Time from order to delivery.

[JimAndArrow]

This is more common than you'd think. We had a bike sitting for over 8wks last year. International shipping is totally fucked right no one's happy about it.

Thanks for chiming in @JVBulman, that’s interesting to hear. You had someone pay for air freight and their bike sat for 8 weeks? Did this person’s head explode?

Honestly I’d say the needle on my purchase experience is turning south at this point, it’d be one thing if there was an express disclaimer of any timeline for delivery and you knew that going in, but R&M should not sell air freight at these prices and then allow this to occur IMHO.

 

[JVBulman]

Thanks for chiming in @JVBulman, that’s interesting to hear. You had someone pay for air freight and their bike sat for 8 weeks? Did this person’s head explode?

Honestly I’d say the needle on my purchase experience is turning south at this point, it’d be one thing if there was an express disclaimer of any timeline for delivery and you knew that going in, but R&M should not sell air freight at these prices and then allow this to occur IMHO.

We ended up eating it for them IIRC. That particular event intitally caused us to rethink how eagerly we offer air shipment to customers, but it's turned out to be a rare case as every bike since has arrived in the expected time frame.

 

[JimAndArrow]

We ended up eating it for them IIRC. That particular event intitally caused us to rethink how eagerly we offer air shipment to customers, but it's turned out to be a rare case as every bike since has arrived in the expected time frame.

Makes sense, and sounds like you did as right by the customer as you could under the circumstances. Of course, I've since been looking at various other sites and found a variety of delay stories (though more seem to be related to promised build dates not honored), and if you're the person it happens to, and especially if you paid a ton of extra money for an expedited delivery, you end up feeling misled - this is a cardinal sin in a supplier, they collected money for a service they're unable to reliably provide, a pretty serious long term error in their sales/marketing practices I think. If international shipping is ####ed right now, ok then, then tell your customers that, don't take extra $ from them for something you cannot make good on.

For my own part, I spent literally the price of a new car on the bike I ordered (Load 75 Rohloff HS, Nyon, DualBattery) and based on the experience so far, I'm wound up enough at the moment that I don't think I would do it again if I had it to do over, which speaks for itself - someone who is annoyed because the company was less than up front about delivery before the product has even shown up is not likely to have that new toy glow and be inclined to overlook its flaws or rave about the product to their friends, which is exactly the opposite of what you're going for in a premium brand.

Hopefully, when the bike shows up, it'll be so great I'll forget my frustration about paying $1300 extra for "air freight" that waits on trucks for weeks at a time and change my mind. But I was already considering buying one or two more ebikes for my wife and son, and at this point ordering from R&M wouldn't be high on the list of possibilities, where initially I was leaning this way - by failing to accurately describe the delivery process up front, and collecting extra money from me for a 2-3 week delivery that wasn't, they have started the customer relationship on the wrong foot and that is hard to recover from. (A company with whom you have no experience is preferred to one with whom you have negative experience.) And of all people, I've actually waited much longer than this on a custom bike before (as in bespoke frame) and also had stuff delivered internationally a number of times, including several shipments during the pandemic, one of which was 6' long and 100+ lbs., so this is not my first rodeo, but I've never had something at this level of expense where I had no tracking information, no delivery timeline whatsoever, nothing, just wait until it shows up - let alone when I paid $1000+ extra to get fast delivery. This is just... not in keeping with industry standards or reasonable expectations IMHO, they should not offer "air freight" at all if it may still take 6+ weeks waiting on trucks. Ok, end rant, I suppose I'll update when the bike shows up or when the grumpy about it overwhelms me again and I have to vent... thanks again for the feedback, it's interesting & notable to hear that I'm not alone.

 

[webcurl]

but R&M should not sell air freight at these prices and then allow this to occur IMHO.

And this should be completely under their control?
Can you suggest a company that can guarantee freight lead times during these times?
How many German or other European business persons or tourists have you seen visiting your country lately by plane, if not many then that would suggest a severe lack of passenger airline underbelly freight space.
Without this space & lack of planes then the whole situation becomes like a medical Triage scenario, and i don't think ebikes are very high in that equation, however that equation is structured.
Same goes for Sea Freight, slightly different with many containers tied up in storage, ports and insufficient loads to enable economic voyages of the typically large container vessels of up to 20,000 or more TEU's.
At the moment when it comes to freight, you really have to think outside the box!

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[JimAndArrow]

Yes @webcurl, it is, but more importantly, it's just as much about what they're selling, and they indisputably have control of that.

I have received other international shipments during the pandemic, including a 2 meter long almost 100 lbs. box, in what might be slightly longer than usual timeframes but still a couple of weeks, nothing at all like this. And R&M have since, shortly after agreeing themselves that it was too long and it seemed something was wrong, now changed their tune and communicated to me that 6-7 weeks plus is now their new standard for air freight time (14-18 weeks plus for sea freight - so new bike orders should not be expected in less than 6 months), with 8 weeks or more deemed acceptable by them in my particular case since my bike was built before the originally scheduled date, notwithstanding paying for expedited delivery described as 2-3 weeks. (So, by analogy, if you ordered something from Amazon that was on backorder and paid a bunch extra for FedEx overnight, they think it would be A-ok to ship ground instead and keep the extra money you paid for overnight if it came back in stock earlier than originally scheduled.)

I find their attitude here puzzling to put it mildly, they are well aware that their dealers are selling this as 2-3 weeks and that this is no longer even close to true, and they also could certainly pay for the bikes not to sit around for weeks waiting for truck delivery - they’re just not willing to either pay to get them transported in time to make those timeframes accurate, or to insist dealers be up front with customers about how long their version of air freight now actually takes. Even if shipping times were not in their control, the answer is that you honor your word to customers - if you said it was 2-3 weeks if they paid you an extra $1300 and it was really 2 months, you need to do as @JVBulman did (which should be on the OEM, as the shipper here) and give that money back at the very least, since the customer did not get what they paid for, and start giving future customers accurate timelines. It's never ok to charge the customer for one thing and give them something materially different, and claiming it's not in your control is not an excuse, that still means you failed to deliver what you sold, and what you sold is something you did have control over. Here, the extra charge was for a specific delivery timeframe, and if you can't make that, and not even close but rather 2 or 3 times as long, failing to tell customers that up front, before they've given you their money for that specific thing, is not a fair business practice IMHO.

 

[webcurl]

Yes @webcurl, it is, but more importantly, it's just as much about what they're selling, and they indisputably have control of that.

I have received other international shipments during the pandemic, including a 2 meter long almost 100 lbs. box, in what might be slightly longer than usual timeframes but still a couple of weeks, nothing at all like this. And R&M have since, shortly after agreeing themselves that it was too long and it seemed something was wrong, now changed their tune and communicated to me that 6-7 weeks plus is now their new standard for air freight time (14-18 weeks plus for sea freight - so new bike orders should not be expected in less than 6 months), with 8 weeks or more deemed acceptable by them in my particular case since my bike was built before the originally scheduled date, notwithstanding paying for expedited delivery described as 2-3 weeks. (So, by analogy, if you ordered something from Amazon that was on backorder and paid a bunch extra for FedEx overnight, they think it would be A-ok to ship ground instead and keep the extra money you paid for overnight if it came back in stock earlier than originally scheduled.)

I find their attitude here puzzling to put it mildly, they are well aware that their dealers are selling this as 2-3 weeks and that this is no longer even close to true, and they also could certainly pay for the bikes not to sit around for weeks waiting for truck delivery - they’re just not willing to either pay to get them transported in time to make those timeframes accurate, or to insist dealers be up front with customers about how long their version of air freight now actually takes. Even if shipping times were not in their control, the answer is that you honor your word to customers - if you said it was 2-3 weeks if they paid you an extra $1300 and it was really 2 months, you need to do as @JVBulman did (which should be on the OEM, as the shipper here) and give that money back at the very least, since the customer did not get what they paid for, and start giving future customers accurate timelines. It's never ok to charge the customer for one thing and give them something materially different, and claiming it's not in your control is not an excuse, that still means you failed to deliver what you sold, and what you sold is something you did have control over. Here, the extra charge was for a specific delivery timeframe, and if you can't make that, and not even close but rather 2 or 3 times as long, failing to tell customers that up front, before they've given you their money for that specific thing, is not a fair business practice IMHO.

Not sure how your recent Intl. shipments were "Triaged" or how complex the freight logistics were at the time or how many different ships it went on compared to pre-2020, or how many different companies the insurance had to pass through.

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[JimAndArrow]

They were complex indeed @webcurl, that heavy box went from one continent to a second and then finally North America as a third, and also included large lithium batteries. And in any event you seem to be trying to sidestep the point - if you cannot make good on something, don’t sell it, which you have 100% control over. Claiming something you get from your own suppliers is out of your control after you’ve collected money specifically for it from the customer is no excuse whatsoever.

 

[webcurl]

A lawyer would probably say: it's simple, i'll draw up a waiver & disclaimer for the supplier as well as an expectations waiver & disclaimer for the customer.

 

[JimAndArrow]

LOL, I think it’s simpler than that, just tell customers 6-7 weeks and possibly more, not 2-3, and if you have no control over it whatsoever and it may end up taking 2 or 3 times longer than advertised or expected, you’d better tell customers that before collecting their money. Otherwise, irrespective of any legal rights, customers end up feeling misled, like I do, which may keep a few extra dollars today, but is really not good for business in the long run.

 

[JimAndArrow]

Update: My bike was finally delivered to Propel this week! 7 1/2 weeks in transit from R&M to dealer by “air freight,” one day actually in the air and nearly two months waiting on trucks. And the waiting isn’t quite over yet, apparently they now have a bunch of bikes to set up ahead of mine, and/or it’s not nearly as easy as R&M’s 3 minute Load 60/75 Unboxing & Assembly video makes it look, because I’m told it is going to take at least a week, possibly two before they can get it ready for me to pick up.

@JVBulman If I could pick your brain for a moment, I’m curious, does the video assume a bunch of dealer setup work before it gets to the customer, or does it come to you all like this?

 

[JVBulman]

Update: My bike was finally delivered to Propel this week! 7 1/2 weeks in transit from R&M to dealer by “air freight,” one day actually in the air and nearly two months waiting on trucks. And the waiting isn’t quite over yet, apparently they now have a bunch of bikes to set up ahead of mine, and/or it’s not nearly as easy as R&M’s 3 minute Load 60/75 Unboxing & Assembly video makes it look, because I’m told it is going to take at least a week, possibly two before they can get it ready for me to pick up.

@JVBulman If I could pick your brain for a moment, I’m curious, does the video assume a bunch of dealer setup work before it gets to the customer, or does it come to you all like this?

Happy to chime in on this!

The marketing that bikes ship ready to ride out of the box is incredibly misleading (and dangerous as more and more major companies adopt d2c...)

In short: Assembled =/= adjusted

The video you linked is more or less what it looks like to unpack a Load, but getting it ride-ready takes me another 1.5-2hrs before it's ready to hand off to the customer. Wheels need to be trued, brake pistons need to be balanced and calipers adjusted, hardware and lockrings need to be torqued to spec, the belt needs to be brought up to tension, firmware needs to be updated, rotors need to be bedded, etc.

 

[JimAndArrow]

Thanks @JVBulman, makes sense.