ronin2000
Member
Thats awesome! I’m going to convince the wife to get that for her bike and we can use her spare 468Wh as a back up for longer rides. Then all we would need is a new rear hub and she has a poor mans S
The new turbo Vado 2017
- Thread starter Ciyrus 5000
- Start date
Drew224
New Member
UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE!!!!! Batteries for Turbo S 691wh is on back order......let me repeat....the Turbo S 691wh is "ON BACKORDER"!!!! As for the 504wh I'm not sure about...but their discounting them....so I would suggest buying one now before they are gone for good!!!! I backed out on my "S" for this reason...regretfully!!! I called my dealer here in Chicago and called another dealer in Minneapolis and they both told me the same thing (Batteries are on backorder and that the 50 that are coming from Taiwan...60 people want one). I called batteries plus to see if there was an option and they said they don't touch those batteries with a 10ft pole!!! If there's any info out there...I'm pretty sure I've covered it...but open too suggestions if anyone knows of a place that does rebuilds on these sealed batteries. Very disappointed in Specialized btw....they've made 2017 models and are now backing out on their customers for their future needs...for them to be the newest..bestest...bike line out there!!!! There gonna keep changing their lineup...I promise you!!!
Last edited:
Drew224
New Member
I hate to be the bearer of bad news and hope there is an update for you being they have a 3-5 year warranty...can't remember which...but if you look back at some of my posts....I was getting very excited to all of a sudden get shot down with this news. Had the bike dealer ship the bike to the dealer and everything. I just think this is a really effed up way of doing business on specialized part and probably will prevent me from ever considering them in the future!!!
Drew224
New Member
I'm glad you said something about that....and to answer your question...I'm not sure. To reply to matts post and yours..the warranty is only a couple two three years...but from what the specialized tech guy was saying initially before I got into all this battery stuff...was that they keep stock on their products for 5 years usually...but in this case it doesn't seem so if the discontinuing the bike all together!!!! You may have too send in battery....Specialized sends it too Taiwan...and you get it back in 6 months to a year....who knows!!! But too bank on it....and from what the techs at specialized say...they don't know when where or what on any of the info until the get it from their bosses...seems VERY SKETCHY!!!!!!! BS!!!!!!
ronin2000
Member
http://www.rechargeablepowerenergy.com might be able to repack the battery.
ronin2000
Member
Pretty scary for all the recent turbo owners... I don’t think a company as big as specialized would drop the ball that big for its customers who spent that much coin on their bikes... Im gonna try and keep the faith.
Drew224
New Member
I agree completely, but everyone I spoke too from specialized...including salesmen...said why don't you just buy a Vado...which is even more scary. They're pushing you into their new line...and god knows how long they'll keep that one line running???? Please though...do your research as well. I'd love to know what you find out...but don't ask the #877 number helpline...they don't know anything!!! Ask a dealer or region rep in your area....they'll be able too tell you more.
On that rechargeable website btw...I called them and waiting on a call back. If any good news from them I'll pass it on too you guys.
Douglas Ruby
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Groton
Folks,
I just got off the phone with the U.S. Product Manager for the Turbo line at Specialized HQ. I explained that battery availability is not just a warranty replacement issue for 24 months, but a long term support issue due to the proprietary nature of the battery system. I asked for a more formal statement about battery availability for the Turbo/Turbo X/Turbo S over the long term. I emphasized that this affects their ability to sell out their existing inventory since informed buyers are concerned about getting stuck with a piece of useless iron with zero residual value!
The "architecture" of the Turbo line creates an unfortunate characteristic in that all of the "smarts" for controlling the bike (not just battery management, but motor control, handlebar interface, bluetooth interface, etc.) is in the battery as opposed to the bike. The motor and handlebar controller are relatively dumb slaves to the battery. Thus if there is a battery failure, it is not just a matter of replacing cells, but also replacing the controller and bike settings, etc..
Newer systems like the Stromer ST2 have the "bike-specific smarts" embedded in the bike with a relatively dumb battery. Battery swaps do not affect the personality of the bike (features, odometer settings, etc.). The battery does have to deal with cell management and temp monitoring, but not much else. This makes batteries cheaper and potentially denser per watt and also makes the potential for 3rd party repack more likely. The Bosch and Brose also have relatively "dumb" batteries as well with control functions in the mid-drive, so that battery replacement should be more straightforward without having to have the dealer re-program anything using diagnostic programs.
By the way, the dealer diagnostics and cable for the Turbo line were never really designed for field support. The diagnostic interface is an obtuse "command line" set of code run from the "DOS" prompt on a Windows PC. Having worked with embedded microprocessors for years, it is obvious to me that this was designed as a software development tool that got thrown into the field without any real thought about how to deploy firmware fixes in the dealer chain or with the end-users.
So as soon as I get feedback from the Product Manager, I will try to respond with something more formal from Specialized.
Doug
I just got off the phone with the U.S. Product Manager for the Turbo line at Specialized HQ. I explained that battery availability is not just a warranty replacement issue for 24 months, but a long term support issue due to the proprietary nature of the battery system. I asked for a more formal statement about battery availability for the Turbo/Turbo X/Turbo S over the long term. I emphasized that this affects their ability to sell out their existing inventory since informed buyers are concerned about getting stuck with a piece of useless iron with zero residual value!
The "architecture" of the Turbo line creates an unfortunate characteristic in that all of the "smarts" for controlling the bike (not just battery management, but motor control, handlebar interface, bluetooth interface, etc.) is in the battery as opposed to the bike. The motor and handlebar controller are relatively dumb slaves to the battery. Thus if there is a battery failure, it is not just a matter of replacing cells, but also replacing the controller and bike settings, etc..
Newer systems like the Stromer ST2 have the "bike-specific smarts" embedded in the bike with a relatively dumb battery. Battery swaps do not affect the personality of the bike (features, odometer settings, etc.). The battery does have to deal with cell management and temp monitoring, but not much else. This makes batteries cheaper and potentially denser per watt and also makes the potential for 3rd party repack more likely. The Bosch and Brose also have relatively "dumb" batteries as well with control functions in the mid-drive, so that battery replacement should be more straightforward without having to have the dealer re-program anything using diagnostic programs.
By the way, the dealer diagnostics and cable for the Turbo line were never really designed for field support. The diagnostic interface is an obtuse "command line" set of code run from the "DOS" prompt on a Windows PC. Having worked with embedded microprocessors for years, it is obvious to me that this was designed as a software development tool that got thrown into the field without any real thought about how to deploy firmware fixes in the dealer chain or with the end-users.
So as soon as I get feedback from the Product Manager, I will try to respond with something more formal from Specialized.
Doug
Drew224
New Member
Thanks Doug for that....and look forward to what you find out. I called up that battery website...and found out some info from their tech guy and Rebecca that seems to know a lot as well. They work on specialized batteries...but the downtube style is one they can't guarantee. They said if you send it in...they'll crack it open....but not sure if they can fix it or not until they take a look at it. So for those of you that may have an older battery...and don't mind taking a risk...give them a call. Btw...tech guy is there Tuesday's and Thursday's.
Last edited:
ronin2000
Member
I've spoken to a tech at R.P.E. as well and they said I would have to send in the battery and charger for them to see what they can do. My bike is relatively new so I don’t think I will have to send it in for anytime in the near future. Im averaging 100 miles a week or less and I charge it about 2 times a week. Current avg consumption for the turbo is 2% per mile. This lack of new fresh batteries is concerning. It doesn’t make sense for Specialized to just stop making parts for a bike that they are still selling as new (2017 Turbo S).
ronin2000
Member
The turbo line has been around for only 3-4 years correct? Can we expect the Vado to be in production that long? I get that E bikes are in their infancy now, but not having support for at least another 3-5 years is down right criminal. What are we suppose to do with our paperweights when the battery/motor dies? Unless Specialized sends us some sort of certificate for a new bike id be royally miffed if my bike doesn’t have any support and its going to be down for 1 month 6 months etc...
Scott Adams
Active Member
The Turbo Levo bikes also have the bluetooth and other smarts in the battery. There are a lot of problems that could crop up over time. For example, Specialized will need to keep the mission control phone app current with the latest phones while still communicating with bikes which were discontinued several years prior.
As far as I can tell, this is the first product line of this complexity with software/battery/controller/motor/phone app for Specialized and supporting it well will take considerable effort. Unfortunately, I can imagine Specialized dealers aren't able to perform ebike specific repairs and if Specialized does not maintain significant stock for at least five years of motors and batteries it will become a very disappointing situation for buyers.
I'm surprised the product manager needed time to compose a response on this issue, it makes it sound as if they do not have a firm policy statement on long term support in place already, which they should have.
If any part of the electric drive system fails and cannot be readily repaired, these bikes become fifty pound beasts you couldn't give away.
James Kohls
Active Member
Great to see them on the site. Sadly, I am still underwhelmed by these new bikes.
Douglas Ruby
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Groton
I know that the Turbo Levo (and similar Vado) have bluetooth. Is the bluetooth function it in the battery or resident in the bike frame itself? A key issue is not just the bluetooth, but the actual motor control and on-bike interface functions (power settings, etc.). The microprocessor and firmware for this is entirely in the battery on the original Turbo. So a battery swap requires setting max speed, tire size, default ECO settings and odometer settings which otherwise would be lost. This makes the concept of having multiple batteries in "hot swap" (like in the ride Ravi Kempaiah did last year on an ST-2S where he worked with three batteries per day) more problematic.
I think that the business decisions about availability of spare batteries are being made by the Warranty department. The Product Manager deals with new bike introductions and sales of current lines. This is a business disconnect that is not uncommon in my 20+ year career as a high-tech product manager. Since the Turbo line was Specialized's first generation of e-bike, in the market from 2013 - 2017, I am not sure they fully appreciate the life-cycle support requirements. They will soon. But I believe that this person is responsible and look forward to a reasoned response from Specialized before we get too concerned.
Douglas Ruby
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Groton
Vado 3.0 = 250W motor, 460 Wh battery, $3,000, 40T chain ring, 11-40T 10-sp cassette, suspension fork
Vado 5.0 = 350W Motor, 604 Wh battery, $5,000, 48T chain ring, 11-42T 11-sp cassette, solid fork
Turbo S = 500W Motor, 691 Wh battery, $7,000, 48T chain ring, 11-42T 11-sp cassette, solid fork
Notice the difference in gearing. Based on this, I would guess that the Vado 3.0 is realistically a 20 mph e-bike while the Vado 5.0 is definitely a speed pedelec. The gearing on the Vado 5.0 is the same as the Turbo S. Tires are 700x47 on the 3.0 and 700x51 on the 5.0 which enhances the gearing difference. Both come with fenders and Racktime rack with embedded taillight. The headlight is 300 lumens on the Vado 3.0 and 600 lumens on the Vado 5.0.
Vado 5.0 = 350W Motor, 604 Wh battery, $5,000, 48T chain ring, 11-42T 11-sp cassette, solid fork
Turbo S = 500W Motor, 691 Wh battery, $7,000, 48T chain ring, 11-42T 11-sp cassette, solid fork
Notice the difference in gearing. Based on this, I would guess that the Vado 3.0 is realistically a 20 mph e-bike while the Vado 5.0 is definitely a speed pedelec. The gearing on the Vado 5.0 is the same as the Turbo S. Tires are 700x47 on the 3.0 and 700x51 on the 5.0 which enhances the gearing difference. Both come with fenders and Racktime rack with embedded taillight. The headlight is 300 lumens on the Vado 3.0 and 600 lumens on the Vado 5.0.
Douglas Ruby
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Groton
ronin2000,
Let's wait and see. I am certain that regional sales folks and dealers are NOT going to have all of the information on long term availability of drive system parts (handlebar controller, batteries, and motors) for the Turbo family. All of the rest (brakes, mech, rims, spokes, tires, racks, fenders, etc.) can be sourced easily in the 3rd party market. But it is important that Specialized be clear with Turbo owners about the proprietary parts that we will need to keep these bikes going.
One of the things they could do as an alternative to a "5-year support" program would be to offer a very attractive "trade-in" program for existing Turbo owners if the cost to keep the GoSwissDrive stuff supported would be more than the cost of selling a finite number of future bikes at some discounted price. (Example - Buy a Vado 3.0 for $1,500 with the trade-in of a base Turbo, a Turbo 5.0 for $3,000 for a Turbo X or pre-2016 Turbo S).
Doug
Let's wait and see. I am certain that regional sales folks and dealers are NOT going to have all of the information on long term availability of drive system parts (handlebar controller, batteries, and motors) for the Turbo family. All of the rest (brakes, mech, rims, spokes, tires, racks, fenders, etc.) can be sourced easily in the 3rd party market. But it is important that Specialized be clear with Turbo owners about the proprietary parts that we will need to keep these bikes going.
One of the things they could do as an alternative to a "5-year support" program would be to offer a very attractive "trade-in" program for existing Turbo owners if the cost to keep the GoSwissDrive stuff supported would be more than the cost of selling a finite number of future bikes at some discounted price. (Example - Buy a Vado 3.0 for $1,500 with the trade-in of a base Turbo, a Turbo 5.0 for $3,000 for a Turbo X or pre-2016 Turbo S).
Doug
Similar threads
