The all new Stromer ST5 ABS

[bluecat]

-4.5amp charge speed is not V. fast as described, try 8amp(Grin Tech) or 10amps with the right charger

If I could earn money by selling high end batteries, I would do the same: Tell the customers to charge them at highest current ever.

This is definitely reduce the batteries lifetime quickly - and I can sell a new one

Will Vanmoof become the Theranos of the 45 commuter bike industrie?

 

[Ebiker01]

If I could earn money by selling high end batteries, I would do the same: Tell the customers to charge them at highest current ever.

This is definitely reduce the batteries lifetime quickly - and I can sell a new one

Will Vanmoof become the Theranos of the 45 commuter bike industrie?

What a Doofus , since when is charging @ 0.4-0.5C for a 20amp battery an issue ?? If u had said this 6-7years ago, maybe it would have been forgivable but u also claim to know a lot about ebikes...

And ur comparing Vanmoof to Therano , that tells us all we need to know about u. If you haven't realized there a lot of smart people that r ebike owners and they know the market... that's why we have 10,000 reservation for the Vanmoof V model.

And prob. over 2-3million of Vanmoof owners . U do realize they are not a start up...
Pack up and looks for a job there , i would strongly advise !

 

[evolvable]

Okay, Court says the bike is one of the fastest accelerating bikes he's ever ridden. Yet this bike only has 48nm of torque. I was told by an ebike store owner in Vancouver that watts is overrated and a bikes acceleration/power really comes down to nm of torque. So either I misunderstood, or maybe he was wrong and watts is the more important factor in acceleration/power.

The fact that its a hub motor might also help explain the acceleration, but I'm not completely sure why. Anybody have insight into the nm/watt dichotomy when it comes to accleration/power?

MOTOR NOMINAL OUTPUT:​

650 watts

MOTOR PEAK OUTPUT:​

850 watts

MOTOR TORQUE:​

48 Newton meters

 

[Petropoliskhan]

After Court's review , more things can be known about this ebike.

My op.:

Some minuses i noticed with that ST5 Abs model:

- kickstand location deserves a huge dislike and it can not be located in the rear unless drilling into the frame
- racktime racks r no good
-Pirelli tires r way too thick for front, cornering becomes not that good
-4.5amp charge speed is not V. fast as described, try 8amp(Grin Tech) or 10amps with the right charger
- Major dislike is the handlebar lack of adjustability (it would need a new design)
- Major dislike with the display being out of view and actually it creates quite a dangerous sit. when a rider will look down @ it while riding
- Major dislike with the 77-80lbs weight once the Wren fork is installed
-Major dislike with the lack of dealers/support , maybe 3-5 of them in the whole Us
-Major dislike that a throttle is not included which would have been just an xtra cable and the throttle itself

Many Major likes are present but the dislikes (esp. that nerdy handlebar ) just make it a museum of art only piece .

Obviously, buying a Stromer translates into : Need a great mech. nearby and a great dealer.

The Vanmoof V @ only 4-5k will absolutly delete this model or any model from this brand from everyone's option list !

Stromer dealers in Us:
Only 6-7states with dealers, only 3 dealers in TX, Tx is about the same size of Europe..

C Belgium 50+dealers and Europe service vs Us !

Hi ebiker, I think you're being unfair with some of your comments.
- Kickstand location: This bike is heavy. Perhaps the reason it is located there is because it needs to be there to avoid it tipping over. Perhaps it is there because there isn't enough room on the chain stay b/c motor cable, very large disk etc...
- Racktime works fine . (it is optional if you don't like its look) it can take up to 22,5kgs which is plenty. This is a sporty commuter not a cargo bike also it is illegal to put a child seat on a Speed pedelec in most european countries . If it is your intention to haul more stuff a "trailer hitch" thing may be mounted optionally;
-Charger: Of course there are more powerful chargers available à la Grintech 360$ !!!! for anyone who believes 4,5 charge speed is too slow. Perhaps you could name 1 well known , premium bike brand that offers a Satiator standard with their bikes.
I know that Stromer is working on a new generation of 1400Wh batteries for it's 2022 flagship model and possibly a new more powerful charger.
-Handlebar: Yes it is fixed. Some people love it, some hate it. The reason it isn't adjustable is b/c of the integration of all the cables , brake tubes into the stem for that beautiful uncluttered look.
Form over function. Although not the most comfortable I've gotten used to it and love the look of the bike. Pretty much everyone that has commented on the bike praises its clean design.
ST3 has 2 different stems and 2 handlebars.
-Display: You are right it is too low to be seen without taking eyes off the road. In practice this isn't a real issue. There are only 3 data point of interest that I regularly like to see. Assist level, battery percentage and speed. Speed for vanity purposes. Assist and battery important but can be seen through a very quick glance ( no more intrusive than looking at your rearview mirror thanks to clear infographics). The more you ride the less you are concerned with looking at the screen. You feel the bike, come to know its behavior, ultimately forget about the gadgetry and just concentrate on enjoying your very fast/fun ride
-Weight: Yes it is heavy. Only an issue when carrying/ lifting. Never an issue when riding. This bike is fast and nimble, agile . The Wren fork although heavy, significantly increases the 'plantedness' ,stability, grip , comfort. I have never felt it compromised in any way the handling of the bike. Ever tried to carry a Riese & Muller Supercharger or Superdelight ?
-Dealers: I live in Belgium, so plenty of competent dealers. Peace of mind...
-Throttle: Throttles illegal on Class 3 bikes in Europe (primary market). This bike is marketed as a sporty model for people who actually want to pedal. The motor is very powerful and can provide loads of assist in any gear negating the need for a throttle ( at start up or on an incline).

Vanmoof: Very nice looking bike! double suspension, front & rear motor, lights integration, 50km/h !!!. Lots of innovation (and potential problems (new tech)). Smallish battery ( 700wh) given the advertised performance. That fork looks beefy to me, and the weight of that second motor up front... Pricing is attractive. We'll have to wait and see if it fulfills its promises.

By the way, have you ever ridden an ST5?

 

[Petropoliskhan]

Okay, Court says the bike is one of the fastest accelerating bikes he's ever ridden. Yet this bike only has 48nm of torque. I was told by an ebike store owner in Vancouver that watts is overrated and a bikes acceleration/power really comes down to nm of torque. So either I misunderstood, or maybe he was wrong and watts is the more important factor in acceleration/power.

The fact that its a hub motor might also help explain the acceleration, but I'm not completely sure why. Anybody have insight into the nm/watt dichotomy when it comes to accleration/power?

MOTOR NOMINAL OUTPUT:​

650 watts

MOTOR PEAK OUTPUT:​

850 watts

MOTOR TORQUE:​

48 Newton meters

Hi evolvable, torque delivery has been discussed many times in these pages by way more knowledgeable people than me. See search function .
Short answer is :when the motor is inside the wheel , it drive drives that wheel directly with no loss of torque through the transmission ( chain- derailleur). Therefore that 48Nm is actually applied vs mid drives which advertise way higher torque figures measured from the output of the motor before losses occur through the transmission with much lower torque actually applied where it matters.
My understanding is that torque (amps) gives you acceleration and high voltage gives the ability to attain high speed and maintain it.
Typically motors are copper wound for either high torque or high speed . It is complicated to do both which is probably why Stromer motors are significantly more expensive and refined than their chinese cheap counterparts.

 

[bluecat]

The fact that its a hub motor might also help explain the acceleration, but I'm not completely sure why. Anybody have insight into the nm/watt dichotomy when it comes to accleration/power?

That's not all!

The key point is: Are you able to call the power? Only a short rider can release the whole power of the ST5. You can easily monitor this on the power rating bar on the display. The 1st issue during acceleration ist to shift gear as fast as you accelerate. That's why you have the Di2. The 2nd point is having enough grip while accelerating out of a corner. For this, you have the Pirelli (and soon the Pirelli Angel).

 

[Ebiker01]

Racktime works fine . (it is optional if you don't like its look) it can take up to 22,5kgs which is plenty.

Even with 10-15kg ,@ 25-27mph on bad
roads this rack does not last long Speaking from exp.
U r in the best place to be (Belgium) for a Stromer owner ! How many of them do you notice on a long ride ?

Looks like they will have the 21700cells in next gen. BMZ battery. That and a carbon fiber frame would make this ebike better.

 

[Ebiker01]

MOTOR PEAK OUTPUT:​

850 watts

Controller is 30amps
Motor is 48v

48x30=1.4 KW (1440watts) Peak Power

Why aren't they delimiting this controller for higher speeds ??

 

[Johnny]

Yet this bike only has 48nm of torque.

That is torque at the rear wheel since it is a dd hub. Don't compare torque values unless they are measured at the same point.

The graph that one needs is power vs rpm graph. Unfortunately only maximum values are reported hence it can be misleading.

Power = Torque x rpm. Since hub is on the wheel, rpm is completely dependent on the speed, the more power you have the more torque you get. At very slow speeds rpm will be small hence max torque will simply be the limiting factor for power that is probably why people feel like the torque value is more important for hub motors.

This thing has been thoroughly explained in quite a few posts so I will leave it at that.

 

[Ebiker01]

The graph that one needs is power vs rpm graph

Used Grin simulator, but some of the variables i input (motor/controller) could be better:

Motor Simulator - Tools

Our ebike motor simulator allows you to easily simulate the different performance characteristics of different ebike setups - with a wide selection of hub motors modeled, and the ability to add custom batteries and controllers and set a wide variety of vehicle parameters you'll be able to see...

ebikes.ca

 

[Ebiker01]

Kickstand location: This bike is heavy. Perhaps the reason it is located there is because it needs to be there to avoid it tipping over. Perhaps it is there because there isn't enough room on the chain stay b/c motor cable, very large disk etc...

def. they could have put it in the back but only an Ursus stand would work there b/c off the weight+ maybe ~20-25lbs for locks & another 20-25lbs for gear in panniers.

Anyway from all dislikes , for my preference, this is the biggest because often a rider needs to push the bike backwards and that will definitely scratch the cranks/kickstand.

Rode a 2019 St5 , i have a faster , hub driven ebike (55lbs weight) with a similar motor and 90NM torque; in my case the St5 was a LOT slower.
But i don't have regen braking, that feature it's great.

 

[Ebiker01]

50km/h !!!.

Actually 59.54kmh =37mph top speed, most likely 40mph with two motors and a rider under 200lbs.
For 1 ST5 , one could get 3 Vanmoof V's .

 

[Petropoliskhan]

Even with 10-15kg ,@ 25-27moh on bad
roads this rack does not last long Speaking from exp.
U r in the best place to be (Belgium) for a Stromer owner ! How many of them do you notice on a long ride ?

Looks like they will have the 21700cells in next gen. BMZ battery. That and a carbon fiber frame would make this ebike better.

Even with 10-15kg ,@ 25-27moh on bad
roads this rack does not last long Speaking from exp.
U r in the best place to be (Belgium) for a Stromer owner ! How many of them do you notice on a long ride ?

Looks like they will have the 21700cells in next gen. BMZ battery. That and a carbon fiber frame would make this ebike better.

Even with 10-15kg ,@ 25-27moh on bad
roads this rack does not last long Speaking from exp.
U r in the best place to be (Belgium) for a Stromer owner ! How many of them do you notice on a long ride ?

Looks like they will have the 21700cells in next gen. BMZ battery. That and a carbon fiber frame would make this ebike better.

Hey Ebiker, I ride with double panniers by racktime ( partially seen in my avatar) often loaded and have had some occurences when the bottom of the panniers flop against the wheel spokes but the rack has been rock solid. Roads surfaces are less than ideal in Belgium.
Yes Belgium has tax and employer incentives to help with the financing of this very expensive bike. I am lucky to benefit from these. I also have a very knowledgeable dealer close by.
Some will like the larger battery (it's going to be VERY expensive). My 983wh battery suffices.
IMO carbon frames are great for competition road / mtb bikes, unnecessary on a commuter bike that is powered by me and a very powerful motor. the weight saving is only useful when carrying the bike and would add a lot of $$$ to an already expensive bike.

 

[Petropoliskhan]

Actually 59.54kmh =37mph top speed, most likely 40mph with two motors and a rider under 200lbs.
For 1 ST5 , one could get 3 Vanmoof V's .

That's nice. I would love that. unfortunately illegal pretty much everywhere and you know it.
I really enjoy this bike. why is it so hard for you to admit/ understand that?
Do you know that Belgium ,the Netherlands are the biggest speed pedelec market in the world and that Stromer commands a roughly 35% market share of that. In spite of the cost, the complication, the rear hub, the kickstand in the wrong place etc, etc,etc
We have huge choice of best brands available .Trek, Specialized, Riese & Muller, Gazelle, Giant, VanMoof, Flyer, BH and many more are available. and yet Stromer is the overwhelming favorite in the segment of fast commuter bikes. Don't believe me?
Check this out: https://leva-eu.com/speed-pedelec-sales-falter-in-belgium-and-the-netherlands/

That new Van Moof looks promising we will have to see if they manage to keep thair promises, but up to now VanMoofs have not been seriously compared to a Stromer. Different league.

 

[Petropoliskhan]

Controller is 30amps
Motor is 48v

48x30=1.4 KW (1440watts) Peak Power

Why aren't they delimiting this controller for higher speeds ??

That would make them illegal

 

[Ebiker01]

Do you know that Belgium ,the Netherlands are the biggest speed pedelec market in the world and that Stromer commands a roughly 35% market share of that. In spite of the cost, the complication, the rear hub, the kickstand in the wrong place etc, etc,etc
We have huge choice of best brands available .Trek, Specialized, Riese & Muller, Gazelle, Giant, VanMoof, Flyer, BH and many more are available. and yet Stromer is the overwhelming favorite in the segment of fast commuter bikes. Don't believe me?

That also speaks volume about the immense reliability of hub motors. My hub motos gears r in perfect cond with 15k miles aready. No, already 16k

Regards to popularity of Stromer. I knew it for many years, with the dealers there it's very normal. My 1st choice was an St2 LTD in chrome back in 2018. 1 month later the store closed down. I've settled for a better pedelec imo , the famous BH Nitro city. Now , with BH out of Us, that option is no longer avlb. for many. At least i can fix anything on it and a Grin Tech 40amp Baserunnet L9 controller for it is 150$ vs 450$ for a 30amp controller for Stromer.


If i were in Eu i would have gone with hub motor also, 3 choices left , well only 2 besides Stromer one (Bh no longer makes hub motor ebikes) now: Stromer .And I know also how to fix everything on it so that's a bonus .

Klever: 8500€
Coleen DB: 9900€
Stromer St3 LTD/ST5 : 9-12k €



Hard choices to make, but the people at that french company did fantastic work. All 3 models would make a great garage.Top it all off with a 4th , the new 2022 Stromer.

U guys have good options there for a high end hub motor ebike . Here there are zero options ( Well the only one would be Stromer but because of the lack of dealers that could be problematic for many).

For Stromer tthere are only 2 dealers in Ny/Nj area. The whole east coast of Us has 9 of them
. That's like 6-7 X the size of Europe. Belgium is about 1/3 (sq miles) the size of NY state and has at least 50 dealers ?
And I'm sure you know many people in Eu also ride this S pedelecs without insurance/registration/plate.

 

[Ebiker01]

That would make them illegal

Off road mode only

I like the missing kickstand on this prototype ! I wonder what will they charge for the 1.4kw battery ? 3k euros /3399€ ?

If i had an ebike store in Eu, the fee for a flat repair :

Stromer ST 2022 Modell flache Reparatur: 99 €/79€*

*after joining the member's only club(199€ fee)

 

[Ebiker01]

Hey Ebiker, I ride with double panniers by racktime ( partially seen in my avatar) often loaded and have had some occurences when the bottom of the panniers flop against the wheel spokes but the rack has been rock solid.

Having all the suport on only 2 beams ...not sturdy.

Mine has 4 Al beams and had an instance where I used a racktime basket and I don't know maybe I put like 40 pounds and one connector for the rack has broken, so I had to have it welded. It is actually okay for carrying heavy stuff with panniers . But when using the accessories (the racktime boxes that connect on top of the rack that come with it, the connectors are not very well built. And also the baskets are very flimsy, only that sturdy box/basket in the picsmade by them is durable enough to carry stuff @25-30mph.

That racktime on my ebike is a lot stronger then what's on the St5, but for US roads (many 10inch potholes) it's still not good.

I use mostly panniers now, no issues xcept the paint scratching off from the rack sides. Covered in tape and it's bit better.

 

[Ebiker01]

Wow $20 buck to reserve one?

I won't be surprised if people did this res. for five- 10 pieces to resell them at a much higher price !

 

[bluecat]

It was July, 15th 2020 as I published the first teaser for the upcoming Stromer ST5 ABS. Only at the end of August, the bike was presented to the public at the „Stromer Universe Public Day Switzerland". I did my first test ride on the same event - and of course the first tests of the ABS. Meanwhile, the bike is on the market and the improved blubrake system is coming. With respect of the much earlier release of the Bosch ABS system, blubrake might be seen as a newcomer. The existence of at least two ABS systems on the marked and the long time since the unveiling of the Stromer ST5 ABS let me ask:

Where are the competitors?

So, I'm looking out for real competition in the field of the Street Legal 45 km/h Gearless Hub Drive Commuter Bikes. Therefore, motorcycles, lorries and whatever are out of scope. However, beside the ABS bikes on the market, announcements of upcoming ABS bikes would also be seen as competition.

Defender	Real Challenger	Announced Challenger
Stromer ST5 ABS	1.	1.
-	2.	2.