knew about it). This was new tech even for me since I don't keep up with MTBs at all, but it seems like it might be effective especially on the Vado with its unusually long chain run.

That was the same for me. Until I downloaded the Shimano docs, I thought it was just some sort of plastic rub strip for the chain!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

This was new tech even for me since I don't keep up with MTBs at all, but it seems like it might be effective especially on the Vado with its unusually long chain run.

There is so much new technology in cycling... It was the first time I learned of the Shadow clutch tech in the derailleur, about A-HEAD handlebars stem. different pedals. dropper posts etc etc. Our 11-gear cassettes are still a novelty and the 12-gear ones have just emerged (with mixed reactions). The Vado has been designed by MTB people with all the latest technology used. Let us enjoy that!

 

[Shekky]

There is so much new technology in cycling... It was the first time I learned of the Shadow clutch tech in the derailleur, about A-HEAD handlebars stem. different pedals. dropper posts etc etc. Our 11-gear cassettes are still a novelty and the 12-gear ones have just emerged (with mixed reactions). The Vado has been designed by MTB people with all the latest technology used. Let us enjoy that!

I do wonder how much of it is change for change's (or profits') sake?