Torque + cadence sensor?

[prestoOne]

I am looking at some bikes from one manufacturer and 3 different sensor types are listed:
1) Torque
2) Cadence
3) Torque + Cadence.

I asked and there is no way on #3 to choose either one of the other, it is both of them together.
Can someone help me understand this?

 

[scrambler]

A proper mix of both will get you the best pedal assist possible.
One thing to check is if you have access to programming settings to tweak the balance based on your preference.

 

[JES2020]

I am looking at some bikes from one manufacturer and 3 different sensor types are listed:
1) Torque
2) Cadence
3) Torque + Cadence.

I asked and there is no way on #3 to choose either one of the other, it is both of them together.
Can someone help me understand this?

3 just means you have amplified output when you apply more force to the pedal AND you also get a consistent level of output amplification when pedaling at a consistent rate.

 

[WattsUpDude]

As far as I know, every bike with a torque sensor also has a cadence sensor.

 

[prestoOne]

Thank you for the technical info.
I suppose there is a whole range or motor response programmed that can vary from shop to shop much like any vehicle motor can be tuned and I have to adapt to the motor. Does that sound right?
Do people get that into it that the program how the motor response themselves or is that just for the finicky?

 

[JES2020]

Thank you for the technical info.
I suppose there is a whole range or motor response programmed that can vary from shop to shop much like any vehicle motor can be tuned and I have to adapt to the motor. Does that sound right?
Do people get that into it that the program how the motor response themselves or is that just for the finicky?

I absolutely get into the controller parameters, it's the reason I love the KT s.

There are a lot of bikes that don't give you that control, so you are stuck with what the manufacturer thinks is acceptable.

 

[scrambler]

It all depends on what the manufacturer has done, and your use of the bike. If they have done a good job it is mostly for the finicky
But it does also depend on your use of the bike.

Cadence sensing is mostly an ON/OFF switch based on detecting some pedaling (controllers can add some intelligence to that).
It is good for pedaling at regular speed (streets, smooth trails) because it maintains the assist regardless of how hard you press on the pedal.
Because of that when riding conditions change abruptly, it can cause unwanted assist.

Torque sensing is proportional to the pressure you put on the pedal.
It is best when you constantly need to adjust the assist because of the terrain (like off road riding) because you get instant modulation based on the need you express with your legs.
Because it responds to your effort, it can provide irregular assist when you pedal at constant speed where your pressure on the pedal is intermittent (again controllers can help with some smoothing).

The intelligence of the blending is meant to strike a compromise based on the detected conditions. How good it is, depends on how sophisticated the controller and its programming is...

So if your use is extremely bias in one or the other, you may wish for a little tweaking towards that use.

 

[AHicks]

Thank you for the technical info.
I suppose there is a whole range or motor response programmed that can vary from shop to shop much like any vehicle motor can be tuned and I have to adapt to the motor. Does that sound right?
Do people get that into it that the program how the motor response themselves or is that just for the finicky?

In a perfect world, we would be allowed to tune our motors like you are talking here. In reality, some are "tunable" while most are not.

Torque sensing, when available, is generally more expensive. It's your call if it's worth it.

Cadence systems sense when your crank is moving, and apply a certain amount of assist (amount dependent on PAS level chosen w/5-10 PAS levels generally available). Within the cadence sensing systems, you most often see speed based, but a few are now offering POWER based, which is dramatically smoother than the speed based when in operation.

 

[JES2020]

it is mostly for the finicky

Let's agree to disagree .
With a KT controller you can make sooo many adjustments to your bike's performance, it's like having hundreds of bikes in one !

It's all relative...if you think having different levels of PAS is finicky then yes, having order of magnitude more control would be finicky.

Myself I enjoy variety. Last week I tweaked the controller parameters and now it's a whole new bike!
Some times you have to get into the controller to fix things.
I fixed an anemic setting and doubled my power.
When I first got the bike I got a PAS magnetic disk that failed to work.
I was able to fix it by changing polarity in the controller.

So If you like to have options, get a bike that allows you to make changes in the controller.

 

[scrambler]

Let's agree to disagree .
With a KT controller you can make sooo many adjustments to your bike's performance, it's like having hundreds of bikes in one !

It's all relative...if you think having different levels of PAS is finicky then yes, having order of magnitude more control would be finicky.

Myself I enjoy variety. Last week I tweaked the controller parameters and now it's a whole new bike!
Some times you have to get into the controller to fix things.
I fixed an anemic setting and doubled my power.
When I first got the bike I got a PAS magnetic disk that failed to work.
I was able to fix it by changing polarity in the controller.

So If you like to have options, get a bike that allows you to make changes in the controller.

I was being humorous, I am the first one to mess with it
I even created my own torque sensor to add on my cadence only bike and programmed the controller to my taste.

And whether or not one is the kind to temper with things or not, it is better to have more options than less.
So given the choice, getting a bike with some access to the PAS settings is definitely a plus

 

[JES2020]

I was being humorous,

That's fine. It's can be very difficult to tell if someone is joking here.
So, for clarity's sake, I think my post was useful.

 

[prestoOne]

Thank you. All your posts were very useful to me.
I am the guy that wants to switch between 2 or 3 modes: commute, offroad hills and casual shared use paths.
I also can't help but tinker, I might gladly spend the first month experimenting with different settings and looking through curves. I might spend more time programming software than be on the bike.
OR I might save myself and spend my time accepting and simply enjoying what I have. First world problems and I know it.

Be happy! thanks.

 

[AHicks]

Thank you. All your posts were very useful to me.
I am the guy that wants to switch between 2 or 3 modes: commute, offroad hills and casual shared use paths.
I also can't help but tinker, I might gladly spend the first month experimenting with different settings and looking through curves. I might spend more time programming software than be on the bike.
OR I might save myself and spend my time accepting and simply enjoying what I have. First world problems and I know it.

Be happy! thanks.

My experience has been that with the right controller you can do about anything you want with 1 "mode", and varying the amount of assist you want/need. In fact, with the UART based Bafang mid drive controllers, there's WAY more adjustment potential than most of us need. Even guys like you....