Thoughts on Turbo Vado 4.0, Gazelle C380+, and Aventon.

[AvalancheRun]

I am looking to purchase my first e-bike. I have narrowed the choices down to three fairly different bikes, the Specialized Turbo Vado, the Gazelle Ultimate C380+/T10, and the Aventon Aventure 2. Just wanted to get some thoughts before my final test rides.

The bike will be used for transportation, light errands, and exploring around town. I want to get out of the house more often without my car, and without getting a workout from the bike. The hills near have up to 12% grade with only about 30 feet of runout due to traffic. We have some gravel trails and rough roads here and there. 40 miles in a day would be the theoretical max. 10-20 might be an average.

My priorities in order of preference are comfort, hill climbing ability, range, fun factor, and build quality/reliability. I am hesitant to admit that aesthetics also factors in fairly significantly. All three have local dealers within 10 minutes.

Initial test ride notes:

Gazelle (tried only a C7 model so far): very smooth experience, climbed parking structure ramps very well, quiet. It’s hard to explain but the connection of myself to the bike to the ground felt harmonious. Riding position was too upright. Did not ride over rough roads or bumps. Concerns about the battery size for the money. C380+ HMB looks very nice, but it’s my least favorite design of the three. The belt is appealing on the basis of quietness, and lower maintenance.

Specialized (tried a Vado 4.0 SL EQ): not enough power for climbing. By far the most nimble, like a lightweight finely tuned sports car. Found it to be very comfortable, but did not ride over any bumps. Quietest of the three. Favorite design. Brose motor reliability? I have also come across some talk of the torque overwhelming the drivetrain. Is the Turbo Vado 4.0 due for an update?

Aventon (tried Aventure 2) - surprised by the quality of the fit and finish. Cushy ride. Love the turn signals, front/rear lights, app integration. Swallowed up bumps. Throttle would be nice to have when coming home from a workout. Did not test hill climbing ability. Hides weight well but would be a bear to pedal unpowered. Torque sensor felt natural. Loudest of the three. Enjoyed the power on tap. Costs half of the others.

One thing that bugs me slightly is the Aventon seems to have the most range and hill climbing ability in the ElectricBikeReport reviews (Gazelle not tested). I am assuming the mid-drive Vado would win out on longer inclines of a couple mile or more.

 

[Ben J]

Of of my complaints about the Aventure.2 is that "ECO" isn't low enough. In my experience the range (while continuing to have assist) is a bit over 30 miles, and the assist drops off a lot when the battery gets low. Going up a 12% grade with throttle only is very doable on a fresh battery, but if it's a high milage day and you're on the way home, you will have to help it (and you'll go considerably slower).

If you want to ride "without getting a workout" you'll have to take all published range numbers with a huge grain of salt. Those numbers are under ideal conditions, which includes a vigorously pedaling rider. The Aventure.2 advertises more range than the original while only adding a torque sensor, so all that extra range has to be coming from getting more contribution from the rider. I get twice the range (on 10WH less battery) on my Tero X, but I'm doing a lot more of the work.

Regarding climbing and a mid drive, the Vado's issue is that it doesn't have a super low gear. Approximately the same motor on a last-gen Levo SL would haul you up the hill fine because you'd still have 2 or 3 more downshifts from where the Vado runs out of gears. The gear ratio is going to be a big deal on any mid drive, determining your climbing ability on one and and your top speed on the other.

Even though I am a happy Specialized owner, I think if you are cost sensitive and live in a hilly area, you should consider Trek. Specialized scales their motors across trim levels, so the more expensive Vados have more powerful motors. Trek licenses the Bosch motors and tends to put the same motor in every variant of the bike, so you can buy the bottom trim level and still get 85Nm.

 

[AvalancheRun]

Great points, thank you! I have a Trek dealer within walking distance and have owned Treks all my life. Funny that I never considered them for e-bikes. The others seem to have popped up more in reviews.

I should add the Alant+ 7s and 8s into the mix. Both have 85 nm torque Bosch CX motors, which is more than the Turbo Vado 4.0.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Specialized (tried a Vado 4.0 SL EQ)

The motor here is a Specialized SL 1.1 manufactured by Mahle (not Brose) for Specialized; 35 Nm. No negative reports on the SL motor reliability really. I think you have confused the Vado SL with the full power Specialized Vado 4.0 with a Brose motor (these are far more reliable than the Gen 1 ones were). You have tried the SL. Give a Vado 4.0 (full power) a try, 70 Nm.

 

[AvalancheRun]

The SL is the only model they had on display last week. I am about to try the Turbo Vado 4.0. Is reliability on par with the Bosch Performance Line and CX motors?

Tried the Allant+ 8S and it was fantastic. Climbed 12% hills like nothing. Also tried a Gazelle Avignon and C380 (non + version). Gazelle climbed hills easily, but maybe a little smoother with less excitement. Gazelle seems to be more comfortable and quieter, Trek was more fun. Is it fair to say that those Enviolo shifters are a little less engaging or fun?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Is it fair to say that those Enviolo shifters are a little less engaging or fun?

It is like comparing automatic vs. manual transmission cars
If you want to go for Bosch, make sure it is the Smart System e-bike. Why should you invest in the older system that is getting obsolete now?
Try a Specialized full power Vado. I have not heard negative reports on the Gen 2 Brose motors. Still, the best electronics in the market!
Choose what feels the best for you!

 

[AvalancheRun]

Just finished the rides. Regarding the Turbo Vado 4.0, is brake noise an issue? I did notice some really high frequency squeal, like an old CRT TV would make. Seemed to occur from the brakes. That alone (if normal) would disqualify. Really cool bike otherwise!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Just finished the rides. Regarding the Turbo Vado 4.0, is brake noise an issue? I did notice some really high frequency squeal, like an old CRT TV would make. Seemed to occur from the brakes. That alone (if normal) would disqualify. Really cool bike otherwise!

Well, not sure what brakes are put on the Vado now. My TRP Zurich (premium e-bike hydraulic brakes) were squealing terribly until I replaced TRP rotors with Shimano Ice Technology ones (full power Vado 6.0) I also ride a Vado SL with Tektro brakes and organic pads and these are silent.

 

[AvalancheRun]

@Stefan Mikes Curious what kind of range you see from the Vado? I was also looking at replacement batteries and the site is showing $1800 (!) for a 600 Wh battery. That can’t be the real price.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Stefan Mikes Curious what kind of range you see from the Vado? I was also looking at replacement batteries and the site is showing $1800 (!) for a 600 Wh battery. That can’t be the real price.

A difficult question! I would start with my Vado is not a new 710 Wh model, and the best of my degraded batteries holds the full charge of 533 Wh only! Given these conditions:

• 533 Wh available
• 211 lb rider plus a pannier with tools, a spare battery etc
• Flattish terrain
• Fair weather
• Speed in the range expected from a Class 1 e-bike
• 35/35% assistance

...the range is some 56 miles. Each of my extra 604 Wh batteries cost around US$1,000 plus an inexpensive battery cover. You should ask your Specialized dealer about availability and the real price!

 

[Ben J]

HMB model

Does that stand for "hold my beer"?

Aventure 2 offers a good value for its features, including turn signals, lights, and app integration. It provides a cushy ride and has good hill climbing ability and range according to reviews

Do not buy an Aventure.2 for turn signals, app integration, or range.

 

[AvalancheRun]

Great comments guys. I actually tried most of the bikes twice. This includes the Gazelle C8, C380 Avignon, C380, and C380+, then the Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0, and 5.0 (IGH + Automatiq), and finally the Trek Allant+ 8S.

Ultimately I enjoyed the ride of the Gazelles the most, and kept coming back to them. I tried the last C380+ but the motor noise was more present than I was comfortable with (disclosure: I have sensitive hearing).
My wife and I ended up placing orders for two 2023 C380 Hold My Beer edition (there's plenty of room on back for a case, or two )
The new 2023 model includes the Bosch Smart System, Kiox 300 display, 625 Wh battery, 75 Nm torque, and new front suspension IIRC.

The Turbo Vado 4.0 was sleek and fun. The 5.0 with IGH + Automatiq shifting was a marvel. Super silent and seamless. The rear radar system kept picking up parked cars though. Maybe it wasn't set up right. Btw, these just went on sale 2 days ago.

The Trek Allant+ 8s was a fantastic suggestion too. With 85 Nm of torque it ate up those 12% grade hills (they let us take the bikes on a longer test), and the brakes were equally as impressive. Just imparted a feeling of total control going downhill.

The Gazelle ride position really won me over for cruising around town. I'm already eying a cargo bike to replace the car entirely in town, and a lighter stealthy bike like the Vado 4.0 SL, or the Ride1Up Roadster V2 Gravel (now has a throttle!) for evening use downtown. Or something totally different, a 30 mph wanna-be moto thing that my wife and I can ride together for a couple miles.

 

[TrevorB]

Make sure to practice removing rear wheel at home. Because of belt drive likely to need more than multitool. Murphy says it will be wet and miserable when you get a puncture, not time find out your tool kit isn't upto job.

 

[TrevorB]

My wife and I ended up placing orders for two 2023 C380 Hold My Beer edition (there's plenty of room on back for a case, or two )
The new 2023 model includes the Bosch Smart System, Kiox 300 display, 625 Wh battery, 75 Nm torque, and new front suspension IIRC.
.

Looks like new Smart System Performance Line motor has had power increase from 65nm to 75nm. Should be similar to my old gen2 CX motor. Which is worth another gear on climbs compared to my 65nm Performance Line.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My wife and I ended up placing orders for two 2023 C380 Hold My Beer edition (there's plenty of room on back for a case, or two )
The new 2023 model includes the Bosch Smart System, Kiox 300 display, 625 Wh battery, 75 Nm torque, and new front suspension IIRC.

Congratulations! I've almost overlooked your post as I was riding in a gravel ultramarathon on the last weekend

 

[AvalancheRun]

Congratulations! I've almost overlooked your post as I was riding in a gravel ultramarathon on the last weekend

Thanks! And thanks again for all of the guidance.

Ultramarathon.. man, life goals right there.

Congrats to you!