Sub $3000 Leisure/Commuter Bike For Hilly Area [Final Choice: Priority Current]

[Achterbahn]

Cheap by nature, I love finding a great/awesome deal on "used". When looking up anything on Amazon, I've learned to watch for a "used" item like the one I'm looking at. I've found these are generally unused returns. For instance, I bought my first Thudbuster LT for 80 some dollars - "used". Worst case, it won't be in it's original packing. Most times, that's a "so what!".

Not the same deal, but just got my first Thudbuster ST for $60. According to the owner, he bought it earlier this year, used on a single very long 300mile ride, and never again.

 

[AHicks]

Right size I hope?

 

[Achterbahn]

Also today I started looking at insurance. If I'm going to spend $3000 and live in a big city, I think insurance is worth thinking about.

I realized that most renter's insurance policies don't cover e-bikes. Velosurance is $250/yr for my area and a $3000 bike.

 

[Art Deco]

Check with an independent insurance agent...decades ago renter's insurance covered stuff I had in a rented garage. IDK what's available now, but an agent should know.

 

[Achterbahn]

Check with an independent insurance agent...decades ago renter's insurance covered stuff I had in a rented garage. IDK what's available now, but an agent should know.

Right. I'm going about it slowly. I checked with Lemonade (the cheapest renter's insurance) and State Farm so far. Both categorize ebikes as motorized vehicles and exclude them from the renter's policy.

 

[Art Deco]

IDK Lemonade but State Farm is captive agents only, not independents. So is Nationwide and Geico. You need an independent insurance agent that probably doesn't have a national presence. Again ... just my two cents.

 

[Quick514Biker]

One of the things I've learned from last year and my discussions, is that perfect is the enemy of the good. Last year I had the same mentality, always waiting for a shiny new model that would solve everything. In the end, there was always a problem with it. The R1U mid drive will be announced soon but will only be available in July/August of 2021. I have decided to draw a line in the sand and I want a bike by mid January. I spent the last year walking around the city thinking of how good it would be if I actually had the bike - now is time to actually get one.

The LMT'D is the cheap version of my requirements. It's cheap (currently $1650), comfortable, ok power and range, torque sensor, and only 51lbs - good value for what it is. Now, an online bike in the $2200s starts to become a riskier investment. R1U doesn't seem to have terrible customer service, but I'd still worry. At that price I'd probably prefer to go with either a $2700 Momentum, for the LBS support, or the $2700 Priority Current, for the 2 year warranty and overall great customer service reputation.

Lastly regarding hills, keep in mind this was my first ever experience with a mid drive bike, so everything was brand new to me. I may not have done the most optimized use of the bike. It was about only half a mile. Also, this was my first bike ride in multiple months.

Exactly, I'd compare the Rize with the Juiced. It's definitely built for raw power. More power means more consumption, which means bigger battery, which means significant weight. The Juiced has an even bigger battery, at 52v 19.2ah. It obviously is much better than the Juiced, as the price shows. Mid drive, better components, etc.

I personally did not think the shifting was problematic. It was just the first time I experienced having to stop pedaling to shift. It wasn't inherently negative. You also gain the ability to s*it at a complete stop. I often need to stop at stoplights in the middle of a hill, so shifting down from there would be very helpful.

Mobile bike services is a great topic - and this again is when we return to the world of online bikes. I am very confident I can securely assemble any online ebike. However, many companies, probably to avoid liability, say that in order for the warranty to be valid, the bike has to either be assembled or checked by a professional. This is where living in the Bay Area gets painfully expensive. Assembling an ebike with velofix in SF costs $250 per bike. This is quite a bit - 10-15% of the value of the bike. The tune package, which basically would mean an inspection of the assembled bike, would cost $150. Still a lot in my opinion.

The test ride you did on the $2700 Momentum, how much time were you allowed to do the test ride for? Did they charge you for it(the money could be deducted later, if you do end up buying from that LBS)? Have you asked the LBS for recommendations on the best e-bike for your needs?

 

[Achterbahn]

The test ride you did on the $2700 Momentum, how much time were you allowed to do the test ride for? Did they charge you for it(the money could be deducted later, if you do end up buying from that LBS)? Have you asked the LBS for recommendations on the best e-bike for your needs?

Went to a LBS - they literally only had one ebike in store and it was the Momentum Transcend. They walked me out the door w/ the bike and said - we are having a very slow day today, spend as long as you want with the bike. I spent probably an hour - didn't want to overstay my welcome. They charge me nothing, but kept my ID + CC during the ride. They were super nice - told me to come back later in the year when they might have more models for me to try out.

 

[Quick514Biker]

A few points. First, part of the Rize Rx and RX Pro bike's weight is due to the battery they come with. It's 19.2 ah. That makes it one of the biggest available, and that capacity translates directly into more weight. Quite a bit more weight.

Second, name brand brake, shifter and derailleurs, do have different quality levels available, but they are ALL serviceable. Makes no difference what bike they've been installed on. Noteworthy is the fact the Rize RX and Pro come with the best 9 speed derailleur offered by Shimano. In this same vein, A Bafang Ultra motor will be no different from one bike to another. Rize does offer it with a shift detector (shuts the power off for a split second during a shift in case you forget to). Not all do.

If you think shifting might provide a challenge, to minimize that challenge you might consider that the hub drives are far less picky when it comes to that. That's the reason some consider them "easier to ride". They're as happy taking off while you're in first or 7nth gear - assuming you have a throttle equipped bike.

And last, I don't remember if mobile bike services has been brought up. These are mobile rigs that will assemble a new bike for you, then service it any time you need work done. Not free, but pretty reasonable from what I've heard. You can actually arrange for your new bike to be shipped to them, they assemble it and check it out, then deliver it to your front door. Check out velofix.com to see if they have anyone local to you. They're actually certified warranty repair for a few companies. -Al

You got me more interested in the Rize RX/RX Pro Bafang Ultra motor bikes the past few days. A couple of quick questions from browsing info on these Rize bikes(it might help also the OP in deciding). On throttle alone what's the top speed that you got on your Rize RX Pro(at Rize website it says 35mph!!!). What's the top speed with pedal assist(it doesn't say on Rize website)? What's the controller used for these Rize bikes & is it pretty good(is the controller built in the Bafang display?)? The security feature available to Rize bikes is the security lock feature(LCD Secure Lock). Do you use it, by enabling it(requiring an access code to open the LCD screen, otherwise the LCD screen cannot be opened by outsiders)? With Bafang Ultra motor, the Rize RX would have zero problems climbing hills in San Francisco. Among the e-bikes with Bafang Ultra motor, the Rize RX bikes are much lower priced.

 

[AHicks]

Top speed = fast. I'm the wrong guy to answer this question, but I don't see it struggling to crack 30 at all. Thing is, I've had several bikes that could easily crack 30mph now, so that novelty is gone. From what I've seen/read about, I'm not the only one in that same boat. When you see what speeds over about 15 mph do to your battery mileage (due to wind resistance among other things), they become tough to justify.

The controller is built into the motor, Bafang makes it, and they have a pretty good reputation. However, if you're inclined to abuse it with something like a wide open take off from a standing start in high gear, or maybe climbing a long steep hill in too high a gear, it IS possible to overheat/blow them. The motor is thermally protected, designed to shut down if it gets hot.

The really nice thing about the Ultra, to this rider/tinkerer, is that I can hook it up to a laptop and customize any piece of it I want. It's completely unlocked (a rare feature in my experience). Everything from required pedal effort, the amount of power it gets when first applying throttle, amount of power allowed in each PAS level, ALL OF IT, is completely customizable. If that's not enough, there are some aftermarket controllers available. Not cheap by any imagination (think 1000.), but written so the software controlling the motor is state of the art, as well as the components used to build it.

You can password protect the bike using the LCD display if you like, but that's not a real secure way to prevent theft. At best, they'll still be able to ride the bike away un-powered. My bike is either locked up in my garage when I'm not on it, or locked to a small utility trailer I use to move my bike and the wife's to local scenic trails for rides there. So no, I don't use that built in "security".

The Ultra powered bikes have over the top power, the most available anywhere to my understanding. So yes, it's going to climb any hill you point it at. If you can't make a hill, it's because YOU screwed up. The bike will be perfectly willing.

I shopped for a couple of months prior to settling on the Rize. Looked at all sorts of stuff, including belt drives. In the end, the belt driven transmissions scared me. Those eliminated, I worked on a bucks spent for bang received as I could care less about "support". I do all of my own work anyway. So, bucks spent for bang received, I found the Ultra powered Rize tough to beat.... -Al

 

[Achterbahn]

Top speed = fast. I'm the wrong guy to answer this question, but I don't see it struggling to crack 30 at all. Thing is, I've had several bikes that could easily crack 30mph now, so that novelty is gone. From what I've seen/read about, I'm not the only one in that same boat. When you see what speeds over about 15 mph do to your battery mileage (due to wind resistance among other things), they become tough to justify.

The controller is built into the motor, Bafang makes it, and they have a pretty good reputation. However, if you're inclined to abuse it with something like a wide open take off from a standing start in high gear, or maybe climbing a long steep hill in too high a gear, it IS possible to overheat/blow them. The motor is thermally protected, designed to shut down if it gets hot.

The really nice thing about the Ultra, to this rider/tinkerer, is that I can hook it up to a laptop and customize any piece of it I want. It's completely unlocked (a rare feature in my experience). Everything from required pedal effort, the amount of power it gets when first applying throttle, amount of power allowed in each PAS level, ALL OF IT, is completely customizable. If that's not enough, there are some aftermarket controllers available. Not cheap by any imagination (think 1000.), but written so the software controlling the motor is state of the art, as well as the components used to build it.

You can password protect the bike using the LCD display if you like, but that's not a real secure way to prevent theft. At best, they'll still be able to ride the bike away un-powered. My bike is either locked up in my garage when I'm not on it, or locked to a small utility trailer I use to move my bike and the wife's to local scenic trails for rides there. So no, I don't use that built in "security".

The Ultra powered bikes have over the top power, the most available anywhere to my understanding. So yes, it's going to climb any hill you point it at. If you can't make a hill, it's because YOU screwed up. The bike will be perfectly willing.

I shopped for a couple of months prior to settling on the Rize. Looked at all sorts of stuff, including belt drives. In the end, the belt driven transmissions scared me. Those eliminated, I worked on a bucks spent for bang received as I could care less about "support". I do all of my own work anyway. So, bucks spent for bang received, I found the Ultra powered Rize tough to beat.... -Al

Yes, you're absolutely right. With everything it offers and just the raw power, it's a fantastic deal. Especially for people like you, who can work on their own bikes!

 

[Ckbtvl]

IDK Lemonade but State Farm is captive agents only, not independents. So is Nationwide and Geico. You need an independent insurance agent that probably doesn't have a national presence. Again ... just my two cents.

From my research on the same issue, very few states will cover the Ebike under owner, renter, umbrella, etc policies. Markel insurance is the independent company and ever Velo gets under written by Markel. Erie told me even if the house burns down, that my comprehensive will not cover. Prices on 3000.00 bikes are not too bad, but their have very low coverages beyond the bike like accident and liability. Still, when the bikes get here, I will insure.

 

[Achterbahn]

From my research on the same issue, very few states will cover the Ebike under owner, renter, umbrella, etc policies. Markel insurance is the independent company and ever Velo gets under written by Markel. Erie told me even if the house burns down, that my comprehensive will not cover. Prices on 3000.00 bikes are not too bad, but their have very low coverages beyond the bike like accident and liability. Still, when the bikes get here, I will insure.

Exactly, both Markel and Velo quoted me at $250-300/yr on a $3k bike.

 

[Ckbtvl]

Exactly, both Markel and Velo quoted me at $250-300/yr on a $3k bike.

Markel did tell me that claims are faster if you deal directly with them rather than a re-seller. If I had a local I would use them but it’s all to one company so I will go direct

 

[Quick514Biker]

Top speed = fast. I'm the wrong guy to answer this question, but I don't see it struggling to crack 30 at all. Thing is, I've had several bikes that could easily crack 30mph now, so that novelty is gone. From what I've seen/read about, I'm not the only one in that same boat. When you see what speeds over about 15 mph do to your battery mileage (due to wind resistance among other things), they become tough to justify.

The controller is built into the motor, Bafang makes it, and they have a pretty good reputation. However, if you're inclined to abuse it with something like a wide open take off from a standing start in high gear, or maybe climbing a long steep hill in too high a gear, it IS possible to overheat/blow them. The motor is thermally protected, designed to shut down if it gets hot.

The really nice thing about the Ultra, to this rider/tinkerer, is that I can hook it up to a laptop and customize any piece of it I want. It's completely unlocked (a rare feature in my experience). Everything from required pedal effort, the amount of power it gets when first applying throttle, amount of power allowed in each PAS level, ALL OF IT, is completely customizable. If that's not enough, there are some aftermarket controllers available. Not cheap by any imagination (think 1000.), but written so the software controlling the motor is state of the art, as well as the components used to build it.

You can password protect the bike using the LCD display if you like, but that's not a real secure way to prevent theft. At best, they'll still be able to ride the bike away un-powered. My bike is either locked up in my garage when I'm not on it, or locked to a small utility trailer I use to move my bike and the wife's to local scenic trails for rides there. So no, I don't use that built in "security".

The Ultra powered bikes have over the top power, the most available anywhere to my understanding. So yes, it's going to climb any hill you point it at. If you can't make a hill, it's because YOU screwed up. The bike will be perfectly willing.

I shopped for a couple of months prior to settling on the Rize. Looked at all sorts of stuff, including belt drives. In the end, the belt driven transmissions scared me. Those eliminated, I worked on a bucks spent for bang received as I could care less about "support". I do all of my own work anyway. So, bucks spent for bang received, I found the Ultra powered Rize tough to beat.... -Al

Didn't realize until now, that it was you(I had forgotten). Before getting the Rize RX Pro, you had decided to get another bike with Bafang Ultra motor, the Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra 1000 bike. You seemed to have no regrets with purchasing the Rize RX Pro instead, & you said you save about a grand(both bikes seemed to have around the same base price, so you were planning to get extra cost options for Biktrix bike?). My worries on the Rize bikes would probably be same as OD here. Lack of LBS support & can't test the bike beforehand(it's much less important for you). With that powerful e-bike motor, I would need to be careful with overtaxing the drivetrain(those drivetrain parts were not originally built for this type of power).

I was interested LCD Secure Lock, as a good extra layer of protection against bike theft(I would use several layers of bike protection). I know you wanted a fat tire e-bike, but for your needs the Rize RX bike probably would of been better choice since you're using it quite a bit for pavement riding(& you quickly switched your tires after Rize bike purchase from knobby tires to street tires)?

 

[AHicks]

Yes, that was me. They seriously pissed off a buyer with their insulting innuendos, without even acknowledging the fact they messed up. It will be a cold day in hell before they get a chance to do that again....

The extra money, the difference between the Rize and the Biktrix was when comparing bikes with similar battery sizes. At the time, there was no Ultra Pro and Ultra, they only had what they now call the Pro. It's funny now, as I had inquired at the time regarding a set of forks for the Pro that would allow the front fender to be mounted in a more conventional position, resulting in a pretty emphatic what you see is what you get (contrary to the "custom" options they talk about). Anyway, it was just after our dust up they brought out the regular Juggernaut (that I would have preferred). That's a new model - that was originally only available as the Pro. So there was that.... Then there's the difference in the stock battery prices. The Rize comes STANDARD with the 19.2ah, and the Biktrix 21ah was a 700. option (realize it's a little less now). Then there's shipping.... The Rize is free.....

As far as tire size, you're right. I knew I would be changing the knobbies out for a street tread going into it - mostly due to the difference in noise when used on pavement. That experience (learn something new all the time!) taught me about "self steering" of street tires that size on pavement. Not a HUGE deal, just one I thought could be improved on with some 26x3" tires - which proved correct. I'm happy with that move, and those tires (Kenda Flame).

The reason I didn't go with the 27.5 tires is regarding the bike's height. I'm plenty tall enough for that, but swinging this 70 year old leg over that rack and seat was a lesson already learned. I sold a 29'er not too long ago due to issues with that AND stand over height. Much happier on a smaller bike, and I can still get plenty of extension. Tough call for me regarding going 27.5 to start with. I really like the look of the 3" tires on the wide rims, and they do pretty good in loose gravel and sand....

That LCD lock, if you were to have an extra LCD handy, all you would have to do is plug it in and you would be gone with full power available. That's if you wanted to take the time to power it up. You could ride it away without power any time. I don't think much of that option. Mostly sales hype as far as I can see it.

As far as the drive train, that's a jump you need to make when considering mid drive. As I've mentioned before, there are big, and very powerful gear driven hub drives available as an option for those wanting that kind of power that are willing/able to get there hands dirty with a conversion. Does that cover it? Sorry if I've missed anything. -Al

 

[Quick514Biker]

Yes, that was me. They seriously pissed off a buyer with their insulting innuendos, without even acknowledging the fact they messed up. It will be a cold day in hell before they get a chance to do that again....

The extra money, the difference between the Rize and the Biktrix was when comparing bikes with similar battery sizes. At the time, there was no Ultra Pro and Ultra, they only had what they now call the Pro. It's funny now, as I had inquired at the time regarding a set of forks for the Pro that would allow the front fender to be mounted in a more conventional position, resulting in a pretty emphatic what you see is what you get (contrary to the "custom" options they talk about). Anyway, it was just after our dust up they brought out the regular Juggernaut (that I would have preferred). That's a new model - that was originally only available as the Pro. So there was that.... Then there's the difference in the stock battery prices. The Rize comes STANDARD with the 19.2ah, and the Biktrix 21ah was a 700. option (realize it's a little less now). Then there's shipping.... The Rize is free.....

As far as tire size, you're right. I knew I would be changing the knobbies out for a street tread going into it - mostly due to the difference in noise when used on pavement. That experience (learn something new all the time!) taught me about "self steering" of street tires that size on pavement. Not a HUGE deal, just one I thought could be improved on with some 26x3" tires - which proved correct. I'm happy with that move, and those tires (Kenda Flame).

The reason I didn't go with the 27.5 tires is regarding the bike's height. I'm plenty tall enough for that, but swinging this 70 year old leg over that rack and seat was a lesson already learned. I sold a 29'er not too long ago due to issues with that AND stand over height. Much happier on a smaller bike, and I can still get plenty of extension. Tough call for me regarding going 27.5 to start with. I really like the look of the 3" tires on the wide rims, and they do pretty good in loose gravel and sand....

That LCD lock, if you were to have an extra LCD handy, all you would have to do is plug it in and you would be gone with full power available. That's if you wanted to take the time to power it up. You could ride it away without power any time. I don't think much of that option. Mostly sales hype as far as I can see it.

As far as the drive train, that's a jump you need to make when considering mid drive. As I've mentioned before, there are big, and very powerful gear driven hub drives available as an option for those wanting that kind of power that are willing/able to get there hands dirty with a conversion. Does that cover it? Sorry if I've missed anything. -Al

No you answered all my questions. Biktrix is not free shipping to people in mainland US(both Biktrix & Rize are Canadian e-bike companies)? I find it very interesting that Micah Toll at Electrek, labels Biktrix as a e-bike distributor(not a e-bike brand). Is Biktrix just rebadging e-bikes made in China? BTW, I would be interested in how your wife will like or not, her upcoming Espin Flow bike.

 

[AHicks]

I think most brands (sold in shops and consumer direct) are ordering Chinese bikes and putting their own names on them. The ones doing more volume, as well as the more expensive ones, are more likely to have spec'd out all the individual components to arrive at price point and quality they want to market the bike with.

She's chompin at the bit for her new bike (a white Flow). The big question I have will be if it's going to make enough power for her after riding my old bike for a few months. I smell another high output (KT) controller at least, and very likely a big motor. Neither of us use big power a lot, but the big grin on her face is hard to hide when she uses 1000w+ of power to cross a road (squirt across!) - even if there's not a car in sight..... She's not foolin me.... -Al

 

[Quick514Biker]

Yes, you're absolutely right. With everything it offers and just the raw power, it's a fantastic deal. Especially for people like you, who can work on their own bikes!

Sorry, I didn't realize until now, you mentioned in another thread a week ago, you already purchased the Priority Current(you're only getting it in January). Now I connected the dots. How much did you pay? And with the Shimano Inter-5E(not Enviola CVT)? It was just mentioned by someone, that Priority is bringing back the Enviola CVT option to the Priority Current.

 

[Achterbahn]

Sorry, I didn't realize until now, you mentioned in another thread a week ago, you already purchased the Priority Current(you're only getting it in January). Now I connected the dots. How much did you pay? And with the Shimano Inter-5E(not Enviola CVT)? It was just mentioned by someone, that Priority is bringing back the Enviola CVT option to the Priority Current.

I was shamefully hiding the fact that I gave in to my impulses, ignored the excellent advice received and ordered one

I paid 2700 for the Shimano version. Priority will bring back the Enviolo Current by mid 2021. No specific date - could be sooner. I unfortunately cannot stand to wait that long. Reviews from people getting the Shimano version have been overall positive. Most aren't experts though, but neither am I.